Improving the Bose Stereo

Post by **Valenti** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:30 pm

I've decided the "premium" Bose system in my 05 Coupe MT is mediocre at best. Am going to keep the "head unit" because it's so integrated into the console, but have been looking at changing the speakers. Of course, with Bose, you can't just rip out the old and put in new, so I'm probably going to have to put in an amp and then speakers, using the head as a "pre."

Anyone out there changed their speakers? Would like to hear what others have done.

Or maybe it's just me...

Post by **C-Kwik** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:51 pm

I would think that changing out the speakers would be fine to do. The Bose amp should still work. The replacement speakers will likely have a higher impedance so you would probably lose a bit of wattage, but the amp should not have any issues. Lower impedance speakers may overheat the amp.

For output to an amp though, you would need line outputt converter. There are some nicer ones out now that are said to try and flatten the response curves.

If I were to do this, I'd keep the stock head unit as well. Can't really get a 6-disc changer in a headunit these days.

Post by **AZhitman** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:48 pm

I don't agree, but I also don't know first-hand.

I have read elsewhere that it's damn near impossible to replace one component successfully (such as just speakers).

1. The Bose amp places heavily equalization on its outputs. So if you simply replace the OE speakers with Kappas or whatever, you just have a more expensive speaker playing the same crappy equalized signals.

2. The stock head unit (clarion) is crappy. When you get up past a volume of around 20ish, it rolls the volume and bass off to "protect" the speakers from being blown. The internal processor sucks. If you fade the deck completely to the front you get distortion.

All in all, the system in its entirety "works" because of the little games each piece places with one another. Break it apart, and it only gets worse.

I WILL agree that the Bose in the G35 SUCKS. My Bose system in my 95 Q45 sounds TEN TIMES better than the one in my Coupe.

Post by **joe603** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:19 pm

Unfortunately, you cannot remove the Bose speakers with aftermarket one's, and still use the stock amps...The speakers have high impedance (16ohms) which is designed to work with the amps. To do it right, you would need to completely overhaul the system (head deck/speakers/amps/subs/wiring). Another alternative would be to keep the stock speakers, and add a subwoofer setup. The Bose system is great for mid/high range. Just my 2 cents...

Post by **Valenti** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:17 pm

Interesting. Both stereo shops I've been to agreed that the Bose head uses super-low impedence speakers, rending it useless for regular 4 ohm replacements.

I've been looking at a system that will take the outputs from the head unit, drop it to line level, convert to "balanced" outputs, and then feed a "real" amp and good speakers.

I have not found that distortion--at any level--is the problem with my particular setup. The gripe I have is that the midrange/lower treble from the tweeter is irritating--like they're eq'd at athe 1.5-4k range--which is not the area you want to mess with. Causes a lot of listening fatigue. Increasing the treble to get some highs/clarity only worsens the problem. There's a fair amout of bass to be had, but it's rather muddy.

My experience with stock units is that car manufactureres always skimp on the speakers because buyers see and play with the deck, but no one can "see" a good speaker. A cheap pair of coax looks just like an expensive pair to most people.

Believe it or not, my biggest worry is figuring out where the heck to mount the 4chanel amp without totally losing my trunk (which has to fit my guitar amp). (And I need to fold down the seat to fit my guitars back there...) Oh well.

But hey, thanks for the opinions. So far it doesn't sound like anyone has done major surgery on their sound systems. If/when I get this done, I'll post a full report.

Post by **GMAN69** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:56 am

I'm also interested in adding more to my Bose system. Maybe subs and an amp. Please Keep us updated.

Post by **audtatious** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:08 am

In my 2k2 Max, the factory front tweeter is 4ohm while the mid is <2ohm. Replacing the factory speakers with new 4ohm seperates will effectively give you brilliant highs and no mids since the 4ohm load of the new drivers will effectively cut output in 1/2.

The only way to do it right is to add a converter and replace the factory speakers while adding a new amp.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:49 am

joe603 wrote:Unfortunately, you cannot remove the Bose speakers with aftermarket one's, and still use the stock amps...The speakers have high impedance (16ohms) which is designed to work with the amps. To do it right, you would need to completely overhaul the system (head deck/speakers/amps/subs/wiring). Another alternative would be to keep the stock speakers, and add a subwoofer setup. The Bose system is great for mid/high range. Just my 2 cents...

Not only have sources told me that they used lower impedance speakers, but 16 ohm speakers would be hard to find off the shelf as well as the amps to drive it. Home stereo systems typically use 8 ohms. Many have simply replaced the factory speakers and it works without any problems.

Using higher impedance speakers is easier to do than going from high to low. Low impedance speakers allow you to make more power from a given amp. It just heats up the amp quicker, requiring the amp be built to dissapate more heat. So going to a higher impedance speaker should not pose a problem.

While replacing only the speakers doesn't fix all the problems, it may resolve issues related to the speaker quality. Few factory speakers will have the cone rgidity found in a decent aftermarket speaker.

As far as the amp taking up room, if you remove the Bose amp, there is plenty of room in it's place. From what I saw of this area(in a coupe), you can probably fit a decent 4-channel or 5-channel without any problems.

Post by **audtatious** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:06 am

In this particular scenario, going to 16ohm is completely the wrong direction. You would have to get 2ohm (or less) speakers to get appropriate sound.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:11 pm

audtatious wrote:In this particular scenario, going to 16ohm is completely the wrong direction. You would have to get 2ohm (or less) speakers to get appropriate sound.

I wasn't saying to go to a 16 ohm speaker. Someone was saying the stock speakers were 16 ohm.

However, going lower(to 2 ohms) isn't necessarily a good idea. It will allow the stock amp to make more power, but it may not be designed to be stable at 2 ohms. Especially under load. As I said already, lower impedance speakers allow more power to be made with any amp, but not all amps have the ability to dissapate heat fast enough to remain stable. I wouldn't be confident with the Bose amp's ability to do this. However, going to a slightly higher 4 ohm speaker would probably be fine. My understanding is that the factory Bose speakers are 3 ohms.

Post by **audtatious** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:51 pm

Unless they made a change to the Bose systems in the last 3 years, the factory Bose speakers are 2ohm or less. Any speakers with higher ohms and the amp will make less power than with the factory speakers.

Post by **Valenti** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:37 pm

audtatious wrote:As far as the amp taking up room, if you remove the Bose amp, there is plenty of room in it's place. From what I saw of this area(in a coupe), you can probably fit a decent 4-channel or 5-channel without any problems.

Are you referring to the area behind the head unit, (behind the console?) I had assumed that the Bose amp was built into the head unit. Are you saying the amp is an individual piece of (excuse me) hardware?

The 4 chanel amp I have my eyes on takes up 18 inches of width. I'd be curious to find that kind of space aft of the trunk.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:48 pm

I'll have to double check the figure, and the rear 6x9's may be a different impedance than the rest, but I do recall seeing someone mention there were some 3 ohm speakers mixed in there somewhere. And yes, a higher impedance speaker will reduce the power output of the amp, but it should remain stable. Going to a lower impedance speaker however, will put additional load on the amp, potentially overheating it.

Post by **C-Kwik** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:50 pm

Valenti wrote:
Are you referring to the area behind the head unit, (behind the console?) I had assumed that the Bose amp was built into the head unit. Are you saying the amp is an individual piece of (excuse me) hardware?

The 4 chanel amp I have my eyes on takes up 18 inches of width. I'd be curious to find that kind of space aft of the trunk.

The factory bose amp resides in the trunk next to the spare tire. At least in the coupe. But I would expect the sedan is not much different.

Post by **Valenti** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:33 pm

C-Kwik wrote:
The factory bose amp resides in the trunk next to the spare tire. At least in the coupe. But I would expect the sedan is not much different.

Fascinating! I was wondering what was in that area to the left of the spare! (Ok, so I should be able to squeeze the 4-chanel Zapco into that same spot--I'll measure just to be sure.

With the new amp and normal 4ohm speakers, everything should be fine. I'll keep y'all updated...

Post by **Valenti** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:54 pm

Here's an update on the Bose-fix project:

I wanted to improve the sound quality of the "upgraded" Bose system in my 05 coupe. Here's what I had installed:

Boston SL60 separates up frontDiamond 300.4 Amp in trunk (Zapco wouldn't fit)Diamond 6x9 speakers in rear tray

Goals were to keep the head unit, not use any more precious trunk space (for amps or subs) and have a better sounding system within a reasonable budget.

And I'm happy to report it worked!

The speakers all fit nicely, replacing the crappy Bose units. The Diamond amp fit in the space where the Bose amp used to be, next to the spare.

We initially tried using an AudioControl Matrix as a line driver, but there was noise being introduced. So it ended up being wired straight from the balanced outs of the HU to the inputs of the Diamond. And it's surprisingly quiet. No hum, no interference.

There's a good amount of bass from the 6x9s and there is now a wonderful clarity in the mids and high range. (In the interest of saving money, I decided NOT to do anything with the rear quarter panel speakers next to the back seats, and left them disconnected.)

I will admit that the system would sound even better with a nicer HU, but I didn't want to go that route.

So the answer is yes, you CAN keep the stock HU and make all the pieces play together nicely.

Post by **joe603** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:27 am

There is another option...JL audio's CleanSweep. Its a way to keep the head deck, but provide 4-volt pre's to aftermarket amps. Check out the website

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/prod...d=388

(Sorry Valenti, might be a little late for you)

Post by **audtatious** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:39 am

What's nice about CleanSweep is that it flattens out the frequency response. The Bose HU injects programmed "EQ curves" into it's outputs. As you turn it up, bass frequencies are turned down in order to keep people from blowing the factory speakers. That's why I am simply going to replace the Bose HU after 1+ years of using it with my aftermarket system.

Post by **steven0720** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:40 am

i did the Polk MOMO 12" sub in my Coupe, it sounds awsome.

Post by **joe603** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:54 am

steven0720 wrote:i did the Polk MOMO 12" sub in my Coupe, it sounds awsome.

do you have any pics of your setup?

Post by **myg35ss** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:20 pm

Here goes my input. If you want to improve on the Bose system scrap it all. As you have seen from EVERYONES response there is no aftermarket fix. Bose have done a superb job of capitalizing on their technologies as well as marketing them to the auto manufacturers. I purchaced a double din conversion from Japan for around $300.00 US dollars early in 2005 with a little homework. It is probably much easier to get this now than it was when I researched. The kit comes with a modified climate control board that allows segregation of the controls. Once you have to abality to use your choice of head units the choices are endless. I'm using Preimer's P9 head unit and signal processor, 8 channels of wonderfully clean Extant power, and Focal Utopias for drivers.

Post by **joe603** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:31 am

So the double din conversion will move the A/C controls? Do you have pics, or a link? What about the wiring; any advice on how to get through the firewall for the power main or running the pre-outs to the rear? I'm in the very early design stage for my system, and was originally going to keep the bose head unit (I love the way it looks on an '05).

Improving the Bose Stereo

Improving the Bose Stereo

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