IN THIS THREAD I AM GENERAL MOTORS

[Jesda]

GOT A VISA BILL
PAID IT WITH MASTERCARD
DEBT FREE!





Anyone who has seen the latest ads with Ed Whitacre knows what I'm talking about. Pathetic and dishonest.

[MellowZ32]

[AppleBonker]

Anyone who has seen the latest ads with Ed Whitacre knows what I'm talking about. Pathetic and dishonest.

In this country to don't seem to be doing it right if you're honest. What I find comical is that the vast majority of US citizens will probably accept this at face-value. It's amazing how gullible people are and don't question advertisements.

[RCA]

Can some one explain what happened?
I have seen the commercials but my question is how did GM transfer debt?

[Jesda]

http://reason.com/blog/weekly/2010-04-18

[Infinitiguy19]

I would take GM over Ford, Toyota, Dodge and Hyundai.

[Jesda]

I would take GM... and drown it in the lake. All that design and engineering talent is being wasted under crap management. Bob lutz is the man responsible for letting good ideas move forward despite layers of bureaucracy and second guessing. He's retiring soon and once he's gone, GM will be back to churning out Cavaliers and Luminas.

You know the C5 Corvette was supposed to come out in 1994? The design was finished but company sat on it for three years twiddling their thumbs.

Cadillac mostly functioned somewhat independently, except for that awkward B-O-C phase.

[Mr1der]

that still doesn't forgive them for the Cimarron.

[Jesda]

I'm particularly pissed about it because I just finished a report on Saturn. The cars were average but the supply chain innovations were brilliant. Saturn dealers pooled parts inventories locally to increase turnaround times and improve repair accuracy (fixed right first time). They reported inventories to spring hill each night for automatic replenishment. Dealers didn't have to stock as much and cars got fixed. In 1999 Saturn was number one for dealer service quality and loyalty. The saturn SC and L200 were among the lexus LS400 and infiniti qx4 for highest parts availability.

So what did GM do with this success? Did it apply it to its other divisions? NOPE. They turned saturn into another oldsmobile. f*** s*** management. I thought things were changing, but I was wrong. Only the cars got better.

[Mr1der]

well, that's a start.

I'm looking forward to see what Ford does in the coming years.

and if we'll ever see teh Focus RS...and if the Fiesta will come over and be a Fit killer.

[bundy26]

Looks good to me.

[MinisterofDOOM]

That Focus is FUGLY. FUGLY. FUGLY. The proportions are just awful. The details are awful, too. It's really busy without accomplishing anything in particular aesthetically. It's just a mess of stuff and lines. The hindquarters are especially terrible. Bring the tail lights and rear beltline down about four feet and it'll look normal. Right now it looks like the automobile equivalent of Steve Urkel.

Ed Whitacre's just another career bureaucrat who has no business being behind the wheel of a car company.

As for Cadillac, they've pulled a typical GM move: the STS didn't work out as they hoped, so instead of FIXING WHAT WAS WRONG they just take the whole drawing board and burn it. Then they reinvent the wheel because they don't understand how to refine a product. The STS/DTS replacement will be a short-nosed Taurus-proportioned front-driver.
When GM hits the mark the first time the results can be astounding. But when they miss the mark, even by a tiny bit, they seem to get lost. It takes them years to react if they do at all, and then much of the time they end up killing off products just as they get the wrinkles ironed out.

[Mr1der]

it looks like a Civic violated a Prius and VW's Fast dolls..

[bundy26]

it looks like a Civic violated a Prius and VW's Fast dolls..

[Chaotic_Warlord]

GOT A VISA BILL
PAID IT WITH MASTERCARD
DEBT FREE!

No if you were GM you would have paid your Visa Bill with a Discover Card and then floated that bill to a Government Grant then claim it all back on your taxes next year.

As afar as the current trend of car companies are concerned they've all just pretty much given up and forgotten who their primary market is, they spent so many years catering to the baby boomers and sucking on the cocks of the of government constituents that they have no idea what a fun exciting car is supposed to be anymore. Forget aesthetics, when was the last time you took any of these newer model cars out for a proper test drive and thought to yourself that it was a fun experience that you wouldn't mind having on a regular basis for the measly cost of 5 years of debt and an insurance rate that would choke a whale. Seriously, it's all technological and cold and everyone is going for the whole bubble on wheels that won't allow you to actually drive it the way it's supposed to. Honestly, driving these new cars is like sitting on your laptop strapped to some fat bastards turds as it flushes down the toilet. They've taken away the manual gearbox because a computer controlled transmission driven by rubber bands can shift faster, but they give you the flappy paddles or the semi-auto shifter so that you can think you're actually controlling the shifts. They've made ABS, TCS, STB,, STD, and PIIHB standard an everything so you have absolutely no feel of what your car is doing, yeah some cars you can turn this stuff off, but once you start putting it on the edge something in the ECU turns it back on so you don't crash, which in turn makes you crash. They took away the FR power train and made cars that once were FR in FF which has gutted them of life and excitement, the few FR cars that are still around are either no fun to drive or to damned expensive for anyone to ever own unless you make serious money, which no one does anymore.

Don't even get me started on the whole crossover platform thing, or the fact that it's impossible to buy a car anymore and not only purposely get lost but also you have your position tracked by people you don't even know who at the any point in time can do anything they want to your car remotely. It's all gay and to top it all off their is no such thing as an entry priced market anymore, for the cost of an entry level car you can get something older and better, how the hell does that help anyone except the used car salesman and the loan companies b/c while you could buy that new entry model car that has no life, no bells, no whistles for a much lower interest rate which helps keep the car companies afloat, your bank account happy, and your credit score in good standing, it's just a better bargain to go buy something a couple years older from Joe Blow that has power, performance and all the bells and whistles for just a little bit more and a massive hike in the interest rate. Meh, I'll stick to buying 10-15 y/o cars that are fun to drive, aren't computer controlled, are exempt from all these new emissions and safety standards, and have a much cheaper aftermarket and OEM parts catalog.

/Rant

[seang]

and once he's gone, GM will be back to churning out Cavaliers and Luminas.

Seemingly unimportant decisions by GM are like a guy who wears sweatpants everywhere--pathetic. Although I do like LTZ 3.8 Luminas, V6 Z24 Cavaliers, HO 5sp Quad4 anything, and select others.

[Dattebayo]

My question is only this: Why do we care so much about GM?

[Jesda]

Should be pretty obvious. 100 years of manufacturing history, cultural significance, millions of stakeholders of all varieties, and they're using the income you earned and paid to the government to remain in business.

[RCA]

they're using the income you earned and paid to the government to remain in business.

This is the one that makes me worry. They are using your money to stay afloat. All the money we spent during this collapse will be coming out of our pockets. The hole we are in now, I am so ready to pay taxes out the a*s.

Also Jesda the link you posted didn't have info on this, but I searched and found it. I hope they get chewed out by FCC for false ads. What makes them think they can claim they payed off TARP when they did so with more TARP...

Are the funds TARP monies or monies from other lenders not classified as "TARP"?

[Chaotic_Warlord]

This is the one that makes me worry. They are using your money to stay afloat. All the money we spent during this collapse will be coming out of our pockets. The hole we are in now, I am so ready to pay taxes out the a*s.

Rich, you live in New Jersey, you're already paying taxes out the a**, they tax you just to breath.

[Bubba1]

I'm particularly pissed about it because I just finished a report on Saturn. The cars were average but the supply chain innovations were brilliant. Saturn dealers pooled parts inventories locally to increase turnaround times and improve repair accuracy (fixed right first time). They reported inventories to spring hill each night for automatic replenishment. Dealers didn't have to stock as much and cars got fixed. In 1999 Saturn was number one for dealer service quality and loyalty. The saturn SC and L200 were among the lexus LS400 and infiniti qx4 for highest parts availability.

So what did GM do with this success? Did it apply it to its other divisions? NOPE. They turned saturn into another oldsmobile. f*** s*** management. I thought things were changing, but I was wrong. Only the cars got better.

There was a great article in Automobile (I think) awhile back about how revolutionary Saturn could have been for GM but was sandbagged by literally everyone within GM not directly involved with it. Arrogant, stupid, and ignorant are good words to describe GM's handling of Saturn.

[tigersharkdude]

You know the C5 Corvette was supposed to come out in 1994? The design was finished but company sat on it for three years twiddling their thumbs.

IIRC the C5 was first introduced in 94 but design changes and safety changes caused a delay in release. Just like in 83, which resulted in there not being one that year

[RCA]

Rich, you live in New Jersey, you're already paying taxes out the a**, they tax you just to breath.

Well we have low taxes on gas
But what I meant was this...
People always hate raising taxes, but I know we need to raise them to help get out of this mess.
So what I am saying is that we as a nation should get ready for a serious tax increases.
Treat marijuana like alcohol, cut defense spending and utilized consumption taxes.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Rich, you live in New Jersey, you're already paying taxes out the a**, they tax you just to breath.

Well we have low taxes on gas
But what I meant was this...
People always hate raising taxes, but I know we need to raise them to help get out of this mess.
So what I am saying is that we as a nation should get ready for a serious tax increases.
Treat marijuana like alcohol, cut defense spending and utilized consumption taxes.

Not a fan, the legalization of Marijuana, no matter what financial gains the government will see from them is just asking for trouble. As far as defense spending goes, I don't have a problem where it's at but them I'm a war mongering military brat who served in the Army as is seriously considering going back in after a 10 year vacation. Consumption taxes won't do any good except piss everyone off and result into less spending, which in turn while helping the average Joe save money, will kill business' because people won't be buying non-necessities for fear of being taxed on it.

If car companies would get their heads out of their asses they'll see that if they had a few offerings of quality that looked appealing, were reliable and fun to drive below the $20k market price that they would actually start to see a profit. Sure they won't have all the bells and whistles but in the end if you had the option to buy and entry level car for say $15-18k with a low interest rate that didn't have self parking technology, on-star/Sync, or any of that other useless crap that was fun to drive, easy to maintain, and cheap overall ownership costs wouldn't you jump at it as a first car for your kids or a daily driver. Look how popular the Ford Festiva was back in the day, you could literally walk into a dealership with bad credit or no credit put $500 on the table and walk out with a fully loaded Festiva and a $99 a month car payment. Sure it was a s*** box, but there are still quite a few of them running around, parts are stupid cheap, the car was/is relatively easy to maintain and you got like 40mpg which back then was practically unheard of. If Daimler-Chrysler, CM, and Ford were to do something similar, but make it a bit less of a s***, they'd find themselves able to dig themselves out of the debt they have gotten themselves into. or do you guys think that most Americans are too stuck up any more to be caught dead in something akin to an updated Ford Festiva.

[JustinStrife]

My question is only this: Why do we care so much about GM?

I kind of have a small preference for their LS series V8's... Call me crazy but I don't want to see those go away.

[RCA]

Not a fan, the legalization of Marijuana.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCgn4dDfQgc

I don't have a problem where it's at but them I'm a war mongering military brat who served in the Army as is seriously considering going back in after a 10 year vacation.

You don't think we spend to much money in defense?
We are on offense for Pete's sake.

We cut defensive spending in half and we can provide free health care option for every man women and child in the US. Where are our priorities?

Consumption taxes won't do any good except piss everyone off and result into less spending, which in turn while helping the average Joe save money, will kill business' because people won't be buying non-necessities for fear of being taxed on it.

Well how about this...
Raise consumption tax 15% or your income tax %15 percent? Pick your poison. It's going to happen one way or another.
Rich people find any and all loop holes to pay as little taxes as possible and even Exxon Mobil made $35 billion and payed $0 in taxes to the US.

So keep the current rates for income tax and raise consumption tax. This will allow the US government to make money on non-legals in the US as well as those who just don't pay taxes/those who are great at avoiding them.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Not a fan, the legalization of Marijuana.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCgn4dDfQgc

I don't have a problem where it's at but them I'm a war mongering military brat who served in the Army as is seriously considering going back in after a 10 year vacation.

You don't think we spend to much money in defense?
We are on offense for Pete's sake.

We cut defensive spending in half and we can provide free health care option for every man women and child in the US. Where are our priorities?

Consumption taxes won't do any good except piss everyone off and result into less spending, which in turn while helping the average Joe save money, will kill business' because people won't be buying non-necessities for fear of being taxed on it.

Well how about this...
Raise consumption tax 15% or your income tax %15 percent? Pick your poison. It's going to happen one way or another.
Rich people find any and all loop holes to pay as little taxes as possible and even Exxon Mobil made $35 billion and payed $0 in taxes to the US.

So keep the current rates for income tax and raise consumption tax. This will allow the US government to make money on non-legals in the US as well as those who just don't pay taxes/those who are great at avoiding them.

They tried cutting defense spending back in the day once the cold war was over, you know what happened? Desert Storm, Bosnia, and Somalia. All three left the US military in debt and struggling to make ends meet. I was in the Army around this time and saw it's effects, they were forced to push the older vets out and severely limit the number of new recruits. Guess what happened after that? 9/11 and the assault on Afghanistan and Iraq to get those that had done the tragedies of 9/11 to us. We didn't have enough troops, all the old vets had been pushed into retirement and the equipment wasn't up to par to handle the sudden surge to the war machine. This led to our troops not being properly prepared or having any combat vets to teach them to keep their eyes open and their heads down. So there was a sudden need for recruits which led to the rumors of them calling a draft into effect, which personally I hoped they had done, the military builds character, discipline, and a strong work ethic.

The legalization of marijuana is a hot topic that will never be resolved, it just has too many issues to be resolved.

[vocationalzero]

You know the C5 Corvette was supposed to come out in 1994? The design was finished but company sat on it for three years twiddling their thumbs.

IIRC the C5 was first introduced in 94 but design changes and safety changes caused a delay in release. Just like in 83, which resulted in there not being one that year

So since they didn't release a 83 model how can they have a 50th anniversary edition...

[MinisterofDOOM]

50th anniversary for the Covette was 2003, not 1983.

[The Siath]

Ok, I bought a Nissan Versa (couple of years ago) - The Chevy Aveo and Scion Xb were the other choices... well, the Toyota/Scion dealer wouldn't show me the car I asked to see, so screw them... The Chevy dealer would have gladly sold me an Aveo, with 2 Airbags, AM/FM RADIO, no other options came with the car, they would all 'add to the cost' (emphasis cause to get a CD player of ANY type in the Aveo, I'd have to purchase the car, and leave with the dealer for 2 weeks to have it INSTALLED at a cost of $2500. The Aveo, with CD, would have cost me less than the Versa (only by about $3000).
At the Nissan Dealer, they showed and let me test drive 3 Versa's (fyi, I bought the Versa the same day as they unloaded them from the truck, in 07). They worked the financing for us. The Versa came with CD, 6 airbags, aluminum door sills, floor mats, trunk mat.

My question is only this: Why do we care so much about GM?

Dattebayo - not sure -

Is that XT6 in your signature?