Im thinkin 350 small block ...go ahead hate on me now .

Post by **cnichols** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:27 am

Basic1 wrote:
I too am doing this swap. I honestly can't justify the cost of purchasing an LSx motor that is essentially the same kind of motor as it predecessors in aluminum casting. Weight savings? Not worth it dollar-for-dollar, and definitely not a significant difference between the iron and aluminum blocks weight-wise. I'll be using a 5-speed for my transmission in this project. I'll post pictures as the project progresses.

Put the III/IV Gen small blocks next to a I Gen and take both apart. I think you'll want to rethink your statement.

Also, with an aluminum block, aluminum heads(much better flowing as well), and a composite intake that weighs like 5 lbs., you'll start to see that the weight savings might actually be worth it when you factor in how much more power it can make with minor mods. Not to mention, you get a VERY strong 6 speed transmission to boot, it's really tough to justify going w/ the 1st gen small block. Granted, mods are cheaper, but I really think if you got familiar with the engine, you would understand the popularity.

Post by **Basic1** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:47 pm

Given the price points between the two I probably wouldn't rethink anything. Yes, they changed the mains to six bolt rather than four, different head design (square four bolt pattern rather than pentagonal), reverse flow cooling, aluminum casting, different ignition and intake configurations...but from what I've researched I'm not gaining that much more by using that $4000 or more and putting it towards a Gen I block rather than an LSx engine.

Forced induction will eliminate the composite intake benefit (which is planned for the future), and yes the head design stock for stock is of course much better, but I'm not going to be using the stock iron heads anyhow. The Gen I blocks don't provide a disadvantage I feel because initial cost is considerably less than an LSx motor. Everyone praises the fact that they are a lighter motor, but not that much lighter. Those claims of a dressed LS1 weighing less than a dressed KA drivetrain is speculative to say the least (I don't believe they're including the transmission in those claims either); overall weight isn't a strong enough argument I feel. anyone want to go LSx, would never suggest against it. When doing things the way I plan to, it made for sense for me to stick with the Gen I block. Moreover, I can't ever say cost isn't an issue for anyone in this game...it's always an issue.

Post by **WDRacing** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:48 am

The LQ series iron block is the exact same block as the LSx but it came in the trucks. Perhaps you should price those out as well. They weigh 75lbs more then the LS but have been priced considerably lower in Car Craft and Hot Rod magazines.

Just an idea...If I can find one I'd go with that over the Alum version...assuming I save some cash.

WD

Post by **Basic1** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:27 pm

I hear you WD, they are overall a cheaper way to go rather than the LS blocks, but seeing as how the previous owner of my Gen I block practically gave it to me, and it's unmolested (bone stock), I am on my way to having a very affordable 500hp car. I would like to go manual transmission, but there is a kit that converts your auto tranny into a paddle shifted transmission. Really neat product; they have paddles that will mount to your steering column in typical BMW fashion and electronically controls the shifts in your automatic transmission. Will have to look for the URL when I get a chance.

Post by **XofXtimeX** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:27 am

Hinson had the KA weighed to 596 pounds with tranny and the ls1 at 470 with it's trans on it also.

As far as that weight being speculative. It's obviously there. I just pulled my Ka out the other night and we had it and the trans on the same pallet the ls1 was on and it was obviously much more difficult to move with the same people.

Post by **Basic1** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:05 pm

As far as front sump's concerned on the Gen I blocks, going with a Nova front sump oil pan/pickup combo may be an idea. Clearance should be more than sufficient for the S13/S14 chassis. I've seen them sell on Ebay for good prices, new and used.

Post by **BOOM_STICK** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:24 pm

do eeeeeeeeeetttt!!! sounds like it will make one bad a$$ car.

im gonna be looking at a 350 some time this week for my swap (which hopefully should be done before the new year... hopefully)

Post by **Logan76** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:29 pm

Do it, think eagle 383 stroker kits are only like 900$ for that thing too...whew.

Post by **the_momo** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:30 pm

Logan76 wrote:Do it, think eagle 383 stroker kits are only like 900$ for that thing too...whew.

forged with a crank is just shy of 1500.

Post by **Basic1** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:19 pm

Yes, rotating assemblies are very affordable. I'm not sure if I'll stroke the motor or not, because with a F/I application I don't feel the need for more cubes. Forged rods and pistons go for great prices nowadays though. Moreover, 5.7 liters is plenty to maintain a low, responsive boost threshold.

Post by **OutToWinPAHC** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:28 pm

Stroking is fun. Its takes some tuning however. Im saving now for my LS 240 planning on stroking to 408CI at 11.5:1 pistons with 72CC heads. Well Id just get a new long block. But should see 500-550 horse at approx 6000 more bucks

Post by **Basic1** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:20 pm

That's a pretty penny, but not as much as the MTI stroker packages, they're too rich for my blood: http://www.motorsporttech.com/. Even if I had the funds, I'm not spending $20K on a N/A GTO.

Post by **stan d** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:38 pm

I have had a LT1 with a T5 5spd in my s13 for 2years now and the total weight is 2729 with me and 1/2 tank of gas .It has 360 hp to the tires and gets 25mpg And I built the car for $1800 stan

Post by **Basic1** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:00 pm

Nice numbers. I'm going to be swapping on LT1 heads and intake to my 1st gen block. I want to stroke it to a 383 and keep the compression nominal (10.0:1) so I don't have to go with aftermarket heads. Without stroking guys have been putting down numbers similar to yours. One question though: did you modify anything in your T5, or is that a stock transmission? I figured on hunting down a six-speed but that would postpone the project's projected completion date.

Post by **N053B133D** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:11 pm

Somebody said something about emissions earlier in the thread....

Running E85 you'd pass emissions no problem. I'm not sure exactly what all you have to do, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. It kinda kills your gas mileage though.

One other thing about the T5 you guys might want to know - The way the synchros are cut, you can do as many gnarly upshifts into second as you want, but you have to be careful downshifting to second. Either rev-match it perfectly, or slip the clutch a bit more than usual. After about 100-200 bad downshifts they'll start making noise.

Post by **zzcoupezz** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:22 pm

anything new happening. i too have been thinking about doin a swap with a small block 350.

a friend of mine has one, and we had mentioned trying it. but im not sure what all needs to be done as far as wiring, and if the gauges will still work or if i have to go with external gauges. i know ill need to get a low pressure fuel pump. im guessing ill need a custom driveshaft. thats about all i know. oh and what about the shifter?

Post by **zzcoupezz** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:17 pm

anybody still check this thread?

Post by **1unar3clipse** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:39 pm

350 invented the aftermarket. you can do so farking much to a 350 now its unbelievable.

My brother has a slightly built LT1 out of his old 94 formula trans-am if your interested. hes been pressuring me to shove it in my hatch since I bought it.

Post by **Davidss** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:27 pm

zzcoupezz wrote:a friend of mine has one, and we had mentioned trying it. but im not sure what all needs to be done as far as wiring

If you go with carbs the wiring is insanely easy, one wire to the alternator, two to the starter, one to the distributor.

zzcoupezz wrote:and if the gauges will still work or if i have to go with external gauges.

You could make the stock cluster work but it would be a PITA and definitely not for a wiring noob. For temp just add a Nissan coolant sensor, for speed/tach you would need one of those speedo correctors with a very wide range. It's a lot easier to go with external gages or a stack style digital cluster. If you did go with external gages you could use a volt meter to replace your gas gage.

zzcoupezz wrote:i know ill need to get a low pressure fuel pump

Mallory makes a return style FPR that can 'step-down' from fuel injected 50psi (or so) to a carb friendly 5-15psi. You can mount it in the trunk, and then only have one line to the engine bay (you can use one of the 2 stock steel lines).

zzcoupezz wrote:im guessing ill need a custom driveshaft.

Yep, expect $100-200 and a few days wait to have this made. This part was really worrying me because I thought I would have to be really accurate in the measurement, but since domestics have solid rear axles that move around the driveshaft has to move in and out of the transmission, so the measurement can be within 2 inches or so and work perfectly. Also the stock 240sx driveshaft is 2 parts with a carrier bearing in the middle, you could eliminate this and have a driveshaft shop build one full length driveshaft (this might handle more power?), I just replaced the first half and connected it to the carrier bearing.

Also make sure to buy a SHORT WATER pump and related pulleys. You're biggest problem really is the oil pan but there may be a early nova pan that would be a simple solution (I've never seen the pan up close with a 240 chassis nearby I went dry sump instead). If you really are going to go through with the swap pm me for my email which I check more often.

Post by **WDRacing** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:10 am

Good to see you pop back in Dave. You're a smart dude and explain things very well, wish you'd come in here more often.

WD

Post by **zzcoupezz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:58 pm

Davidss wrote:If you go with carbs the wiring is insanely easy, one wire to the alternator, two to the starter, one to the distributor.

You could make the stock cluster work but it would be a PITA and definitely not for a wiring noob. For temp just add a Nissan coolant sensor, for speed/tach you would need one of those speedo correctors with a very wide range. It's a lot easier to go with external gages or a stack style digital cluster. If you did go with external gages you could use a volt meter to replace your gas gage.

Mallory makes a return style FPR that can 'step-down' from fuel injected 50psi (or so) to a carb friendly 5-15psi. You can mount it in the trunk, and then only have one line to the engine bay (you can use one of the 2 stock steel lines).

Yep, expect $100-200 and a few days wait to have this made. This part was really worrying me because I thought I would have to be really accurate in the measurement, but since domestics have solid rear axles that move around the driveshaft has to move in and out of the transmission, so the measurement can be within 2 inches or so and work perfectly. Also the stock 240sx driveshaft is 2 parts with a carrier bearing in the middle, you could eliminate this and have a driveshaft shop build one full length driveshaft (this might handle more power?), I just replaced the first half and connected it to the carrier bearing.

Also make sure to buy a SHORT WATER pump and related pulleys. You're biggest problem really is the oil pan but there may be a early nova pan that would be a simple solution (I've never seen the pan up close with a 240 chassis nearby I went dry sump instead). If you really are going to go through with the swap pm me for my email which I check more often.

thanks man. im not doin the swap real soon, for money reasons. but when i do i will definately email you. thanks again.

Post by **sedoken** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:58 pm

I was thinking of that swap too but with an s14, only thing that i was thinking about is this. weight distrubution. the SBC is a fatass, even by KA standards, so if all the weight is in the front, what's going to keep it gripping in the rear?

i would say go with something lighter, of course i may be wrong with the weight distribution, but even in drag races i think you would still have problems.

LS1? or maybe even an LT1, but i'm not sure how heavy those are.

i was actually considering taking a 84-86 300zx (Z31) and swapping a SBC into it and running it around 300-400hp (wheel or whatever i wouldn't really care as long as i got it running good for a starter).

Post by **boznuttz** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:01 pm

Some of the cast iron SBC weigh in at similar numbers to the KA.

Keep in mind guys, if you don't mind doing a little welding here and there, you can mount any engine combo further back to have an evenly distributed weight distribution.

On an e21 with an LS1, my friend just cut out the transmission tunnel and fabbed up his x member so that the weight distribution was just about 50/50.

The ENTIRE engine was behind the front axle, lol!The biggest issue he had was when we cut out the driver floor to weld in some 3/16 inch mild steel sheetmetal with 1/4 inch tubular steel in a 1 inch square to reinforce the floor. He was able to drill right into the tubular steel to install the rails.

Post by **Davidss** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:22 am

sedoken wrote:I was thinking of that swap too but with an s14, only thing that i was thinking about is this. weight distrubution. the SBC is a fatass, even by KA standards, so if all the weight is in the front, what's going to keep it gripping in the rear?

My V8 240sx with both iron block and heads weighed in at 2880 with a full tank of gas, 2 fire extinguishers, and a toolbox. Without that extra weight it would be around 2825 and a stock 240sx is around 2775. Front rear weight balance was the same as stock (but that was with a giant dry sump tank in the trunk (25 pounds-ish). Everything unnecessary in the engine bay was cut out and the battery was relocated to the trunk, this was also with out power steering or AC, but with a heavy dry sump system and 25 quarts of oil.

Im thinkin 350 small block ...go ahead hate on me now .

Re: (Basic1)

Re: (cnichols)

Re: (WDRacing)

Re: (Basic1)

Re:

Re: Re: (Basic1)

Re: (Logan76)

Re: (Basic1)

Re: (OutToWinPAHC)

Re: v8 swap

Re: v8 swap (stan d)

Re: v8 swap

Re: v8 swap (N053B133D)

Re: v8 swap (zzcoupezz)

Re: Im thinkin 350 small block ...go ahead hate on me now . (vroom-chirp)

Re: v8 swap (zzcoupezz)

Re: v8 swap (Davidss)

Re: Im thinkin 350 small block ...go ahead hate on me now . (vroom-chirp)

Re: Im thinkin 350 small block ...go ahead hate on me now . (sedoken)

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