Infiniti Black Sport - Finally a Japanese M-Badge?

[RicerX]

We will have to wait for Geneva to find out.

http://www.automotiveworld.com/news-rel ... odel-line/

Looks like what some of us were suspicious of happening with the whole "silver sport, red sport".

If this materializes into a twin turbo Q50 with a man pedal plus a limited slip diff, it will be the first car I ever order. Literally take my money. However, I'm still cautiously optimistic here. They have all the tools to do it, but have lacked the execution thus far. A 500hp Q50 (hell even a 400hp one) with proper tires, diff, and modest suspension upgrades from what they currently have (it really doesn't need much) can hang with an M3 (as long as they use the right steering setup).

This is me holding my breath for Geneva.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I bet you a $5er it doesn't make it to production.

[Bubba1]

I agree for 2 reasons 1. Infiniti teased about simply stuffing a GT-R motor into an Infiniti (Eau Rogue), and called it the next big thing. Uh, bzzzzt. and 2. when I see the words "Renault" and "Alliance" in the same sentence, I picture this atrocity...

[float_6969]

I have so little faith in them to build anything truly exciting outside of the GTR and Z34, that I won't hold my breath. I've been disappointed too many times over the last 10 years to really even care any more. They're the new Toyota IMHO. Just another bland-mobile factory.

[lne937s]

Here is the release:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/infin ... t-black-s/
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-c ... artnership

It's a 500hp Hybrid Q60 with the Red Sport's 400hp engine and an additional 100hp from the hybrid system.

[float_6969]

The key sentence in that article is the part where it says it's not guaranteed for production. Infiniti seems to like to build one-off exciting cars and then never sell them.

[lne937s]

I think this may be something with potential. Chances are they are building a new hybrid system to go along with the new turbo engine anyway for markets where it is favored (like Japan). Slap it on the red sport, and it could make production. Design may be toned down a little, but Nissan has been closer than many others lately in the transition from concept to production (see Gen 5 Micra, Murano, Maxima, etc.).

[RicerX]

I would really like to see this thing make it to production.

I would also really like to see a manual transmission in a Red Sport grade vehicle, however, I think it's time for me to just let it go, especially after the announcement BMW made about dropping manual transmissions in all except its M cars.

When you have a generation coming into the market that isn't even interested in driving coupled with the trend towards autonomy, it makes for a tough case for building manuals anymore. Sad times in which we live in that regard.

[lne937s]

I think it goes beyond that. In Europe, where everyone grew up driving them, manuals don't have the same macho "man pedal" appeal... grandmas drive them. The top racing series doesn't use manual transmissions. Economy cars still have manuals (the new Micra launched manual-only in Europe). But if the DSG or whatever is faster and more efficient, high-end cars in Europe are less likely to be have a manual transmission.

[Bubba1]

Yep, I agree, if you're talking ERS and other excessive technology, I'll bet a flappy paddle transmission would be its only choice. Infiniti has cried wolf a few times with performance models, so the skeptical feelings are deserved. Perhaps they'll surprise us.

[MinisterofDOOM]

There's not a number large enough to quantify my skepticism here. I fully expect this ultra-hot Q50 to slot in somewhere near the highest tier of non-performance models from every other brand and not have any of the defining sport ingredients that separate an M3 from a 340i or a C63 from a C450 or an RS4 from an A4. Nissan has proven repeatedly that they don't even realize that gap exists, never mind what it would take to bridge it.

Even AMG, who basically just cram as much engine as they can fit into any car they can find, at least understands the fundamentals of making sure the car is up to the task. I don't think Nissan has that understanding.

I also have zero interest in an ERS system in anything that's not a hypercar or an economy car. In an "average" performance car, it merely adds complexity. If you're not talking about combined power output in excess of 900hp, it's just a gimmick and a tradeoff. Get it out of here. You want to put ERS in something, build a new GTR that's worthy of the comical prices they're charging for the car these days, or build a Volt-fighter. Don't put it in your M3 wannabe.
I also like the claim that ERS doesn't exist in a current road car. Hi, let me introduce you to McLaren, Ferrari, and Porsche. Yes, these guys are real automakers and they've been doing what you're trying to pretend you understand here for years.

Basically, Infiniti is a little league team telling us they're going to win the World Series. Why I even wasted the effort to make fun of them is something I can't explain.

[Jesda]

You say Cadillac or Lincoln and people think of large, comfortable, ornate cars (and some real hunks of trash from the 1980s).
You say Mercedes-Benz and the S-class and SL immediately come to mind.
Audi and BMW bring to mind performance and the mythical idea of German engineering, a concept that often exceeds reality.
Infiniti evokes no thoughts, feelings, or ideas at all, positive or negative. Genesis, also lacking an identity, has already exceeded Infiniti in engineering and opulence.

Infiniti is a brand with no values, no evocative qualities, no story, and no purpose. Even Mitsubishi has a more interesting story.

Maybe Carlos Ghosn was right. Infiniti should have died.

[Bubba1]

Since Mr. Ghosn has not directed the mother shipn to spend real money on Infiniti development for several years other than renaming the entire lineup similar to Audi , it should be no surprise that the brand has languished. Ghosn set the division up for failure, so I'm not sure I'd suggest he was right about anything. I see it more as an intrnally blown opportunity.

[RicerX]

Well guys... it's headed for production.

http://www.carplanet.org/blog/post/infi ... tion-bound

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1109 ... -c63-coupe

[Jesda]

If it's interesting and fun to drive and requires more than $5 of investment, Nissan won't build it.

[Jesda]

Well guys... it's headed for production.

http://www.carplanet.org/blog/post/infi ... tion-bound

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1109 ... -c63-coupe

I'll believe it when it appears on dealer lots.

Nissan blows.

[RicerX]

Well guys... it's headed for production.

http://www.carplanet.org/blog/post/infi ... tion-bound

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1109 ... -c63-coupe

I'll believe it when it appears on dealer lots.

Nissan blows.

I'm in agreement with you, but I found an interesting quote from Roland Kruger in one of those articles above regarding the Eau Rogue - something along the lines of "If the current management team was in place while that car was tossed around, it would never have been canceled."

I find some optimism in that, but at the same time, they could have brought it back when they came on board. I can foresee them going a better path than the Eau Rogue - the VR30DDTT has a fantastic foundation to be built into an Eau Rogue type car.

We'll see what happens. But the one thing Infiniti has always been missing is a halo car of its own. This Black S could be their M3. They need it. I hope it happens.

[float_6969]

I hope it happens as well. Maybe this is the beginning of Nissan/Infiniti trying to fix how boring they've become. Maybe that's why things seem to have been so silent from them regarding their exciting vehicles? Like, maybe the new management is in the process, which would obviously take time. I do have to say, the newest Infiniti lineup are a bunch of really pretty good looking cars in person. Better than most of what is coming out of Japan right now, at least IMHO. If they could put something truly exciting under that skin, it could be the beginning of turning their current image around.

[centralcoaster33]

If Nissan makes these cars, will they only have hybrid engine/ motors to choose from? Do the BMW M cars have hybrid options? Is this apples to oranges or are hybrid engines basically considered to be in the same basket as gas engines these days?

[float_6969]

The hybrids in the performance cars (Most of the Hypercars have them now) work more like the KERS system in F1 cars. I would imagine this system would be similar.

[RED_DET]

So they are going to build this and have AMS Alpha series Q's as well???

[RicerX]

So they are going to build this and have AMS Alpha series Q's as well???

I'm not entirely sure that there isn't crosstalk between the AMS stuff and this Black S model Q60. More to come, I guess?

I'm REALLY excited about AMS's involvement in the Red Sport models. Can't wait to see what ends up happening.

[RicerX]

I hope it happens as well. Maybe this is the beginning of Nissan/Infiniti trying to fix how boring they've become. Maybe that's why things seem to have been so silent from them regarding their exciting vehicles? Like, maybe the new management is in the process, which would obviously take time. I do have to say, the newest Infiniti lineup are a bunch of really pretty good looking cars in person. Better than most of what is coming out of Japan right now, at least IMHO. If they could put something truly exciting under that skin, it could be the beginning of turning their current image around.

What I really think is happening is Nissan will shift any go-fast goodies/cars more to the Infiniti brand, as I see the industry eventually shifting driving-experience-focused vehicles to premium brands while letting volume brands handle the utilitarian (and eventually autonomous) vehicles entirely.

Infiniti as a brand has a serious need for something like this to establish their identity - that identity I'm seeing as a performance-technology-focused premium brand. The Black S with a KERS system really does just that, and it's something that no other premium brand is delving into (except Porsche, but I don't lump them into the same basket as a BMW or Audi).

I truly see this as an exciting time for Infiniti. I finally drove a Red Sport Q50 (sans DAS) the other day and immediately wanted one. There are a ton of minor refinements that make the car as a whole a great step over my 3.7 Q50S.

[centralcoaster33]

After seeing a Lexus RC 350 F type the other day, it made me think of this car. Maybe they'd compete with each other. The Lexus, like the BMW, is also not a hybrid though. Maybe the sport fun is shifting to the luxury markets. I'm still looking for the next economy car sleeper. Something cheap and light that handles great and isn't marketed towards the sport crowd but instead gets discovered like 20 years later, like a Civic, 240, or Corolla. But I do like day dreaming about sports cars that were intended to be sports cars from inception.

[lne937s]

Between the Variable Compression Turbo coming out soon and the VR engines, Infiniti engines are looking pretty good. Hope they make it to some Nissan products soon.