Infiniti Guru's....Nightmare on Y33 Street!!!

[NightRiderQ45]

Hey. Over the weekend, I had Best Buy install a Viper 771XV alarm/remote start on my car. I car was running perfect prior to install. Before they started, I told them, "if you don't know much about Infiniti's, don't touch my car". They stated they knew what they were doing so I proceeded with the install. I picked up my car Sunday and drove it for about 20 min and my service light came on. I stopped at Advanced to buy me some Regan fuel injector treatment, came back to my car and IT WOULDN'T START!! They told me the sysytem kicked out the code on my second key used for the remote start. Oh, now I'm pissed. I called Best Buy to find me a tow service in the area to flat bed my car back. Of course they paid for it. I left it with them over night so they could take it to Infiniti to have a diagnostic ran on my car Monday.

This is where my nightmare started. I went by Best Buy after work for them to only tell me they took it to Nissan instead of Infiniti. I know Nissan makes Infiniti, but I clearly told them to take it to Infiniti. Once the guy came back with my car, the diagnostics stated: the throttle position sensor, LAN with circuit 1 and LAN with circuit 2?!? Since the Nissan guy isn't an Infiniti Tech, he didn't know what was going on with the LAN issues. He stated that either the ECU is bad or the wires before the ECU is short circuited.

I gladly told Best Buy that I will be taking my car to Infiniti tomorrow to have a diagnostics done. Best Buy will be paying for it. Once I got into my car, my TCS light was on and it wouldn't shut off with the switch, my Slip light was on and my A/C doesn't work. It blows out hot air and it isn't kicking the compressor on. Slip usually comes on once I'm driving on some type of wet surface. It's dry in Oklahoma and my car wasn't moving. I'm not an Infiniti Guru, but I think they fried my car's computer. What do you guy's think.? BTW, once I get all cost estimates, Best Buy will be paying for it through their claims dept once Infiniti states that the bad install caused all of my problems.
Modified by NightRiderQ45 at 9:52 AM 8/16/2007

[AZhitman]

Ouch.

Make sure you keep detailed records of ALL discussions and receipts.

Sounds like possibly the BCM (body control module) AND the ECU might have gotten scorched.

Keep us posted.

[elwesso]

I hardly EVER see sucessful remote installs. Ross (ceningolmo) had a remote start installed on his active Q, and they ended up having to replace the entire steering column because they botched it up so much. With these cars I think i'd rather turn the key myself then have someone botch up the factory wiring.

Weird that the AC stopped working. I wonder if the remote start is supposed to control the AC or something?

The bottom line is you're going to have a bunch of wiring harnesses replaced. Personally I wouldnt want them to splice n' dice it back together, insist on new wiring be put in and start cranking your car up manually!!

[Brokenbc]

You might have been fine if you had gone to a GOOD shop. BB is the WORST place to have mobile electroncis installed. They are idiots. the requirements to get a job there are something like knowing how to install a deck and how to work a screwdriver.

everybody learns their lesson sometime though. hope you get it fixed alright.

[Q451990]

Wow, that sucks... the bad part is that the installer probably knows what he did to fry whatever is fried, but doesn't want to "fess up"

It can absolutely be done, but not by your average splice-n-dice installer. Find a reputable local shop to do the next installation - or better yet have Best Buy pay for someone else to do it right! The remote start is a huge convenience - and does a lot to help me make sure that I let the car warm up properly before driving it.

Heath

[NightRiderQ45]

AZhitman: Yes, I do have all of my receipts, even made the manager sign a document stating that they will pay for the diagnostics from Infiniti. I also have a check off list Best Buy uses to cover their end if problems were already with my car before they started, and my check list stated no problems! Just got off the phone with their claims guy, he stated once I have the diagnostics done and it states that the alarm caused the problem, they will take care of it. The idiot claim guy stated, "hey, this could be caused my mechanical issues". I'm at the office, and I almost cursed him out LOL! I told him there were NO MECHANICAL OR ELECTRICAL ISSUES with my car when I gave it to them. I will speak with Gen Manager tomorrow morning about this horrible experience.

elwesso: No, the remote start doesn't control the A/C unit. It is weird because the A/C was blowing ice cubes before hand and now the compressor will not come on. As far as the wiring, I will request for the Infiniti Tech to put into the estimate for all new wires. Best Buy is footing the bill so that's what I deserve. After this experience, the remote start is out of the picture.

Brokenbc: Best Buy is the worst. They really are idiots. It took everything I had in me not to hit the guy who did the install. I have learned from this experience, trust me.

Q451990: Yes, it would have been great to have that convience, but they screwed that up for me. I'm thinking Best Buy will fire the guy because this problem is about to cost them some big $$$$ for repair.

[Brokenbc]

I'm thinking Best Buy will fire the guy because this problem is about to cost them some big $$$$ for repair.

It'd be good for him... he might go back to high school.

[Jesda]

Man, that stinks! Hope they get you fixed with new OEM parts.

I had remote start done on my '92 but took it to a local, trusted, and recommended shop. They even picked me up from work to come get the car.

[NightRiderQ45]

My Y33 is up and running perfectly! It took more time than expected, but I didn't want to rush the Infiniti techs who were working on my car. I'm happy now because I have a new ECU that will last me another 10 years!!

The next thing that I have to fix is that stubborn left driver's suspension. I'm tired of hearing knocks when I hit a bump in the road. Since Joe sells OEM parts at a cheaper rate (atleast that's what I'm told), do you guys think he sells the suspension cheaper that the dealer which is $500 w/o active suspension?

[maxnix]

Since Joe sells OEM parts at a cheaper rate (atleast that's what I'm told), do you guys think he sells the suspension cheaper that the dealer which is $500 w/o active suspension?

No Active on a FGY33.

Yes, Joe will beat them big time on price and service.

[Q45tech]

Inet dealer's parts department usually give the 20-25% off MSRP independent shop discount to Inet buyers. On heavy things you get to pay the freight.

We purchase $50,000+ monthly in Infiniti parts and don't get a better deal, however they deliver the same day.

[kg03]

I have to chime in on this post about BB..........

I am biased I worked there for 4+ years and my best friend was an installer there. He installed an aftermarket alarm and remote start (DEI products only) and I have not had a problem with it. I regret having to sacrifice the key but it is convenient in these hot summer days. My cars are garaged so the winter isn't a big deal but it is definitely a nice feature.

Some techs are just idiots I do agree but don't kick all of them. Some are more knowledgeable than most techs at Infiniti dealerships. The dealership would bring xm installs and other misc. stuff to these guys all the time without hesitation.

I am sorry that guy jacked your install but don't be put off of the upgrade to remote start because some guy was needing money and said he had installed a couple amps for his friend on his application.

[StarPD]

Wow, that sucks... the bad part is that the installer probably knows what he did to fry whatever is fried, but doesn't want to "fess up"

It can absolutely be done, but not by your average splice-n-dice installer. Find a reputable local shop to do the next installation - or better yet have Best Buy pay for someone else to do it right! The remote start is a huge convenience - and does a lot to help me make sure that I let the car warm up properly before driving it.

Heath

Modern cars are not supposed to be "warmed up" idling. On cold starts only, let it idle for 30 seconds (per the owner's manual), then warm it up by driving it easy until temp gauge comes up to normal. Even then, don't use full throttle or redline it until the oil has stabilized at normal operating temp, usually around 15-20 minutes after startup, depending on ambient temp. On warm starts, 5 or 10 minutes before driving it hard should be sufficient, again, depending on ambient and how long it sat.

Warming the car up from a cold start at idle to fully warm up the interior is not a good idea for this reason.

[NightRiderQ45]

I have to chime in on this post about BB..........

I am biased I worked there for 4+ years and my best friend was an installer there. He installed an aftermarket alarm and remote start (DEI products only) and I have not had a problem with it. I regret having to sacrifice the key but it is convenient in these hot summer days. My cars are garaged so the winter isn't a big deal but it is definitely a nice feature.

Some techs are just idiots I do agree but don't kick all of them. Some are more knowledgeable than most techs at Infiniti dealerships. The dealership would bring xm installs and other misc. stuff to these guys all the time without hesitation.

I am sorry that guy jacked your install but don't be put off of the upgrade to remote start because some guy was needing money and said he had installed a couple amps for his friend on his application.

I understand where you are coming from. The crew that put the alarm in has multiple complaints. I'm suprised that they still work there. The second crew I worked was very efficient. He was upset that the guy put it in badly, and basically re-wired my alarm to clean up the other guy's work. But since my ECU was destroyed, his job didn't fix anything. It is a nice feature that I really wanted, but after this ordeal, I don't think I'm going down that road again.

Manix, StarPD, and Q45Tech: Thanks for the information!! I will call Joe to get a price of the part. Once I purchase the suspension and some brand new rotors, my car will be in tip top shape![

[maxnix]

Modern cars are not supposed to be "warmed up" idling. On cold starts only, let it idle for 30 seconds (per the owner's manual), then warm it up by driving it easy until temp gauge comes up to normal. Even then, don't use full throttle or redline it until the oil has stabilized at normal operating temp, usually around 15-20 minutes after startup, depending on ambient temp. On warm starts, 5 or 10 minutes before driving it hard should be sufficient, again, depending on ambient and how long it sat.

Warming the car up from a cold start at idle to fully warm up the interior is not a good idea for this reason.

Well, how does one reach the conclusion without violating the initial statement?

My answer to the intitial statement would be how long do you want to keep the engine before a major overhaul?

[qship96]

crank it,let it stabilize for 20-30 seconds,drive gently till all fluids warmed is how the wife has driven the MB e420,now with 279,000+ miles on it with average 12k oil changes and engine operates well and uses no oil- I think we are too obsessive with our q`s {myself included} ,theyre not that fragile!!!!

[StarPD]

Well, how does one reach the conclusion without violating the initial statement?

My answer to the intitial statement would be how long do you want to keep the engine before a major overhaul?

Maxnix, you usually give good advice, and I respect that, but in this case, I'm not sure what your question is, or your statement either.

Bottom line is that if one practices good judgement in following makers' suggestions, as well as the time proven methods to ensure longevity, one will as long as good maintenance is also practiced, enjoy a long and satisfying trouble-free engine/driveline life. Those who just don't care or can't be bothered are free to abuse their cars as they see fit. After all, it's their car, and their money. Nevertheless, I stand by my position that excess warming up of a modern car at idle is not good for it, nor is inadequate warming up before running it hard.

While anecdotal, qship96's experience with his MB E420 is an example of how judicious driving practices can result in good trouble-free engine life. I'm not sure I agree with his assessment that Qs are "not that fragile" though. It's not a question of fragility, it's more a question of appreciating the abilities and still observing good sound ownership practices with expensive cars. Driving a car easy for the first few miles after a cold start isn't really that much of a chore, nor is avoiding letting a $60,000 car (no matter how much you paid for it) sit running at idle for long periods to "warm it up".

Either way, members here are, as I've stated, free to treat their cars in whatever manner their budget allows. That means they can do whatever they want to with them I'm just suggesting ways for those who care, to get the best life and satisfaction out of them.

YMMV

[elwesso]

George one thing you have to remember is that not everyone lives in AZ where its fairly warm all year around.. No way in hell im going to let my Q warm up for 30 seconds when its 5F outside....

In the summer when its warm I dont let it warm up as long. I may install a temp sensor in the oil pan so I can see when the oil reaches 100F. Ive heard that oil doesnt really do a good job lubricating until it gets to 100F. Because, of course having the oil at a good operating temperature is FAR more important than having the coolant, at least at a cold startup.

Its just one of those things. In the end it probably doesnt matter too much in temperate regions, but when its cold out its a different story.

[qship96]

keep in mind many,if not most of the q owners on this board bought their q used,many with 100k + on them,old and tired,and have no clue how the previous owner{multiple owners?} treated this issue of startup,and your futile attempts to baby an old,high mile car can never erase the past operating conditions it may have been subjected to

[StarPD]

George one thing you have to remember is that not everyone lives in AZ where its fairly warm all year around.. No way in hell im going to let my Q warm up for 30 seconds when its 5F outside....

In the summer when its warm I dont let it warm up as long. I may install a temp sensor in the oil pan so I can see when the oil reaches 100F. Ive heard that oil doesnt really do a good job lubricating until it gets to 100F. Because, of course having the oil at a good operating temperature is FAR more important than having the coolant, at least at a cold startup.

Its just one of those things. In the end it probably doesnt matter too much in temperate regions, but when its cold out its a different story.

I was born and raised in Chicago. No temperate weather there in winter. I learned the correct procedure for warming cars up when I lived there. I put MANY miles on my cars then, and between warming them up properly and good maintenance, never, ever had mechanical problems, and every car I sold, regardless of how high the mileage was, consumed NO oil and gave compression and leakdown tests as well as oil pressure tests above factory new specs. There were two exceptions, and they were design faults:' 65 425 HP 396 Impala SS had pushrods too small and the ball ends were poorly welded on, the balls kept breaking off. I carried spares and a P&G "Valve Gapper", a dial indicator tool for setting exact valve clearances. The 66 425 HP 427 Corvette had valve springs that were too brittle, and would crack, I kept a shoebox full of springs, the P&G "Valve Gapper", and a spark plug converted to an air chuck to change them on the road if necessary, as well as a cutout valve cover for adjusting valves without spraying oil all over. About every 3,000 miles, I had to change a spring, but neither of these things had any relation to warmup.

For the record, I had no garage, and in winter, had to leave a drop light on my carb(s) under a blanket after removing the air cleaner, and take the battery inside my house at night. I still warmed the cars up for around 30 seconds, then drove off warming them up by driving easy for the first few miles, and no full throttle or redline until 10 miles or so. Yes, it was cold at first, but I was more interested in making my cars last than being toasty right away. It worked. (Side note: All my cars had metallic brakes, and especially in winter, I had to drag the brakes for the first block to warm them up so they would actually stop the car. Otherwise, there was NO brakes at first.)

Now, even though in warmer climate, I still practice the same care, and have never had a mechanical problem, and performance and test results at over 100,000 miles was above factory new specs on every car I've owned even here.

Yes, I'm a fantic, and anal about how I treat my cars, but they last, they perform, and they run like new no matter how high the miles get. Oh yeah, I also get phenomenal fuel mileage too. Last Q, a '94t, got around 20-21 MPG city with A/C on and crummy ethanol gas, 28 to 30 highway at 70 MPH on cruise with A/C on. (A GOOD driver can get better fuel mileage by 1 to 2 mpg more using the foot rather than cruise control). Current '05 Q45 gets around 19 mpg city with A/C on and crummy ethanol gas, around 25 mpg highway with A/C on and on cruise control. And despite reports of poor oil mileage on VK45/F50, I'm getting around 7,000 miles per quart with 5-30 M1 Extended Performance.

[StarPD]

keep in mind many,if not most of the q owners on this board bought their q used,many with 100k + on them,old and tired,and have no clue how the previous owner{multiple owners?} treated this issue of startup,and your futile attempts to baby an old,high mile car can never erase the past operating conditions it may have been subjected to

No argument, but it can help to keep things from getting worse. We don't ignore OCIs just because the previous owner may have, why would we ignore good warmup procedure just becase the PO did?

[qship96]

I understand-it just seems so many people buy old ,tired,high mileage cars and think that babying them at this stage somehow erases the long hard life most have lived.Kind of like putting makeup on a 90 year old woman

[StarPD]

I understand-it just seems so many people buy old ,tired,high mileage cars and think that babying them at this stage somehow erases the long hard life most have lived.Kind of like putting makeup on a 90 year old woman

Ah, but the secret there is to not marry 90 year old women. (Unless they're billionaires and have no other family)

Now say after me: "PLEASE, God!"

[qship96]

and good gums!

[elwesso]

I understand-it just seems so many people buy old ,tired,high mileage cars and think that babying them at this stage somehow erases the long hard life most have lived.Kind of like putting makeup on a 90 year old woman

Point taken... I guess whatever makes you feel the best!!!

[Q45tech]

The E420/430 engine is old school robust and has a much higher oil [8+ quarts] and coolant capacity [14+] than the Q4.5.

Just finished replacing the transmission [our C43 AMG] which failed at 103,000 miles as they all had problems in 1998-2000. So the AT sump and external heat exchanger are not very protective when needle valve bearings explode.

The point is each engine is slightly different and you must develop INDIVIDUAL PROCEEDURES to satisfy its demands.

No fair comparing different engines from different manufactures or classes V6 vs V8 or I4.

[elwesso]

OK tech, humor me. What do you think is required/recommended for the VH motors?

[Q45tech]

Change oil and filter every 90 days with your choice of 10w30 or 40 in summer intervals.

If I lived anywhere North of Georgia I would have installed a oil heater for use when ever the temperature dropped below freezing...........but then again I like my bearings and rings to last 300k.

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/Scien....htmlh ... olk2m.net/

[maxnix]

Just finished replacing the transmission [our C43 AMG] which failed at 103,000 miles as they all had problems in 1998-2000. So the AT sump and external heat exchanger are not very protective when needle valve bearings explode.

Damn, there goes my fantasy about getting a C63 or E63. Keep trying to find something to get me away from a G50, and some factor always fails in comparison, especially when longevity, insurance, depreciation and maintenance is factored in. Being alittle faster to 60 or a mile or two more per gallon is not compelling at $50K+. And build quality is usually not quite as good.

Operating temperature is....operating temperature, not something below it. No matter how easy you drive the car below operating temperature, you are getting increased wear, especially if the car is not all synthetics and/or it is below 50° F ambient. The increase in wear may be minimal.

I prefer to wait that extra two to three minutes to achieve operating temperature and take the hit in gas mileage.

Big difference between Seattle and Austin in warm up times, though.

[StarPD]

Damn, there goes my fantasy about getting a C63 or E63. Keep trying to find something to get me away from a G50, and some factor always fails in comparison, especially when longevity, insurance, depreciation and maintenance is factored in. Being alittle faster to 60 or a mile or two more per gallon is not compelling at $50K+. And build quality is usually not quite as good.

Operating temperature is....operating temperature, not something below it. No matter how easy you drive the car below operating temperature, you are getting increased wear, especially if the car is not all synthetics and/or it is below 50° F ambient. The increase in wear may be minimal.

I prefer to wait that extra two to three minutes to achieve operating temperature and take the hit in gas mileage.

Big difference between Seattle and Austin in warm up times, though.

You aer right, Maxnix. I agree with all three positions.