If I suddenly disappear, here's why:

A place for intelligent and well-thought-out discussion involving politics and associated topics. No nonsense will be tolerated at all.
User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71102
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

As some of you may know, one of the projects I've been working on (at work) is the Medical Marijuana Initiative... (I know, stodgy old conservative me, right? ;) ).

This might make for some interesting news in the coming months, and we're right in the middle of it:

Medical marijuana: Federal pressure stirs legal confusion

Raids in other states lead to uncertainty for Arizona

by Mary K. Reinhart and Craig Anderson - Apr. 21, 2011 12:00 AM The Arizona Republic

Threatened medical-marijuana crackdowns by federal prosecutors in other states have stoked fears about whether state employees, dispensary owners and others could be punished for operating under Arizona's fledgling law.

Although the Justice Department said in 2009 that it would not prosecute sick people using medical marijuana, U.S. attorneys in California and Washington state have told officials there that they do intend to enforce federal laws that prohibit manufacture and distribution of the drug.

That has led to more confusion as Arizona officials begin implementing a voter-approved law allowing medical-marijuana dispensaries, which took effect April 14.
Arizona U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke's office says it will offer guidance this week for state officials.

Arizona's medical-marijuana statute, like those in 14 other states, conflicts with federal laws outlawing the cultivation, sale or use of marijuana. U.S. attorneys in Washington state say a bill expected to reach the desk of Gov. Chris Gregoire this weekend could open landlords, dispensary owners and even state employees to prosecution under federal drug laws. A U.S. attorney in California made similar comments about a city law in Oakland allowing marijuana warehouses.

The uncertainty surrounding the new state law increased reluctance for landlords to lease to dispensaries and unsettled state Department of Health Services workers. Arizona employees have processed more than 700 applications for medical-marijuana cards for users in the past week, approving 80 percent of them, and are preparing to license dispensaries and cultivation sites. Opponents of Proposition 203, which narrowly passed in November, predicted that the conflict between state and federal law will be its downfall. The employees are facilitating drug trafficking, said Carolyn Short, a retired attorney who led the campaign against Prop. 203.

"You can't allow our state employees to be criminals," Short said. "The only question is when this program gets shut down."

The 'Ogden memo'
Deputy U.S. Attorney General David Ogden sent a letter to U.S. attorneys in October 2009 indicating that, in light of the burgeoning industry and the variety of state laws, the administration didn't intend to prosecute sick people who used medical pot or the caregivers who provided it to them. But the "Ogden memo" made clear that marijuana remains illegal and that federal prosecutors will go after drug traffickers. Ogden said U.S. attorneys should decide whether to prosecute on a "case-by-case basis." Some say the memo lifted the lid on the industry. Operations in Colorado, California and elsewhere took off after it was issued.

But opponents of Arizona's Prop. 203 say those hoping to capitalize on the medical-pot industry assumed prosecutors would overlook dispensaries and growing operations.

Officials with the Justice Department said the administration's position hasn't changed. State policy makers are seeking more guidance, however, as laws are implemented, new legislation is proposed and the industry grows.

"The department has been consistent in its focus on enforcement and investigative activities involving marijuana on large-scale drug traffickers, not on individual patients with cancer or other serious diseases," said Jessica Smith, a spokeswoman for the department.

"We have made clear . . . we are not going to look the other way while significant drug-trafficking organizations attempt to shield their illegal efforts from investigation and prosecution through the pretense that they are medical dispensaries."

Other states

Washington state Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles sponsored a bill this session to regulate the state's medical-marijuana program, which voters approved in 1998. It would set up a voluntary patient registry and license medical-pot growers and sellers.
Washington's U.S. attorneys said the legislation appears to violate federal law and could put state workers at risk for prosecution. Kohl-Welles said that the Washington memo is little more than a restatement of the Ogden memo and that she doesn't believe the feds would arrest state employees. "The thought of federal agents going into an office building and arresting people who are sitting at their desks reviewing applications, that just makes no sense at all," she said.

Oakland's city attorney raised concerns in January about a city ordinance that allows marijuana-growing warehouses. Melinda Haag, U.S. attorney for the Northern District of California, said in a Feb. 1 letter that her office would consider prosecuting anyone who set up such a warehouse. "Others who knowingly facilitate the actions of the licensees, including property owners, landlords and financiers, should also know that their conduct violates federal law," Haag wrote.
The latest request for clarification came Tuesday from New Jersey Attorney General Paula Dow, who said officials were concerned about the correspondence as they prepared to finalize rules for their 2010 medical-marijuana law. A key concern, she said, was whether state employees could be subject to prosecution.
Smith said the Justice Department had not yet responded to Dow's letter.

Federal agents have recently raided dispensaries in Montana, Michigan and California.

Landlord concerns

In Arizona, fear of federal prosecution may have put a damper on the industry, although proponents say that anyone who follows state law has nothing to worry about. Commercial-property owners have been reluctant to talk publicly about whether they would accept marijuana-related businesses as tenants. But brokers say most landlords are turning them away.

Despite hundreds of inquiries on behalf of aspiring medical-marijuana growers and sellers, brokers said they were aware of only one lease deal being signed.

"It doesn't matter what I think personally," said Greg Herzner, owner of Bell Plaza office complex, at 99th Avenue and Bell Road in Phoenix. "That's too great of a risk for us to take."

Earlier this month, Michael Ormsby, U.S. attorney for Washington's Eastern District, sent notices to 40 property owners that house dispensaries, warning that they could be violating drug-trafficking laws. Ormsby told the landlords to evict the tenants within 30 days or face the risk of prosecution.

Scottsdale, AZ attorney Jordan Rose said she is not aware of any prosecutions of dispensary owners or landlords around the country who have been in compliance with state law. Still, she said, the possibility of prosecution can't be ruled out.
"It is a risk that no one can dismiss," Rose said.

Arizona response

Robbie Sherwood, a spokesman for Burke, said the U.S. attorney plans to release a statement this week to clarify enforcement of federal law in Arizona. "This office will very soon provide our own guidance regarding state medical-marijuana laws in accordance with the October 2009 Ogden memorandum," Sherwood said.
The state health department has given potential dispensary owners some advice when they've asked about how much marijuana they can grow: Call an attorney.
Arizona law limits to 12 the number of plants an individual can grow. Dispensary owners, however, are allowed to operate separate cultivation sites, and the law places no limit on the number of plants they can grow. Federal officials say large-scale operations might attract more federal scrutiny than smaller ones.

Voice of optimism

Kip Criter hopes to open a dispensary later this year in Phoenix, but he's not concerned about getting busted. Those who have been the subject of federal raids in other states were operating outside state laws, he said. "There is a threat. But if they go after you, they have to go after the state," Criter said. "The more rules they put in place, the more protection that gives us."


User avatar
bigbadberry3
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 6:19 pm
Location: USA

Post

So... can I have your car then? :naughty:

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71102
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

Image

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

AZhitman wrote:Image
i loved the lion king.

User avatar
stebo0728
Posts: 2810
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:43 pm
Car: 1993 300ZX, White, T-Top
Contact:

Post

I still catch myself singing "Hakuna matata" on occasion.

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71102
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

Rafiki is my hero.

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

AZhitman wrote:Rafiki is my hero.
this is where id make a president joke, but i will take the high road. mainly cause i just ate chinese food and thus have a high.

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71102
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

...and I'd remind you that Rafiki was old and wise. No similarities.

;)

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

AZhitman wrote:...and I'd remind you that Rafiki was old and wise. No similarities.

;)
much like yourself.

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71102
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

True - But our physical similarities are striking.

User avatar
IBCoupe
Posts: 7534
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Car: '08 Nissan Altima Coupe 3.5SE
'19 Infiniti QX50 FWD
'17 BMW 330e iPerformance
Location: Orange County, CA

Post

It's interesting how it works. A state decriminalizes marijuana possession? Even non-medical stuff? Feds can't go after the State, because the State's not taking any action to violate Federal Law. If the feds want to enforce federal law, they're welcome to. State seeks to regulate how medical-marijuana is sold, then the State's actually getting involved in the transaction, and that's where it begins to violate federal law.

So: if a State really cares about marijuana and cracks down? We're good. If a State makes marijuana legal, but doesn't care enough to deal with regulation? We're good. If a State makes marijuana legal, but cares about whether it's being grown/sold safely? Danger, Will Robinson!

User avatar
stebo0728
Posts: 2810
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:43 pm
Car: 1993 300ZX, White, T-Top
Contact:

Post

IBCoupe wrote:It's interesting how it works. A state decriminalizes marijuana possession? Even non-medical stuff? Feds can't go after the State, because the State's not taking any action to violate Federal Law. If the feds want to enforce federal law, they're welcome to. State seeks to regulate how medical-marijuana is sold, then the State's actually getting involved in the transaction, and that's where it begins to violate federal law.

So: if a State really cares about marijuana and cracks down? We're good. If a State makes marijuana legal, but doesn't care enough to deal with regulation? We're good. If a State makes marijuana legal, but cares about whether it's being grown/sold safely? Danger, Will Robinson!
Word! Now thats bass-ackwards

Image

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

stebo0728 wrote:
IBCoupe wrote:It's interesting how it works. A state decriminalizes marijuana possession? Even non-medical stuff? Feds can't go after the State, because the State's not taking any action to violate Federal Law. If the feds want to enforce federal law, they're welcome to. State seeks to regulate how medical-marijuana is sold, then the State's actually getting involved in the transaction, and that's where it begins to violate federal law.

So: if a State really cares about marijuana and cracks down? We're good. If a State makes marijuana legal, but doesn't care enough to deal with regulation? We're good. If a State makes marijuana legal, but cares about whether it's being grown/sold safely? Danger, Will Robinson!
Word! Now thats bass-ackwards

Image

youve got ladies hands. or that of a big child. i find this to be very revealing :D

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71102
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

See what I'm working with?

...and you guys wonder why I get cranky on occasion.

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

AZhitman wrote:See what I'm working with?

...and you guys wonder why I get cranky on occasion.
you're hormonal. thats why you bought a vette.

User avatar
stebo0728
Posts: 2810
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:43 pm
Car: 1993 300ZX, White, T-Top
Contact:

Post

heliochrome85 wrote: youve got ladies hands. or that of a big child. i find this to be very revealing :D
It skips generations, my chirrens are fine

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71102
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

IBCoupe wrote: If a State makes marijuana legal, but cares about whether it's being grown/sold safely? Danger, Will Robinson!
Keep in mind, this wasn't by choice. It's not like AZ came up with this convoluted turd of legislation on its own. It was flawed from the get-go (BADLY).

As an example, I'm violating state law just by working on it (the law was written very poorly).

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

AZhitman wrote:
IBCoupe wrote: It's not like AZ came up with this convoluted turd of legislation on its own.
yeah but AZ is getting really good at laying them.

User avatar
IBCoupe
Posts: 7534
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Car: '08 Nissan Altima Coupe 3.5SE
'19 Infiniti QX50 FWD
'17 BMW 330e iPerformance
Location: Orange County, CA

Post

I have to say that the way it works makes perfect sense, legally speaking. It may be a**-backwards in its results, but that's the kind of wrong answer that still gets you an A-.

User avatar
telcoman
Posts: 5763
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:30 am
Car: Tesla 2022 Model Y, 2016 Q70 Bye 2012 G37S 6 MT w Nav 94444 mi bye 2006 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6 MT @171796 mi.
Location: Central NJ

Post

bigbadberry3 wrote:So... can I have your car then? :naughty:
Can I have the 401k?

Telcoman

User avatar
IBCoupe
Posts: 7534
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Car: '08 Nissan Altima Coupe 3.5SE
'19 Infiniti QX50 FWD
'17 BMW 330e iPerformance
Location: Orange County, CA

Post

Come the rapture, can I have the rat Bex found in the pool skimmer?

User avatar
Cold_Zero
Posts: 7913
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:15 pm
Car: 2003 (3.5) Altima SE & 2005 Pathfinder

Post

heliochrome85 wrote:
stebo0728 wrote:
Word! Now thats bass-ackwards

Image

youve got ladies hands. or that of a big child. i find this to be very revealing :D
It is not hairy enough.
I kid I kid.

Though, if AZ comes up missing I am blaming the Turks and invading their country.

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

Cold_Zero wrote:
It is not hairy enough.
I kid I kid.

Though, if AZ comes up missing I am blaming the Turks and invading their country.
as if you arent sitting at home in full military gear waiting for an excuse.

User avatar
Cold_Zero
Posts: 7913
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:15 pm
Car: 2003 (3.5) Altima SE & 2005 Pathfinder

Post

Are you the one sneaking around in the bushes with your camera, watching everything that I do?

User avatar
AZhitman
Administrator
Posts: 71102
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 S13, 92 SE-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14.
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Contact:

Post

heliochrome85 wrote:as if you arent sitting at home in full military gear waiting for an excuse.
What makes you think I'm not? :naughty:


Return to “Politics Etc.”