Im SICK of my POS Open Diff

General discussion forum about the 240sx, and a great place to introduce yourself to the board!
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FinkenS14
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Tired. Done. Exhausted of it. My f**kin grama car 1999 Monte Carlo had a better diff then this POS.

For a cheap option right now, I just wanna get it welded. I have a few buddies that can weld, but we're both unsure of the process and what parts to weld. Hell, I dont even know how a RWD differential works.

So any info would be great. Also, opinions from those with welded differentials.


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ScrapMetal
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What is "exhausting" you about your open diff?

SeVa-S13
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Metaru_Gia wrote:What is "exhausting" you about your open diff?
It's probably not as jdm tyte as he'd prefer for busting them phatty slidez, dawg.

Meh, welding a diff isn't rocket science but I'm not a fan of it on car's that get daily'd.

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Ghast
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OP, i am not sure so do not quote me on this. But i think White Comet sells them.

May want to look him up.

One Love,

Ghasty

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FinkenS14
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Hmmm this lsit cud go on forever

Coming out of turns with tiny bits of gravel.Spinning in snow foreverEndless traction problems

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xrproto07
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Go to the junkyard and get a J-30 LSD off a 95 and up they are supposed to be a bolt on affair.

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TroubleBound
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Read the diff section you can find on the homepage or whatever it says you can find one on a 240 that had lsd (HICAS, ABS 240's, etc.) or you can get one off a j30 but youl have to get the axleshafts too cause theyre 8 bolts not 6. Or you could do what im about to and buy something aftermarket, like a kaaz or tomei. GL though i have open too and i agree with the suckiness, heh my bro has a z28 camaro and when me and him go messing around in the parking lot they laugh at my little one wheel tire marks haha.

EDIT: Here it is bro: Technical Articles > Differential swaps for the 240sx

by movingviolation240

First things first, what is an LSD? It stands for Limited Slip Differential, why is this important? Because it allows your car to get an incredible holeshot due to increased traction. The differential is the thing in the rear of the car that splits the power coming from the driveshaft up between the 2 rear tires.

Now the factory 240 (with a few exceptions) use what's called an 'open rear end'. In this setup both tires are basically free to spin at whatever speed they want to, this has one good side and a bad side. The good side is that when going around a turn the tires don't 'scrub' or 'hop' around since they will be traveling at different speeds (outside tire has farther to go so it spins faster). If you had a solid axle (or welded the 2 halves of the differential together) you would have killer grip in a straight line but handling would be extremely bad. The bad side of the open rear end is that since both tires are free to spin at whatever speed they want, whichever tire has less grip (the one spinning) will get more power transferred to it which will cause it to spin more, which will cause it to loose more grip and spin more which............. anyhow it's not a good cycle.

The LSD comes into play right here, LIMITED SLIP comes to the rescue by stopping the loss in grip by recognizing that one tire is spinning and then transferring the power to the other wheel that has grip. The type of rear end I'm using is called a Viscous LSD which means it uses silicone and 2 plates to operate. The simplified explanation of how this works is that there is a plate stuck on the end of each shaft. These plates spin at the same speed as the wheel they are attached to. When one wheel looses grip and starts to spin faster it creates friction between the two plates due to the difference in speed. This friction heats up the silicone floating around causing it to expand. When the silicone expands it pushes on the other plate 'locking' it to the one that's spinning. This locking is what causes the other wheel to push.

The fact that both wheels are now pushing is VERY apparent while driving. My friend's turbo 240 dropped a full second off his quarter mile time after I installed an LSD from an Infiniti J30 into it. My car can be launched at 5,500 RPM's by sidestepping the clutch and flooring it with almost no wheelspin. But this isn't just useful to dragracers, the difference while autocrossing is even more pronounced. The car can start accelerating earlier and harder out of corners than you could ever hope to do with an open differential. Lastly the car is much smoother to drift (but it dose take a lot more power to get the rear end to start coming around).

Now that you know what an LSD is I'm sure you want to know where to get one. The easiest way is to find a 240sx with one on it already and take it. There is a lot of talk about what year and options a 240 has to have to be equipped with an LSD. From what I've heard SE's with ABS, HICAS, or S14 5 lug SE's w/ ABS all should have the LSD. Canadian 240's also have VLSD (all of them). The easiest way to check is that the LSD will have an orange sticker above the fill hole that identifies it as an LSD. Also if you turn one side the other should turn the same direction. You'll also notice that the LSD is harder to spin by hand than the open differential. If your like me you can't find a 240 in a scrap yard anyplace with an LSD in it, so you have to improvise.......... here comes the fun part. The R200V (VLSD) differential is used in the Infiniti J30, and Z32 300zx. The Infiniti one has an ABS sensor at the front which adds about an inch to the length of it. The flanges for the halfshafts (the shafts that go to the wheels) are the same pattern for the 95 and up J30's (pre '95 used a different pattern at least on the ones I saw in the yard) Also if you own an S13 (89-94) you will need to get a new differential cover gasket and swap the rear cover off your R200 (stock diff) onto the new one. The S13's used a different bolt pattern (4 bolts) than the S14 (2 bolts). The 90+ 300zx one also fits but takes more work. First thing DO NOT get the twin turbo diff, it's got different gear ratio's in it and it will really slow your car down (3.86) The NON turbo has the same ratio as the 240 (4.06). The 300sx also uses the 2 bolt rear cover so if you own an S13 you'll need to switch it. The biggest problem with the 300zx is that the output flanges are different. The look like a '5 star' flange where the 240sx uses 3 sets of 2. The parts to convert a 300 to a 240 can be had for around 200-300 new. I got mine at a scrap yard for 150.

The M30 and Q45 diff's also work with the same basic modifications I mentioned earlier. The big thing to look for is the flanges, they need to be the 3 sets of 2 or you will have to replace them.

The install is pretty straightforward, just unbolt the stock diff and then stick the new one in. The hard part is getting the new diff up and in place so you can bolt it on (these things are HEAVY). I needed another guy to help me and 2 jacks to get the thing where I wanted it. Care must be taken when tightening it down that it's level when you start tightening so that you don't' crack the cover. I hung it in the back by sticking the studs on the cover through their holes and then lining up the bolts in the front and tightening them down then I put the nuts on the rear. After that put on the 6 bolts on each side that holds the flanges to the driveshaft. Finally bolt the driveshaft to the differential.

While you have it out I highly recommend changing the fluid in diff while you have it out since it's a major pain to do it while it's still in the car. You MUST use either a fluid designed for LSD (royal purple or Redline) or add the LSD additive (this additive contains the silicone I mentioned earlier that heats up to make the differential lock up). Another thing you might want to do at this point is take the bottom drain plug off the stock diff and put it on the new one at the filler point. The bottom plug has a magnet on it that picks up metal shavings floating around in the case, it's not really necessary but since your throwing the other diff out anyhow you might as well keep the magnet for the new one to help keep stuff from floating around the case.

Car and modifications required:

240sx W/ LSD: No mods needed if it is NON ABS300ZX 90+ Non Turbo: Needs new output flanges (4.08)300ZX 90+ Turbo: Needs new output flanges and gears are higher (3.69)Infiniti J30 95+: No mods needed (3.96)Infiniti J30 pre-95: Needs new output flangesInfiniti M30: No mods neededInfiniti Q45: No mods needed (3.69)

Driftsamurai
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i daily a welded diff with no problems even in the rain

SR24DET
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STEP 1Removal process:-Disconnect drive shaft bolts-Disconnect axel bolts-Unbolt diff from subframe-spend 20 hours d!ck around trying to pull out the diff

STEP 2:-use socket wrench to open drain plug and drain diff-remove outside bolts and take off backing plates

Now everything is visable. Take a look inside and spin the axels and the driveshaft flages. If you are mechanically inclined you should gain a relative understanding of how it works. Weld the spider gears. Some remove the gears, some dont, but probly want to remove it.

Step 3:-clean the diff and make sure there arent any metal shavings or **** in the diff.-put gasket or RTV on there and rebolt the backing plate on diff.-Refill with diff fluid. Go to tech page to make sure you buy the correct fluid. http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id=114085

Step 4:-Install. Work backwords from step one. Dont tighten any of the bolts too hard untill everything is connected. Getting the axels and everything to pop in and out takes a little perswaysion.-This is not like an LSD. There is no brake in figure 8's and chaging the fluid.

You can do it yourself. I did. I had one friend with me but he just talked with me while I worked on it. I removed it my self. NOW, just to warn you. You can pull it out yourself but it is kinda heavy. I had blocks of wood under my diff to rest on while I was removeing the last of the bolts. so you can easily lift it out yourself, just be prepaired that is kinda heavy.

I hope this is helpfull. Heres a few pics of me doing it.

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I'm Redline
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I found this thread with the search. So as not to polute the rest of the forum with a question that can b eanswered here:

I have a 1996 240SX SE(loaded) with the OEM LSD and an auto trans. WHAT is the OEM gear ratio of my LSD? I checked by making a 1st gear brake/gas check and had two very dark lines, so LSD was indeed confirmed and it does handle like a typical LSD in the corners. I just need to know the ratio as it came from teh factory because I may change it if it's too high(<3.55) Optimum for me would be around a 4.36 for when I go manual swap, adn since the auto has the button to stop OD, it won't hurt the OD too bad in teh auto by swapping out to a lower ratio

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kouki munster
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The stock ratio is 4.08.

pella
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Go to a junkyard, I paid $60 for a J30 diff (VLSD). If you get from a 95, direct bolt on. You wont need to get axles. :chuckle:

Note- final drive ratio is just a little bit different. Its been 2 years, I do not remember exactly what it is.

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kouki munster
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3.90

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I'm Redline
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4.08, not bad then. That's why it moves out pretty quick. Thank you. How tough is it to change out the basic gears for say a 4.11 - 4.36(basic numbers being x.11, .25, .36, .40, .56, etc)

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The_caveman
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xrproto07 wrote:Go to the junkyard and get a J-30 LSD off a 95 and up they are supposed to be a bolt on affair.

close enough if you googled it and cant figure it out your blind and a monkey

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The_caveman
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pella wrote:Go to a junkyard, I paid $60 for a J30 diff (VLSD). If you get from a 95, direct bolt on. You wont need to get axles. :chuckle:

Note- final drive ratio is just a little bit different. Its been 2 years, I do not remember exactly what it is.

Its a minor difference. i have one myself

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OutToWinPAHC
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Image

h2v7
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i have drifted an open nice before

ashibah83
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h2v7 wrote:i have drifted an open nice before
:orly:

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speedracer240sxguy
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Z33 - MT - R200 - 3.538
Z33 - MT - R200V - 3.538
Z33 - AT - R200V - 3.357
Z32TT - R230V - 3.692
Z32 - R200V - 4.083
G35 - Sedan - AT - R200 - 3.357
G35 - Sedan - MT - R200V - 3.538
G35 - Sedan - AWD - AT - R200 - 3.357
G35 - Coupe - MT - R200V - 3.538
G35 - Coupe - AT - R200 - 3.357
G35 - Coupe - AT - R200V - 3.357
Q45 - G50 - R200V - 3.538
Q45 - FY33 - R200V - 3.692
R32 GTR - RB26DETT - MT - F160 - 4.111 - (Front Final Gear)
R32 GTR - RB26DETT - MT - R200 (Mechanical LSD) - 4.111
S15 - MT - R200H - 3.692
S15 - AT - R200V - 3.916
S14 - KA24DE - 4.083
S14 - SR20DET - MT - R200V - 3.692
S14 - SR20DET - AT - R200V - 3.915
S13 - KA24DE - 4.083 - (Both R200 and R200V

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charat
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No offense, but if you or none of your buddies don't even know how to weld an open diff... you shouldn't be needing/wanting/HAVING a welded diff in the first place...

95s14green
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i welded my open diff with my buddy and dailyied it for about 6 months with no problem. best thing to do is to do what everyone else is saying and go to a junkyard and get a 95 j30 diff or a 300z diff. the problem with the j30's is that they are .75" longer than your open or a 300z diff. 300z diffs (z32) and j30 diffs are the same (they are called "r200" diffs) matt powers ran a j30 diff for a while so thats telling you something...but back to what i was talking about with the j30 diffs. because they are .75" longer sometimes your drivetrain cant soak up that extra 3/4ths of an inch. my car couldnt but thats prolly cause i have a '95 s14 with a '90 sohc trans in it and i also replaced my subframe bushings with energy suspension ones...so i would go with a z32 diff but that means you have to swap axles.

95s14green
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h2v7 wrote:i have drifted an open nice before
on a rainy day with 60 psi in your tires... ;)

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OutToWinPAHC
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95s14green wrote:i welded my open diff with my buddy and dailyied it for about 6 months with no problem. best thing to do is to do what everyone else is saying and go to a junkyard and get a 95 j30 diff or a 300z diff. the problem with the j30's is that they are .75" longer than your open or a 300z diff. 300z diffs (z32) and j30 diffs are the same (they are called "r200" diffs) matt powers ran a j30 diff for a while so thats telling you something...but back to what i was talking about with the j30 diffs. because they are .75" longer sometimes your drivetrain cant soak up that extra 3/4ths of an inch. my car couldnt but thats prolly cause i have a '95 s14 with a '90 sohc trans in it and i also replaced my subframe bushings with energy suspension ones...so i would go with a z32 diff but that means you have to swap axles.
but you need different axles for a R200 z32. And you can get new ujoints and your driveshaft shortened for about 120 bucks

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SX APPEAL
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too bored and drunk to go into detail, but take it from a guy who has done a LOT of LSD installations, don't try to put a J30 vlsd (abs) in place of a standard (non abs) 240sx open diff (casing and all) because the drivetrain CANNOT, repeat CAN f*** ING NOT absorb the extra 3/4's of an inch in the snout where the abs speed sensor is located. I remember this bit of internet genius s*** misinformation going around a few years ago and I don't want to see it restarted now. If you buy a vlsd in an abs casing (J30 or S13) you had better make damned sure you have the drive shaft or casing to match. That is all, please don't f*** up your cars on my account


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