Indiana's Voter-identification requirements

[audtatious]

So, Indiana forces you to show proper identification before you vote. This is absolutely the way it works. In fact, they ask for identification and then make sure the address is correct on the ID and that you are at the proper voting location. If you are not on their list then you either have to go to the proper voting location or you can cast a provisional ballot which only counts if you show up at the court house within 10 days to show your photo ID.

What's wrong with that? Sounds smart.

Of course, as some may know, it was argued up to the Supreme Court and on Monday they voted 6-3 that is was NOT unconstitutional. ACLU is up in arms as are many Democrats (Sen. Charles Schumer, New York Democrat, complained that it was "a body blow to what America stands for — equal access to the polls.").

What is the problem? Unless you want dead people voting or felons or illegals then it makes perfect sense. Can anyone who is against this give me your viewpoint?

[rn79870]

I think felons are allowed to vote, maybe there is some restrictions, but in general, they can vote. (not obviously while in the can)

The problem with this (according to the bleeding heart crew) is that it penalizes poor people. Apparently poor people don't know how to acquire state ID cards, or drivers licenses.

By factoring the poor people out of the voting process, you end up with disproportionally more republicans. Hillary loses more of her power base.I'm having a hard time seeing the down side of this.

And even California requires you to prove you are who you say you are in order to vote.

[ArizonaG35]

Matt, there is NOTHING wrong with this. This should have been a law in all states years ago! Arizona (being a border state) adopted such a law a while back and I completely agree with it. Afterall, there has been enough voting controversy over the last few decades with dead people, illegals and the like casting votes when they have NO right to do so. Afterall, if you gather enough illegal mexicans to go vote for your "Candidate of change" then they could seriously sway an election to get their left wing candidate of choice in office.

Ironically, the ACLU seems to defend those who don't think they have to PROVE they are American.... shouldn't they change their name to the

A.W.D.T.T.R.A.T.T.UAmericans Who Don't Think The Rules Apply To Them Union

I say, If you can't verify who you are then you have NO right to vote!

I think that some of this Indiana law may have stemmed from the outspoken Representative Julia Carson from the 7th District in Indiana. Rep. Carson has now passed away (Ding dong the witch is dead!) but in her day she would regularly hire buses to drive to the hood and pick up her poor black constituents, feed them, then drive them to the polling locations to vote for her, then return them home. This should also be illegal!

Dave

[sensibleS13driver]

It's the fact that ID's aren't free that makes it controversial. It hints at poll tax and unfair burdens. Making the ID's free to low income voters is fine by me.

There's no protected class at stake, so is eliminating potential voter fraud a rational state interest? Absolutely.

[AZhitman]

^ Agreed.

Take whatever money the ACLU doesn't pay in taxes and apply it to making identification documents free for everyone.

Problem solved.

I'd support a full-scale ban on cable TV, cigarettes, soda, alcohol, internet access, designer clothing and p0rn for anyone claiming eligibility for welfare, or claiming they can't afford a driver's license or state-issued ID.

[ArizonaG35]

I think felons are allowed to vote, maybe there is some restrictions, but in general, they can vote. (not obviously while in the can)

The problem with this (according to the bleeding heart crew) is that it penalizes poor people. Apparently poor people don't know how to acquire state ID cards, or drivers licenses.

By factoring the poor people out of the voting process, you end up with disproportionally more republicans. Hillary loses more of her power base.I'm having a hard time seeing the down side of this.

And even California requires you to prove you are who you say you are in order to vote.

Bob,I don't think felons are allowed to vote... I'm not 100% about this, but I'm pretty sure their right to vote is removed when convicted of a felony... I'll check it out.

As far as the poor not having ID cards... If the poor have enough intelligence to drag their sorry A$$ down to the welfare office and collect their food stamps and welfare checks, then they have enough intelligence to wait in line at the DMV like the rest of us! Maybe if the poor spent a little less time getting pregnant and collecting rusted out Monte Carlos on their lawn, then they'd have enough time to get proper identification! If the poor can collect our handouts, then they need to follow our rules and get I.D!

If you feel that by factoring out poor people by "Discriminating" against those who don't have identification will put more republicans in office, That's how our system works... If the poor, minority, under privelaged can't figure out how to Get an ID and cast their vote, then their voice doesn't count! I'm sick of being made to feel bad for those who can't figure out the basics of life on their own! Survival of the fittest baby!

If you can't learn how to go to the DMV and get an ID then go vote for your "candidate of change" then you're cause is worthless!

I'm mostly speaking to the "Collective" you Bob, so don't take too much of this personal.

Dave

[audtatious]

Actually, I believe Bob is "in line" with our thinking on this subject....

Felons in Maine and Vermont can actually vote from prison. 10 states have lifetime voting bans for felons.

[ArizonaG35]

Actually, I believe Bob is "in line" with our thinking on this subject....

I know, I'm so excited! That's why I keep throwing uber conservative views at him... I'm systematically trying to show him the light! I think that everyday we are getting Bob to lean more and more to the right by showing him the truth. If you look back to his original posts, he was about as far to the left as you can get, but he's slowly coming our way!

I like Bob, I think one day he'll make a great republican!

[audtatious]

More like a Reagan Democrat

[AZhitman]

Every NY resident of voting age needs to make sure Schumer is run out of office at the earliest possible opportunity.

Crackhead.

[Cold_Zero]

I think felons are allowed to vote, maybe there is some restrictions, but in general, they can vote. (not obviously while in the can)

Felons convicted of a crime, while they are in jail are not allowed to vote. After they have served their time, they can get an ID card so that they can vote.

I feel very passionate about this new law. Maybe because in my Congressional District the Dems bus people all around, feed them and tell them who to vote for 'Julia Carson' now 'Andre Carson' to control power. I love the fact that I have to present my Government Issue ID card and that the poll workers check my information before I vote. This makes me feel that my vote counts and is not watered down by fraud.

I have registered twice since this happened, but when I loved in Carmel Indiana, I was on three sets of voting registers in different precincts. Which meant I could vote three times around the the city of Carmel. About 7 years ago Indiana went through and purged people off the voting registers to correct this problem. There were dead people and people that had moved on old registers.

The problem with this (according to the bleeding heart crew) is that it penalizes poor people. Apparently poor people don't know how to acquire state ID cards, or drivers licenses.

By factoring the poor people out of the voting process, you end up with disproportionally more republicans. Hillary loses more of her power base.I'm having a hard time seeing the down side of this.

The Great State of Indiana has already thought about this:http://www.in.gov/bmv/4578.htm

To obtain a free identification card for voting purposes, you must visit a license branch with sufficient documentation and state that you need a free identification card for voting purposes. Please note that all license branches will be open for extended hours on Monday and Tuesday, May 5 and 6, 2008, to provide voters with acceptable photo identification.

There you go NO ONE can claim that they can't get a FREE government issue ID card. To be honest leading up to primaries and elections the BMV offices open early and stay open late, so that no one has an excuse. I dont mind paying for free ID cards so that poor people can vote. I dont mind at all, I am just glad that part of my taxes go to help people exercise their freedoms. bud

[ArizonaG35]

It's the fact that ID's aren't free that makes it controversial. It hints at poll tax and unfair burdens. Making the ID's free to low income voters is fine by me.

It all starts with Free I.D cards... next thing you know...

Okay, since we are providing free identification to the underprivelaged then why don't we also make public transportation free to the underprivelaged as well on election day's. And while we're at it, we need to feed the underprivelaged when they go vote so I say we give them FREE double cheeseburger vouchers at McDonalds on election day. Now that we've covered FREE Identification, FREE transportation, and a FREE meal, we need to provide the underprivelaged with day care for their 6 illegitimate children while they go vote, so we need to arrange for all child protective service workers to watch the little basturds while "free ridin' frita" goes to vote for her candidate of change!

My question is: Why is it "Controversial" that the I.D cards aren't free? Where was my free I.D card? Where was my free transportation? Where was my free lunch? It wasn't there because I was told by my parents that if I wanted to drive, then I would have to pay for my drivers test, Pay for my Drivers License, Pay for my Insurance, Pay for my first car, Pay for the gas to go into my first car... Pay for my meals... I busted my A$$ to scrimp and save every penny to earn that privelage. This is how real life works... government handouts will get you no where! If we start to give them free I.D cards, then all they'll do is ask for more free stuff.

[sensibleS13driver]

I think these selections pretty well sum up both sides of the issue.

Majority "Petitioners ask this Court, in effect, to perform a unique balancing analysis that looks specifically at a small number of voters who may experience a special burden under the statute and weighs their burdens against the State's broad interests in protecting election integrity. Petitioners urge us to ask whether the State's interests justify the burden imposed on voters who cannot afford or obtain a birth certificate and who must make a second trip to the circuit court clerk's office after voting. But on the basis of the evidence in the record it is not possible to quantify either the magnitude of the burden on this narrow class of voters or the portion of the burden imposed on them that is fully justified."

Concurring"A voter complaining about such a law's effect on him has no valid equal-protection claim because, without proof of discriminatory intent, a generally applicable law with disparate impact is not unconstitutional ... The Fourteenth Amendment does not regard neutral laws as invidious ones, even when their burdens purportedly fall disproportionately on a protected class. A fortiori it does not do so when, as here, the classes complaining of disparate impact are not even protected."

Dissent"The need to travel to a BMV branch will affect voters according to their circumstances, with the average person probably viewing it as nothing more than an inconvenience. Poor, old, and disabled voters who do not drive a car, however, may find the trip prohibitive,4 witness the fact that the BMV has far fewer license branches in each county than there are voting precincts. Marion County, for example, has over 900 active voting precincts yet only 12 BMV license branches ... The burden of traveling to a more distant BMV office rather than a conveniently located polling place is probably serious for many of the individuals who lack photo identification. They almost certainly will not own cars, and public transportation in Indiana is fairly limited."

"For one thing, an Indiana nondriver, most likely to be poor, elderly, or disabled, will find it difficult and expensive to travel to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, particularly if he or she resides in one of the many Indiana counties lacking a public transportation system. (noting that out of Indiana's 92 counties, 21 have no public transportation system at all and 32 others restrict public transportation to regional county service). For another, many of these individuals may be uncertain about how to obtain the underlying documentation, usually a passport or a birth certificate, upon which the statute insists. And some may find the costs associated with these documents unduly burdensome (up to $12 for a copy of a birth certificate; up to $100 for a passport). By way of comparison, this Court previously found unconstitutionally burdensome a poll tax of $1.50"

[AZhitman]

<rubs chin>

Hmmmm...

Folks, the man is convincing!

We grow 'em smart out here in Arizona!

[sensibleS13driver]

Something that is required for voting should absolutely be free, period. Unlike transportation and, arguably, double-cheeseburgers, voting is a constitutional right. A fee is a deterrent, no matter how small.

[ArizonaG35]

Okay Sensible, under your "constitutional rights" phrase then since I have a constitutional right to bear arms, then the government should re-imburse me for my gun purchases... and since we have a constitutional right to free speech, then we should all get government issued bullhorns... and since the 21st amendment is in effect, I propose that the government should foot my bar tab!... GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Just because we are a Free country does not mean we are a $FREE$ country.

I'll admit that the double cheeseburger argument was a stretch... I was just hungry. I'm just playing devil's advocate so don't get offended by this.

[AZhitman]

By sensible's logic, fishing licenses, concealed carry permits, driver's licenses, school lunches, hunting licenses, transportation to / from the voting booth... should all be free.

I see where he's coming from, I just don't think you can legislate good sense.

Clothing is required at the polling place, but no one's gonna buy you something to wear just so you can vote.

[sensibleS13driver]

I would say, show me the precedent.

I totally agree with the ruling. It's a great precedent to have in place.

But I say, drag your poor disabled naked elderly photo identified self to the polls and damn it you can vote for free.

[rn79870]

I know, I'm so excited! That's why I keep throwing uber conservative views at him... I'm systematically trying to show him the light! I think that everyday we are getting Bob to lean more and more to the right by showing him the truth. If you look back to his original posts, he was about as far to the left as you can get, but he's slowly coming our way!

I like Bob, I think one day he'll make a great republican!

What is actually happening is that I've started to shift Matt and Greg to the left. An illusion of me appearing to leaning right occurs at the same time. It's but an illusion. From your comment, I've apparently caught you in this web too. I won't continue this to the point that any of you become becoming Clinton supporters, but you'll be worshipping CARB before I'm done...

Oh, don't tell Greg and Matt, I want this to be a surprise to for them.

[AZhitman]

But I say, drag your poor disabled naked elderly photo identified self to the polls and damn it you can vote for free.

[Cold_Zero]

My question is: Why is it "Controversial" that the I.D cards aren't free? Where was my free I.D card? Where was my free transportation? Where was my free lunch?

Shall I call the Carson campaign and schedule them to pick you up? Remember, this is just like the mob, once they do you a favor, they have you.

[ArizonaG35]

Quote from Bob:"I've apparently caught you in this web too"

Oh no, it's a trap... RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

[audtatious]

Oh, don't tell Greg and Matt, I want this to be a surprise to for them.

Funniest thing I have seen today. I seem to be moving more right than left

As Sensible says, this sets a great precedence. Out of those who vote, what is the percentage of old who do not have any form of ID? It's probably a small number and something could be setup for them to be able to get appropriate ID in order to vote (and I'm sure something is in place already) and I highly doubt the vast majority of them have nobody available to take them anywhere. For those playing the "poor" card, then I say tough shat. As stated before, if they can get out to get their food stamps then they sure could get out and vote if they wanted to. Sounds like another piss-poor excuse to blame society for their woes.

[Cold_Zero]

By sensible's logic, fishing licenses, concealed carry permits, driver's licenses, school lunches, hunting licenses, transportation to / from the voting booth... should all be free.

I see where he's coming from, I just don't think you can legislate good sense.

Clothing is required at the polling place, but no one's gonna buy you something to wear just so you can vote.

Not to mention that in order to open a bank account or travel on an airplane, you need government issue identification. And if you enroll your kids in school you need much more proof of identification for your kid than what the BMV requires.

[Armelius]

There was a time when people didn't have photo ID and any identification and they were allowed to vote.

What is wrong with that?

If you are going to have legislation that will affect everyone shouldn't everyone be allowed to vote?

[OriginalWheelman]

Every NY resident of voting age needs to make sure Schumer is run out of office at the earliest possible opportunity.

Crackhead.

I'm trying.

[Cold_Zero]

There was a time when people didn't have photo ID and any identification and they were allowed to vote. What is wrong with that?

And there was a time, not to long ago before Todd Rokita took office that I could vote in 4 precincts in Indiana. Dead people and people who had moved out of Indiana were still on the voter books. I could walk in and vote in the place of people even though I was not them. The people of Indiana wanted to bring the voting process up to the 21st Century. To make sure their votes would not be diluted by fraudulent votes or multiple votes. Most Hoosiers have no problem presenting a Government Issue ID card, or casting a provisional ballot until the identity of the voter can be determined. No one is disenfranchised or kept from voting. And to be honest, coming up with a Government Issue ID card is not that hard for 99% of Hoosiers in 2008.

Quote »If you are going to have legislation that will affect everyone shouldn't everyone be allowed to vote? [/quote]Everyone is allowed to vote in Indiana as long as they meet the registration criteria for voter eligibility. The Legislature, the Secretary of State and the State Attorney General, all worked together to make sure that people who wanted to vote, can! Each election and primary period, commercials (PSA) are run in Print, Radio and Television to inform voters that they need to have Government Issue ID. The PSAs also inform them of where they can obtain Government Issue Identification, the operating hours of the BMV and that an ID card from the BMV is free (http://www.in.gov/bmv/3210.htm).

They even extend the BMV hours to align with the polling hours in the State so that people who need to obtain a free government issued ID card can obtain one and vote.

To be honest, even though people have tried (and come up with some lame excuses for repealing the law), I can find no fault with Indiana's system and apparently the SCOTUS could find not fault either.

[Armelius]

Let me ask you if a US passport can be used for voting purposes?

[Cold_Zero]

Why wouldn't it?

Indiana law requires residents to present a government-issued photo identification before casting a ballot at the polls on Election Day. Your photo identification must meet all of the following four criteria to be acceptable for voting purposes:

Display your photo; AND Display your name, and the name must conform to your voter registration record; AND Display an expiration date and either be current or have expired sometime after the date of the last General Election (November 7, 2006); AND Be issued by the State of Indiana or the U.S. government.

[szh]

Let me ask you if a US passport can be used for voting purposes?

Yes, it can.

It is a Federal identification "document", as opposed to a Driver's license, which is a State identification "document". In both cases, they are legal government ID's and cannot be refused in polling stations.

Z