Importance of extended warranty

[jameskjensen]

Howdy,
I've been lurking for a while and I'm looking to purchase an m56/m37 in the near future. Most of the 2011/2012 models will be exciting factory warranty pretty soon and I'm looking at cars with less 50k miles on them anyway. I will only put maybe 5k miles per year on it and I'm not afraid to do some wrenching. But are there any big items that seem to come up with these cars when they get into the 50-100k mileage that would necessitate considering an extended warranty? I know they are stupid expensive initially so I have to imagine there are some pricey parts on here.

[Ilya]

Welcome to the forum.

I'd never buy a luxury car (Infiniti or otherwise) without it.

In my 2007, a simple module replacement for the memory seat was $1,300 with labor. I paid $1,900 for the warranty. So, I got it for this car too, although have yet to use...but I have a few things that I'll be bringing to the dealers attention once I move back home. You probably won't need it for things like the drivetrain, but you never know with electronics and technology.

[AZhitman]

A good read here: nissan-infiniti-extended-warranty-infor ... 37453.html

Welcome aboard, James!

[silberma]

Here is why I think an extended warrantee in your case may not makes sense:
1. The car has a high reliability rating to start with. I would not buy a car with low reliability.
2. Your low mileage will reduce your maintenance costs
3. Your repair cost would not be so high. if this was a BMW or Mercedes it would be a different story.
4. Extended car warranties are there to make money for those selling them, not to save you money. Cars have become more reliable as time goes along.
In the final analysis it is what gives you peace of mind.

[Ilya]

Here is why I think an extended warrantee in your case may not makes sense:
1. The car has a high reliability rating to start with. I would not buy a car with low reliability.
2. Your low mileage will reduce your maintenance costs
3. Your repair cost would not be so high. if this was a BMW or Mercedes it would be a different story.
4. Extended car warranties are there to make money for those selling them, not to save you money. Cars have become more reliable as time goes along.
In the final analysis it is what gives you peace of mind.

I'll have to disagree with #4. Engines and transmissions have, generally, become more reliable...however, with the introduction of technology (my 99 Maxima had 3 computers in the car, my 2011 M has like 14), cars can be just as unreliable today.

As for the price of the warranty...let's use my 2007 as an example (as I haven't used the warranty on my 2011 but will be soon for some interior trim issues). I paid $1,900 or so for the warranty if I recall. In the first month of having it, I had the memory module for the driver seat replaced which was like $1,300 parts and labor (seat would go back when I got out, but not back to it's spot when I got in). Then, about a year or two later, I blew a wheel bearing in my driver side front and they couldn't separate it from the knuckle/axle so they replaced the entire assembly, etc. That was like $2k. Then, just before the warranty expired I had some suspension rattle going on and after some back and forth with the dealer, the steering rack was replaced for another $1.5k or so. All in all? I saved boat loads of money and BOAT LOADS of time (I could have fixed all but the seat issue myself as I have a lift and air tools in my garage).

If you can afford the $2k warranty and your car is about to expire, I recommend it. The Elite warranty is NICE. Not to mention you can get serviced at ANY Infiniti dealer and get a nice loaner car too boot.

[Larz]

I could not agree more with Ilya.
I consider an extended warranty to be both an insurance policy and a bet at the same time. You're betting that you will recover the cost of the warranty with covered repairs and the warranty company is betting that you will barley use it and that they will sell more warranty policies than they actually pay out on. But it is also like insurance. You will likely never recover what you pay the insurance company over the years but you also know that it takes only one bad incident to ruin you. You should never weigh the cost against what it pays out to you (although we all do to a degree).
Our cars are amazingly reliable, but as you read posts in here you will come across many many owners who didn't get a warranty and are now looking for cheap, used, or replacement parts because something stopped working and they cannot afford, or do not want to pay for new OEM parts. What if it's a part that prevents driving the car? If you financed the car, you will be making payments on a car you cannot drive until you pay the cost of parts and labor. A warranty will always get you new OEM parts, not unreliable used or worn parts. My warranty is not through Infiniti (through CarMax) and since I can go anywhere, I use my local Infiniti dealer and get a free loaner, new OEM parts, and repairs are done by Infiniti techs.
I had a warranty on my 07 M and also have that same warranty on my 09 M. My 07 was totaled by a drunk driver(at about 100k miles) with only one warranty repair ($800 starter and battery) so I did not get back the cost of the warranty and I could not care less about that. Even if you never use it, don't look at it as a loss and never try to match the warranty price against payouts. A warranty is NOT an investment that you expect to make a profit on. Like car insurance, you may never recoup the expense, but it will give you peace of mind and cover you should a loss occur.

[Debonair]

Not me. No warranty. Many mods. Thug Life.

[mazz]

we should insure only things we can not afford to replace..........example health , liability etc. If a hundred people write in and tell about how it paid off for them ,they they are just examples, there is math to this and Insurance companies are doing the math. I would not questions anybodies need for any insurance they purchase, but if you continually purchase insurance for products you can afford to replace you are playing with a financially losing hands. If it lets you sleep at night ,if it makes you "feel" better , if your sex life improves ,I can not quantify the value of those things but i can tell you warranties are written to limit liabilities and insurance policies are written to make money.
Mazz

[Ilya]

It's an obvious pro's/con's game...no one is debating that. I already have probably $1k in issues in my 2011 that I'll be using my $2,100 plan for. Steering wheel is peeling on the inside (hard plastic, some kind of coating) and my driver side arm rest (in the door) caved in when I leaned out it with my elbow (pointy elbow = put a hole under the leather). Minor things, but I don't have to worry about them because I have warranty.

Pro's = peace of mind, parts are replaced, etc.
Con's = less money in your pocket (that's the only con)

[jameskjensen]

Thank you for all the insight. I appreciate the opinions. I love the M's and am excited to get my hands on one of my own. I know the reliability is much better on these than a BMW or Merc and that's one of the reasons I want one. I've always been able to fix most things on every car I've owned but I know my limits and I have to imagine that if s*** goes south on a car that initially cost $60k+ it's likely going to be a: expensive and b: a royal pain in the a** to justify to my wife why I dropped $30k on an unreliable money pit.

[AZhitman]

Most of you know my [positive] experience with an aftermarket extended warranty.

I've got a car in the shop right now for its THIRD transmission in 26,000 miles.

I don't think cars are more reliable than they were 20 years ago, and I'm more than happy to place my expertise and experience (how many 2009+ cars have YOU disassembled?) against anyone's.

The flip side of the "don't own anything you can't afford to replace" argument is this: If you can afford a luxury item, you can afford to protect it.

[silberma]

Many of the items expressed here are opinions and not facts. If you would bother to investigate car reliability over the years you would find that reliability on the average has in fact improved vastly over the years.

Car shoppers today are less likely to end up with a lemon. In the past five years, global competition has forced automakers to improve the quality and reliability of their vehicles -- everything from inexpensive mini-cars to decked-out luxury SUVs.
With few exceptions, cars are so close on reliability that it's getting harder for companies to charge a premium. In fact GM and Ford to a large degree closed the large quality with the Japanese brands and were able to increase sales and price. Honda's and Toyota's no longer command a premium.

The newfound emphasis on quality has closed the gap between best and worst in the industry. In 1998, J.D. Power and Associates, which surveys owners about trouble with their cars after three years, found an industry average of 278 problems per 100 vehicles. By this year, the number fell to 132.

Furthermore, the responses here represent members that feels strongly about extended warranties because they received value from it. Members that did not receive value are less likely to respond.

[Ilya]

Fact of the matter is, cars still break. Not as much, but they still do. For those times they do, especially with $70k cars like these that are technologically advanced, you'd be silly not to.

Similar to what AZ said in his last sentence, think of it this way:

Let's say the average person keeps their car for 60 months (5 years). Let's also say the average warranty is $2,500 (I paid less, but let's just ballpark it on the high side for S&G's). If you divide the cost of the warranty by the number of days you own the car, you're paying $1.36/day for peace of mind. Are you kidding me? Like I said, the ONLY con of having a warranty is the upfront cost. Everything else is a pro.

I make $1.36 every 45 seconds. That is a joke. I'll buy two warranties if I have to...to make sure that, just in case, I'm covered if my car that is more advanced than a super computer from the 70's decides to blow an electrical system, I'm covered.

That's the price of a cup of coffee, maybe even less. It's negligible and totally worth it.

EDIT: Not to mention it's transferable (upping the resale value a smidge). I got one for my 2013 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R as well, even if I never use it. $500 over 60 months is $0.27/day.

Again, this is not like a $200/month insurance premium. It's not even in the same ballpark.

[AZhitman]

Many of the items expressed here are opinions and not facts. If you would bother to investigate car reliability over the years you would find that reliability on the average has in fact improved vastly over the years.

Hmmm. A little argumentative, not quite knowing what I'm basing this on, eh?

Reliability may well have improved. Not vastly (we subscribe to and participate in a number of data collection tools for this very reason, so that we can discuss, intelligently, the state of reliability). Even the reports can't agree (I saw 147 PP100 here, but that's academic).

Also, "reliability" is a nebulous term. Did your car leave you stranded on the side of the road, spewing fluids or smoke? Or did your check engine light come on, necessitating a trip to the dealer? The difference, from a datapoints approach, is nil. They both represent a "failure" in the eye of the consumer, and the exact same "-1" datapoint.

Car shoppers today are less likely to end up with a lemon.

Agreed, 100%. Even the cheapest turd on the market is a good car, capable of 100k trouble-free miles. You're spot-on with that whole line of reasoning.

However, we've got 15 years of data (yep, the forums have been around that long, and I've been at the helm) that contain both anecdotal and statistical data on "lemons" that still exist - for example, the CVT fiasco that necessitated Nissan replacing a great many of them, and offering a 130k extended warranty to the rest. The 'melting' dashboard issues that plagued the Altimas of 09-13. The list goes on.

This isn't about lemons. That's where you're missing the point, and it's certainly excusable (and understandable).

A car need NOT be a "lemon" (by definition) for a simple insurance policy to make sense - AND, by 'making sense,' all it is required to do is provide peace of mind. It need not necessarily pay for itself. So, by definition, there's really no way to deny that the people who buy an EW are getting what they wanted.

A CVT replacement (sans warranty) is $2600. An AC compressor is $1600. An ECM / BCM replacement is $1100. The infotainment system in a new M is $2600. Those are the types of issues that send high-end cars to salvage yards or auctions long before their time.

In the past five years, global competition has forced automakers to improve the quality and reliability of their vehicles -- everything from inexpensive mini-cars to decked-out luxury SUVs.

Nope.

First off, "Global competition" isn't new, and it hasn't changed significantly since Korea became a serious player in the market in the early 90's.

Global competition has forced automakers to do one thing, and one thing only: Reduce costs. In reducing costs, they've turned to unprecedented levels of parts and component production in third-world countries. Again, when you dismantle some 09+ vehicles, you can confidently discuss this matter. I have. The number of 'one-time-use-only' cheap Chinese / Taiwanese components in the cars that I (and the other members here) have 'reverse-engineered' is higher than ever.

Let's not ignore the fact that several of my staff here are employed BY the manufacturer. Engineers, designers, assembly guys... I trust what they share FAR more than anyone else. They sit in the meetings. They perform the testing. They design the tests that stress components to failure, and document same. They know what the acceptable failure rates are. They roll their eyes and gnash their teeth at the seemingly-ridiculous shortcuts that their employers make, sometimes to save a fraction of a cent per unit.

'Planned obsolescence' is alive and well in 2015.

Good discussion - This is fun!

[silberma]

If you still doubt that cars are becoming more reliable read this article from USA today.

"Improvements in vehicle quality have made cars more reliable, so consumers are less likely to scrap their vehicles when they buy new ones.
The average age of vehicles on the road in the U.S. is rising, even as consumers snap up more new ones — a paradox attributable to substantial increases in reliability.
The typical car on the road in the U.S. is a record-high 11.5 years old, according to a new IHS Automotive survey.
"Vehicles are simply lasting longer than ever before," Mark Seng, global aftermarket practice leader at IHS Automotive, told USA TODAY. "The consumer is hanging onto their vehicle longer than ever before."
Automakers have substantially improved the reliability of their vehicles. Although it's still possible to buy a "lemon," it's getting increasingly difficult.
Analysts say that most of the major automakers have overcome major quality issues. Now, industry surveys such as the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study typically highlight minor quality issues such as ease-of-use of infotainment systems.
The number of vehicles on the road that are at least 25 years old is about 14 million. That's up from about 8 million in 2002. Those are vehicles made in 1990 or earlier.
Meanwhile, the number of vehicles that are 16 to 24 years old is 44 million. That's up from 26 million in 2002, according to IHS.
"There’s quite a bit of evidence of these vehicles lasting longer, staying on the road longer, people hanging on to them longer," Seng said.
IHS projected that the number of vehicles that are older than 12 years will rise by 15% over the next five years.
There are about 120 million vehicles on the road that are 6 to 14 years old."

[withomps44]

I have a 2011 M37X with 57,000 miles. A few weeks ago a piece inside the steering wheel cover (around blinkers/light switch etc) broke and caused the tilt function to lock up the steering wheel when tilted down in a driving position. Infiniti said this was a very odd/freak occurrence and one they had not seen. They had my car for 4 days... had to order new part for internal mechanism and replace the steering column cover. After parts and labor the bill was $3,200. I purchased my extended warranty for $1800 (6 years or 100,000 odometer miles bumper to bumper) and had to pay $500 for the deductible and half the labor at Infiniti. The warranty saved me $2,700 and I'm ahead of the game already by $900 now because I purchased the warranty.

If you can afford the car you should be able to afford the warranty and have the peace of mind associated with it. I 100% recommend a good extended warranty that covers all electronics, motors, etc for the car.

[Ilya]

If you still doubt that cars are becoming more reliable read this article from USA today.

"Improvements in vehicle quality have made cars more reliable, so consumers are less likely to scrap their vehicles when they buy new ones.
The average age of vehicles on the road in the U.S. is rising, even as consumers snap up more new ones — a paradox attributable to substantial increases in reliability.
The typical car on the road in the U.S. is a record-high 11.5 years old, according to a new IHS Automotive survey.
"Vehicles are simply lasting longer than ever before," Mark Seng, global aftermarket practice leader at IHS Automotive, told USA TODAY. "The consumer is hanging onto their vehicle longer than ever before."
Automakers have substantially improved the reliability of their vehicles. Although it's still possible to buy a "lemon," it's getting increasingly difficult.
Analysts say that most of the major automakers have overcome major quality issues. Now, industry surveys such as the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study typically highlight minor quality issues such as ease-of-use of infotainment systems.
The number of vehicles on the road that are at least 25 years old is about 14 million. That's up from about 8 million in 2002. Those are vehicles made in 1990 or earlier.
Meanwhile, the number of vehicles that are 16 to 24 years old is 44 million. That's up from 26 million in 2002, according to IHS.
"There’s quite a bit of evidence of these vehicles lasting longer, staying on the road longer, people hanging on to them longer," Seng said.
IHS projected that the number of vehicles that are older than 12 years will rise by 15% over the next five years.
There are about 120 million vehicles on the road that are 6 to 14 years old."

Staying on the road longer does not equal more reliable. It just means that the frame or body didn't rust to crap and force the owner to junk it. Some owners, like my dad, will keep a car running as long as he can (he has a 2002 Subaru Legacy that I wouldn't drive unless it was the last car in the world that he keeps fixing - lately he's been cutting out the rust and rewelding sheet metal to it and spray painting it a similar color lol). He also has a 1992 Chevy K1500 that he rebuilt the transmission on as well as put in a lower mileage motor into after blowing his original one snow plowing (stuck in a bank, revved it too much at 280kmi). They need to look at cost of ownership between a 2000 model and a 2010 model, for example, to see the trend. Age of cars on the road means very little.

No one is saying technology hasn't helped cars be more reliable...BUT THEY STILL BREAK. You can NOT argue that. You just can't lol. And sometimes, when they break, they break hard. Or are expensive to fix.

I'm not sure what is left to discuss...

[Larz]

It's important also to consider what is NOT covered by the extended warranty. For instance, Infiniti does NOT cover the entertainment system, navigation system, communication system, or AFS system. Just by blind luck I purchased my Infiniti from CarMax and their high-end warranty covers all of these, but also costs a bit more than the Infiniti warranty. I believe I paid just over $2000 for my 2009 M35 with about 24k miles. I have yet to use it. I also had that same warranty (same price) on my 07 M35 which ran up to about 100k miles only using the warranty to replace the starter, cables and inline fuses, and battery that were also ruined by the failed starter (less than $1,000). Clearly, these companies would not even offer warranties if they had frequent pay-outs, lest they would lose money on them. That alone should tell us all that for every person who uses the warranty, there are plenty more who never used theirs. As I said before, if you look at these from a "dollars paid Vs dollars recovered" criteria, they are not a great deal. However, you will get the peace of mind that comes from knowing that when a repair bill comes up, it will not affect your wallet. If you keep your car for 6 years, you are paying $25 to $35 per month for that peace of mind. Everyone has their own way of placing a value on piece of mind.

[Mjkkb2]

It's important also to consider what is NOT covered by the extended warranty. For instance, Infiniti does NOT cover the entertainment system, navigation system, communication system, or AFS system. Just by blind luck I purchased my Infiniti from CarMax and their high-end warranty covers all of these, but also costs a bit more than the Infiniti warranty. I believe I paid just over $2000 for my 2009 M35 with about 24k miles. I have yet to use it. I also had that same warranty (same price) on my 07 M35 which ran up to about 100k miles only using the warranty to replace the starter, cables and inline fuses, and battery that were also ruined by the failed starter (less than $1,000). Clearly, these companies would not even offer warranties if they had frequent pay-outs, lest they would lose money on them. That alone should tell us all that for every person who uses the warranty, there are plenty more who never used theirs. As I said before, if you look at these from a "dollars paid Vs dollars recovered" criteria, they are not a great deal. However, you will get the peace of mind that comes from knowing that when a repair bill comes up, it will not affect your wallet. If you keep your car for 6 years, you are paying $25 to $35 per month for that peace of mind. Everyone has their own way of placing a value on piece of mind.

You may want to clarify what you mean by 'Infiniti' warranty. I believe you are referring to certified pre own warranty extension as opposed to the Infiniti extended elite plan, which does cover all electronics.
Aside from that I agree with all you said.

[Ilya]

Yep, it's literally about peace of mind. Like I said, they have their pro's and con's...their only con being the upfront cost...but if you can afford a $70k sedan, you can afford a $1.25/day or $25/month warranty IMO. BUT, no one is forcing you to buy one.

[JCesar]

If you want the best bang for your buck then look for a 2012-2013 from Infiniti Dealer that is that still has the Manufacturer Warranty and also the Infiniti Certified Warranty.

two warranties included at no extra cost

[Ilya]

If you want the best bang for your buck then look for a 2012-2013 from Infiniti Dealer that is that still has the Manufacturer Warranty and also the Infiniti Certified Warranty.

two warranties included at no extra cost

This is the reason why I buy my cars after lease-turn in .

[lKoRTy]

So if I were to buy a 2012 with ~50k miles, I can just go to nearest Infiniti dealer to purchase Elite warranty? Or does the car need to be purchased through an Infiniti dealer in order to be eligible for the extended warranty?

[Ilya]

So if I were to buy a 2012 with ~50k miles, I can just go to nearest Infiniti dealer to purchase Elite warranty? Or does the car need to be purchased through an Infiniti dealer in order to be eligible for the extended warranty?

You can buy the Elite warranty long after the fact, and from any Infiniti dealer. Many people on the M35/45 forum actually purchased their warranty (me included) from either Circle Infiniti or Scottsdale Infiniti. See the FAQ link in my signature and in there you'll see the warranty discussion. I'm not sure who has the best price now.

[jameskjensen]

Does the car still need to be under factory warranty to be eligible for the elite warranty?

[Ilya]

I do not believe so. I think it costs less if it is (since they know it should be in better shape), but you can buy it at any time. Pretty sure.

[Victoria]

If you are interested in an Infiniti Elite plan, I can help you out. We offer VERY competitive pricing on this and many other products and accessories. Send me an email and we can chat further,
[email protected].

[Larz]

we should insure only things we can not afford to replace..........example health , liability etc. If a hundred people write in and tell about how it paid off for them ,they they are just examples, there is math to this and Insurance companies are doing the math. I would not questions anybodies need for any insurance they purchase, but if you continually purchase insurance for products you can afford to replace you are playing with a financially losing hands. If it lets you sleep at night ,if it makes you "feel" better , if your sex life improves ,I can not quantify the value of those things but i can tell you warranties are written to limit liabilities and insurance policies are written to make money.
Mazz

Again, you can NOT measure an extended warranty in terms of dollars paid Vs dollars paid out. And, of course, insurance companies make money on what they sell. Anyone who sells anything is selling it because they make a profit - the grocer, the gas station, the company who employs you - they all make money. This is not a new idea. We aren't talking about buying a warranty on a $50 toaster oven that can replaced with another $50 when it finally craps out. This is $60-$70k dollar vehicle made from thousands of parts that are extremely expensive to replace. I just did a couple minute long squinz at some repairs posted on this forum:

This is axle number three because of a leaking outer boot. I'm not paying the dealer $700.

My Infiniti dealer called. $2,700 for labor and new parts to replace this piece and fix the cover/case on the steering wheel column on my 2011 M37.

Has anyone had to replace there radiator on their 2011 M56? if so, was it a hard job? Yesterday I was at the dealer and was told that I have a small hole in it..... $1,200 to replace it.

My park lights stay ON after I shut off the car. IPDM module is shot $600.

My 2012 M37 just went out from under warranty (typical). So my rear differential started with a small leak. The part itself is $1280 plus labor. I have a $2000 fix on my hands.

The navigation on my car keeps shutting off and along with it goes my ability to control the AC and Radio. I took the car into my mechanic and he said the problem is a $3800 part.

I have run into an issue with my 2010 M35 Base w/ Nav regarding dash button inoperability - $2,000.

The telescoping motor on my 2006 M45 Sport is making a grinding sound, and it not functionin properly. I was quoted $650 plus installation at the dealership.

I've been having an issue with my LDW system on my m35s. Infinitiparts prices the part at $1900.

"I just can't believe something this expensive happened out of the blue and with the car only 2-3 months out of warranty".

These total to $15,400 !!!

These cars are amazingly reliable, but even the best built cars eventually break. I gladly paid $2000 for my extended warranty because I won't be posting this sort of thing until after Sept 2019 or 125,000 miles. This is my second warranty on my second M. I only had one $800 repair on the first M (I paid $100) and no repairs to my current M. But when the first M was totaled by a drunk driver, GEICO paid me $18,000 after I paid them only two months of pemium (about $300) - brand new policy, heh. It works both ways, but we all know in the end, GEICO will still be in business and remain profitable because the number people paying them is much higher than the number of people they send checks to. This is the ONLY way things like this can work

[JCesar]

I bought my 2012 M37x this April 04/04/15 with 40k miles at a Infiniti Dealer local to me and because It still has the new warranty and is also has Infiniti Certified warranty at no extra cost. my warranty is to 100k miles or 6/23/18

not bad at all, even the sales guy and finance guy told me, "Well, we can't sell you a Warranty since the car comes with both but if you want, you can guy this protection plan that covers unlimited paint-less dents removal, any damaged to your wheels and windshield protection for 2-3 years" i forgot the number of years they said but it was between 2-3 and they wanted around $1,500 i told them no and singing all the papers they said i could get it for $900 but still said no

[mazz]

Larz i enjoy reading your comments [even if you sometimes talk funny ] but i disagree with your statement" you can NOT measure an extended warranty in terms of dollars paid Vs dollars paid out" i think it is the only way to measure a purchase of a warranty.
You can't fall in love with "the ride" of a warranty or the" color" or "style" it is strictly dollars for coverage not a warm blankie.

It is also not logical to pay 60g for something worth 30g 3 years later but i allow for this; falling for the ride, color, or style with a car or motorcycle . I can see the emotion in this but not the insurance policy.
I am extremely happy to say we are free to make our own choices here and can spent our hard earned money how we wish.