Ignition timing.....

[USDM_OneVia]

Ugh..... I've had enough.

I set my timing at 15 degrees per the factory manual, set it when cold, rechecked when car was hot, still at 15 degrees. Well... the car runs like crap. Hard starting, missing when cold, and it has a dead spot right when it transfers over to boost from vacuum. I can get on the gas, but there is a slight dip in the power and then it is hold onto your hats......

Now, if the timing is dialed back to almost 25 btdc, it idles smoother, runs better during warmup, and has a smoother powerband, but not as powerful as when the timing is advanced.

What am I doing wrong here? I know I can't run it that far retarded because a rich condition and not enough timing is a recipe for detonation. Any ideas?

Also, I have noticed that the temp gauge does stay at about 1 bar higher than my stock KA does on the cluster. Could this heating problem affect my timing/running issue? I am at my wits end here..... I finally get the car running half way decent, and it is just little things I am cleaning up now.

Also, any ideas on a "fast idle" during startup? Mine likes to idle at about 550 rpms when cold, and is like a rock at 800 when warm (where I set it at). Almighty Dee want to chime in here???

Joe

[float_6969]

I had to take my idel bypass valve out tonight cuz it was stuck open and wouldn't idle any lower than 1100. It's going to be a ***** to start now, but you might look at you AAC valve. It should idle at about 1200 when cold and come down to 800-900 when warm. Mine also sits right at the same place my KA did, but I put in a colder Thermostat.

[slw240sx]

temp sensor needs replacing ? , also your bypass valve under the thermo housing might need taken out or changed,

[boost_boy]

Quote »Almighty Dee want to chime in here???[/quote] Given the age of our beloved CA, the components attached to it usually makes a pain in the chops to deal with. The Idle Air Control Valve or Air regulator (IACV) can be a big culprit with the performance of the CA18DET. Unless you purchase a new one, you're asking for the same problem over and over again. I can't stress this enough that the air regulator determines yay or nay with the CA, SR and even the VG series. Another thing, if you know your cam timing is spot on and your ecu is not tossing up code 11 or 13, I would definitely look at the position of the TPS. Unless you hook up a voltmeter and properly test the idle output as well as the W.O.T. output, you will be scartching all the hair out of your hair. I used to experience these issues you're having as well and this is one of the reason nissan killed production of this motor and that's because all of it's little components are expensive and prone to failure. I got fed up with the factory parts and went with the SDS (problem solved). If you can find a good IACV regulator, then you may be in luck for a while. I used to have a good one somewhere in my house and I'll check and see if I still have it. And the butterfly valves' solenoid needs to be hooked-up in sequence with a restrictive orifice to the actuator. Or you can hook the hose actuator to direct vacuum.

[USDM_OneVia]

...... but I put in a colder Thermostat.

From what application? From an SR?

Joe

[r34 gtr]

on the subject of idle. my car is really sporatic. sometimes it will idle at 850, sometimes 1100, and sometimes 1600. its always one of these 3, but there is no real pattern of it choosing one. i am almost dead sure its the afc. it does hold the rpm at 1500 when its in gear and and at zero throttle though. handy for parking lots (2nd gear, no work, just cruises through at 10mph) and at stop lights when im a moron and mess up pulling away.

- tim

[float_6969]

From what application? From an SR?

Joe

Nope, autozone, I was impressed. It's not as cold as the NISMO on, but it's colder than stock.

[slw240sx]

so if my IACV is goin bad it can cause blippy idles, boost leak type symptons stall outs? blahhhhhhh i had the car up an running for 2hr on teh Z32 maf, ran awsome!!!! killed a ls integra from a dig and a roll, today pop pop bang bang smoke sputter die sputter die pop f this caR

[float_6969]

Hey, you wanna make a chip for me so I can use my 550's? Hehehe

[USDM_OneVia]

Jon,

We are dumb..... reread your FSM. That loop in the back of the head is for idle/mixture control NOT for ignition timing. To properly time the ignition, you have to either run a spark plug wire from the number 1 coil to the spark plug and hook your lead up there, or buy a special tool from Nissan that bypasses the ignitor and check the timing there. I am going to do the spark plug wire method tomorrow and repost back my timing results.

If I am correct in my assumptions, the timing is WAY retarded on both of our cars since we are using the wrong place to time them at.

Joe

[r34 gtr]

yow. that sucks. ive always used a wire i ghetto-rigged onto the coil and plug, got it off my old ka. ill bet it is waaay retarded, just like my brain. ever snort lines of pixy stix? it hurts. the red ones are the worst by far, the blue ones are quite smooth and the others are sort of in between. (i just got bored and had a dozen of them. ill hate myself in the morning/when i get cancer).

- tim

[xyster]

I timed my ca with a plug off the KA electrical taped onto the #1 coil. Who knows if I timed it right...it runs great when warm, so I guess I did. Just a warning: don't try to hold the plug wire onto the coil while someone else does the timing; coil packs make pretty little purple lightning bolts that like to jump to fingers.

[slw240sx]

joe, TMS , told me to just use that loop in the back , but ill read through it! if your right ill re time my motor too, but i could never get a reading doing that way, also i jsut got the MAF on and the 450s go in on thurs , im ordering like 100$ worth of real silicone couplers and 100$ worth of Tbolt clamps ... time for another boat trip then the motor goes out for the machining work, and the head for the head works

[float_6969]

Joe, that loop at the plug for the coil pack sub harness IS there for the timing. That is what I used to set mine and mine runs great. I'm at work right now, but I read that part of it about 12 times to make sure.

[USDM_OneVia]

I am looking at the FSM right now, and it has the picture of the loop, and in the heading of the section it says word for word.....

Checking ignition timing and idle speedChecking idle speedM/T 850 +- 50 rpmA/T 850 +- 50 rpm ( in "N" position)If idle speed is not within specific value, refer to IDLE SPEED/IGNITION TIMING/IDLE MIXTURE INSPECTION.

*METHOD A (WITH PULSE TYPE TACHOMETERClamp loop wire as shown

And then is shows the picture of the clamp around the wire in the back....

A few lines down it says......

CHECKING IGNITION TIMINGIgnition timing: 15 +- 2 BTDCIf ignition timing is not within specific value, adjust ignition timing as show.

Then there is a picture of the CAS with clockwise RETARDING the timing and counterclockwise ADVANCING the timing

*METHOD A (Without Tool)1. Remove ornament cover2. Remove No. 1 ignition coil3. Connect No. 1 ignition coil and No. 1 spark plug with suitable high-tension wire as shown, and clamp this wire with a timing light clamp4. Check ignition timing

I I I I I I with the bold I being 15 BDTC

5. Install No. 1 Ignition coil and ornament cover.

*Method B (With Tool KV109D10S0)

1. Disconnect connector of power transistor unit2. Connect tool and clamp wire as shown.

Align direction marks on Tool and timing light clamp if aligning mark is punched

And that is it folks..... only 2 methods of checking the ignition timing and neither one of the mention using the loop in the back. Don't believe me? Bust your FSM's and turn to pages EF & EC 22-24.

Joe

[chezina]

Jon,

We are dumb..... reread your FSM. That loop in the back of the head is for idle/mixture control NOT for ignition timing. To properly time the ignition, you have to either run a spark plug wire from the number 1 coil to the spark plug and hook your lead up there, or buy a special tool from Nissan that bypasses the ignitor and check the timing there. I am going to do the spark plug wire method tomorrow and repost back my timing results.

If I am correct in my assumptions, the timing is WAY retarded on both of our cars since we are using the wrong place to time them at.

Joe

The loop actually works (although the FSM says it's for something different), i always used the spark wire into coilpack method until i saw the sticky in here, i gave it a try and the timing light shows the same result (and i like using the loop, cause u don't need to unscrew anything to check the timing ) ).

[USDM_OneVia]

The loop is wrong.

I just timed the car using the coil pack/plug wire method and it was almost 15 degrees too retarded. I set the timing to 15 degrees using this method, and for ****s and giggles, I recheck it using the loop method. Sure enough, the timing mark is WAY off the crank pulley lines now.

So if you set the timing by the loop method, you are 15 degrees too retarded. It is like night and freakin day difference now. Car idles a bit smoother, revs a lot more smoother and also with less hesitation. And it absolutely hauls balls now.

Don't believe me? Go and check for yourselves and prove me wrong. But those are the only 2 correct ways to do it. The loop is NOT a correct way to time it.

Joe

[nismoplsr]

hmmmmm

that explains it

thats y when tuning my haltech i ended up with like 30 deg timing

hmmm

[slw240sx]

i cant really advance mine anymore! mines almost completely c*cked to one side. ill check it tomrrow when we start tearing off all my IC stuff and redoing it all blah more money not goin towards my motor work

[float_6969]

I'll do it with the spark plug wire and see if there is a difference. Mine seems to run pretty well, but we'll see.

[USDM_OneVia]

My CAS is now almost fully counterclockwise, which would be like the distributor on my KA. It will only allow you to go so far advanced before you blow something up, safetly issue. But you can retard the hell out of it.

Again, just check them with the method's shown above.

And why does it censor ****???..... that's pretty craptastic.

Joe

[float_6969]

It's for the chillins...

[float_6969]

I know I'm rehasing an old thread, but I owe USDM_OneVia an apology. He is correct that the loop isn't accurate. I think i just got lucky when I did it the first time. I also didn't have my detination sensor wired up (I have no idea how I missed it). I was running real crappy, so I checked the codes on the ecu and got the dreaded 34. I started doing some checking and realized that I had completely forgotten to wire the plug up. So I got wired up and checked my timing at it was all messed up. So I set it right at 15*BTDC using the loop. It felt like it was running poorly and I could tell the timing was retarded. So I did it properly tonight and it came out to be at...are you ready for this...3*BTDC. Yea, thats a 12* difference. So Joe, you are right, I am wrong. I Bow down before you and beg humbly for your forgiveness!

[boost_boy]

Quote »So I did it properly tonight and it came out to be at...are you ready for this...3*BTDC.[/quote] Dumbass:beatfreak

[float_6969]

Well at least I wasn't running it 30* advanced!!!

[paul_s13]

All these problems sound like a dodgy CAS OR worn drive teeth on the exhaust cam, i've seen it so many times with CA's but at least it was easy to get another for £20 rather than a new one from Nissan for £700+

[boost_boy]

It's funny that I over-read the post where people were setting their timing using the silly loop (My bad). I guess since I've abondoned the stock fuel and ignition system, I don't pay it much mind anymore. One should always keep an extra coil prepared with a spark plug wire attached to it with electrical tape with it's main purpose for checking timing. Any other method is obsolete and dangerous. Listen to manuals, they know best for somethings especially electrical stuff.

Dee

[float_6969]

I know, I know! But that loop is so quick, and easy, and INNACURATE! Oh well, lesson learned. Don't be a lazy azz.

[Spectre23]

So is what the sticky thread says wrong? It says:"The inductive pickup on the timing light goes to the loop of black wire on the coil harness(YOU DO NOT HAVE TO REMOVE THE COILS TO SHOOT TIME ON THESE ENGINES)"

[float_6969]

Yes it is. I'll email this to Sean and have him change it. I didn't realize that was on a sticky...