CA18DET FWD Swap Build Thread

[cbh148]

Clean CA man, hope you have better luck than I do.

And if that white plug near the big blue ECU plug is the same as on all my s13's, then it plugs into the body harness under the dash, which runs to your gauge cluster for tachometer/speedometer/watertemp/fuel/etc signal and ac/heat controls.

[boost_boy]

No need for an oil cooler unless you absolutely must have one. If it makes you feel better, I have the same set-up as you and I run 18psi of boost minimum with as much as 32psi when I feel like acting a fool

[livelyjay]

I take pride in my wiring. If it isn't clean, I won't know where anything is later on. That's why I re-loomed my entire OEM wiring harness and I'll be replacing any plugs that are chipped.

Thank you for the pointer about the oil cooler after the turbo, I figured it was worth asking. I'll be installing an oil filter relocation kit, so I could put a fitting on one line for the oil cooler, and another fitting on the other line for oil pressure and temp sending units. How the hell do you rig a thermostat system to open the oil cooler line when the temperature raises? That sounds overly complicated in my opinion. Maybe I'll skip the oil cooler.

Back to the weird extra plug at the ECU. My first guess is this ECU is from an automatic CA18DET, but I have no idea. It's connected to the following pins:
113 - ??
32 - Check Connector
33 - Check Connector
43 - Ignition Switch
46 - Thermo Switch Control (F.I.C.D.)
47 - Check Connector
53 - Vehicle Speed Sensor

Any guesses?

[cbh148]

And if that white plug near the big blue ECU plug is the same as on all my s13's, then it plugs into the body harness under the dash, which runs to your gauge cluster for tachometer/speedometer/watertemp/fuel/etc signal and ac/heat controls.

[mdb4879]

http://www.batinc.net/mocal.htm

Take a look at Oil Coolers, Oil Thermostats, Oil Cooler Take-Off & Sandwich Plates, and Remote Oil Filter Equipment. You should probably be able to get all the info you need from that.

[livelyjay]

cbh148, thanks for the post. I'll just remove that piece of the harness then and begin work on labeling everything and chopping the plug off of my CA16DE harness one wire at a time.

mdb4879, thanks for the link. After boost_boy's reply though, I think I'll skip the oil cooler for now. Maybe I'll use it for my wife's automatic transmission.

[boost_boy]

Seriously, I wouldn't overly complicate that swap with the fancy add-ons. If you're worried about insurance, you've already paid that in full for a well-built engine and turbo designed to do without all the extra bells and whistles associated needs of the factory units. Focus on your wiring and getting it to run, don't sweat the oil cooler as you are space-limited anyways. My sentra's CA has the factory oil cooler, but my S13s CAs both have no oil ccoler with one having a very expensive GT35R attached to it and the car makes 536whp and I drive it hard (when i drive it). As long as your engine stays cool, you'll be just fine. Or you can go out of your way to strap on an oil cooler and a remote oil filter relocation kit (I wouldn't), but it is your engine.

[livelyjay]

Engine is in the car, not fully installed but getting there. Tried to put the clutch and transmission on today, but my alignment tool wasn't fitting right. Take a look at the picture of the flywheel. Is the pilot bearing missing?

[Liquid_Neon]

tell me jay, why did u not drop in the whole eng/trans as an assembley? I've done it that way three times and i find it easier when doing a job such as this

weird to see those valve covers and manifold... im so used to seeing my setup.
good to see another det in a mythical creature car like our N bodies

[livelyjay]

1. Obviously it wouldn't be in the car yet if I did it that way because the pilot bearing is missing from the crank. On order, should be here just in time for me to leave on vacation. Hopefully it's the same as every other USDM Nissan because the cross reference stated it's in what looks like every Nissan from 1967 to 2009.
2. I have no one to help me. I can life and maneuver the engine by myself without much difficulty, just have to be careful. If it was all one piece, there's no way I could move it myself. I really didn't have any problems doing it this way either.

[Liquid_Neon]

Oh... i own a engine crane so i could do it myself, but i never turned down help.

Come vacation out on the east coast bud, I'll take you for a loud whip along the shore

[livelyjay]

Yeah I could have borrowed an engine crane, but to be honest jacking up the car and using a jack to roll the engine underneath is a snap. Vacation this time is with my friend out on Nantucket for almost a week. Sitting on the beach, going to a brewery, and cooking up fresh seafood every day is just what the doctor ordered.

As for the engine, the pilot bearing is on its way. I did some wiring today. Extended the temperature sender plug (mine was cracked any way), got the oil pressure, knock sensor, alternator, TPS part 1, and coil packs all hooked up. I also extended the wires for the other idle valve that's hooked up to the intake pipe under the manifold. Kind of sucks having to run that wire all the way across the injectors, but oh well. Tomorrow I might work on getting the injector plugs hooked up but I might not have the time.

Questions
1. What is the purpose of the plug that's dangling off of the throttle body and how does it get hooked up?
2. Where can i get the little lock down U shaped wires for the harness plugs?
3. Since I have a WBO2 that has a narrowband output, can I just hook that up to the ECU and skip the engine harness side for the O2 sensor?

[Liquid_Neon]

DUDE! nantucket!? I work in the town that the boat leaves from to go to nantucket island! You will have to hit me up if you actually come all the way out to cape cod to boat over to nantucket. This is all assuming nantucket isn't the name of some random town in jersey or something...?

The onyl plug that comes off the throttle body that i know of is part of the tps or tvs system for telling how much the plate is turned. cause the black sensor piece jsut tests for idle and full throttle (in auto cars).

[livelyjay]

We'll be getting to the Hy-Line ferry (or Steamboat Ferry depending on our actual time of arrival) for the last ferry out on Thursday. This is my first time out there and I'm really looking forward to sitting on my butt for a few days.

If you look down this page, you'll see a picture of the CA18DET RWD throttle body. It has a plug dangling off of the TPS. I remember the EXA guys saying to use wires from un-used sensors/solenoids to hook it up correctly. Since the EGR and AC throttle solenoids won't be used I'll probably just use those wires. Got a new question to add to the list:

Questions
1. What is the purpose of the plug that's dangling off of the throttle body and how does it get hooked up?
2. Where can i get the little lock down U shaped wires for the harness plugs?
3. Since I have a WBO2 that has a narrowband output, can I just hook that up to the ECU and skip the engine harness side for the O2 sensor?
4. The CA16DE has four solenoids (AIV, Power Valve, EGR, and FPR). In a pin out conversion diagram it showed the CA18DET having the Power Valve and FPR solenoids hooked up. Whereas on a CA18DET vacuum diagram, it only shows the Power Valve being hooked up. Which one is true?

[float_6969]

The plug dangling of the TB is part of the TPS. Actually, the the actual TPS plug. The plug on the TPS itself is a throttle closed switch, and if it was an automatic TPS, it also has a full throttle switch. The dangling plug is the one that needs plugged into the engine harness.

Junkyard? I've made some from little paperclips before, but it's a pain in the azz.

Yes

You don't need the FPR solenoid hooked up. All it does is refrence the FPR to atmosphere during a hot start to purge the fuel rail of any boiled gas. I've NEVER had it hooked up in any configuration of my CA, and never had hot start issues.

[livelyjay]

Back from vacation. It wasn't as relaxing as I had hoped because my friend invited a lot of family and friends because he's getting married this in August, so it was like a pre-celebration vacation. Any ways, I'm back and the pilot bearing arrived. Depending on the heat today I'm going to clean up the garage and try to install the transmission and remaining motor mounts. I removed all of the plugs from the CA18DET harness so I can slice them into the CA16DE harness where necessary.

Float, thanks for the tips. I'll just leave the FPR solenoid off of the car as it's less hassle that way. I'll try to use some paperclips on the plugs where they are missing and hopefully I will have better luck. My goal is by the end of this weekend to have the engine fully installed with all the wiring and vacuum hoses hooked up.

Can I use the CA16DE ECU to try and start the car up? I'd just like to see if it will fire up before I cut off the OEM ECU connector.

[boost_boy]

You can ,but it will run rich immediately and you really don't need that seeing that you have freshly built engine. Your call on that one, but it's just a tease

[float_6969]

IDK how I missed the post, but that extra plug for the S13 harness connects to the dash harness.

The "check connector" wires are basically communication wires for the old OBDI port, so they're not needed.

You probably need to hook up the ignition switch wire. It connects to the "start" position on the ignition switch. It tells the ECU that you're trying to start the motor so it adds extra fuel, adjusts timing, etc. The car may be hard to start without it connected.

Thermoswitch control is the input from the A/C circuit. It tells the ECU that you turned the A/C on, and to provide a ground path for the FICD circut so the idle increases.

Vechicle speed sensor is the INPUT from the gauge cluster for the speed signal. The stock speed sensor doesn't generate a clean, square wave. That signal is inputted into the gauge cluster. The cluster "cleans up" the signal, uses it to display the speed, and then outputs it to the ECU. You probably don't want it hooked up, as it will impose a speed cut around 110-115mph. This won't throw a code if you don't hook it up, so don't worry about that either.

[livelyjay]

Cleaned up the garage last night. It's going to be balls hot today, so no dice since I'm a pansy. Tomorrow it will cool off a bit so I'll get some work done then.

Dee, thanks for the tip. I'll wait and start it when everything is wired up. I will try to start it up before the IC pipes and exhaust are done, just because I know I won't be patient enough to wait till I'm done. Plus I'm positive there will be some troubleshooting involved, which I can work on while taking breaks from welding.

Float, someone covered the dash harness connector before, it might have even been you. Since I'm splicing the ecu plug into my wiring harness, I won't have to worry about it. I will skip the speed sensor though at your suggestion, even though I'll never go that fast unless I take this car to The Glen.

[float_6969]

I thought I'd never hit it either, till I did, and then I wished I hadn't hooked it up. It's pretty harsh. Full on hard cut till you slow down to 105. It's like someone put on the brakes. Sucks.

[mdb4879]

After I first started driving mine for a while I thought I'd try to hit it. I got to where my speedo hit 115 and it didn't hit so I backed off and figured maybe I just didn't have one. One night after work a buddy of mine in his G35 coupe auto went and raced for fun. I stayed even with him until a little over 100, but I was mostly paying attention to him and just stayed in it. Then at 120 I hit the speed limiter and I must say I almost dropped a deuce. I thought my motor just blew up big time. It's not like you let off the gas and still have your idle mixture, al gas is completely gone. If you're not ready for it it'll freak you out, lol. Needless to say I haven't bothered taking it off. I never have a need to go that fast anyways so I haven't bothered to disconnect it. Idk what the RS5F50C gearing is like in 5th (I think the final drives are the same, but 5th is a bit more economical in the 1988 transmission), but with the RS5F31C 120 is pretty much balls to the wall anyways as far as revs go on the stock T25.

[Liquid_Neon]

WEEEELL actually... there is no speed sensor on an N13. no speed cut on the factory ECU, hence how i have been able to hit my top speed when i was just a lowly ca18de.
The fwd ca18de trans has a speed cable that goes right into the back of the cluster.

[livelyjay]

Yeah, that's what was confusing me a bit was that we had a speedo cable and they are talking about sensors and such.

Ok, I destroyed my pilot bearing trying to install it. I had no idea that metal was so soft. Local auto parts store ordered one and it will be in tomorrow. Any tips on installing that sucker without damaging it?

[livelyjay]

In addition to my question about the pilot bearing, and this is a shot in the dark, is there a chance I could just use the harness plug and wiring for the O2 sensor, plug it into the TPS, and just switch up the wiring at the ECU? I'm going to use my WBO2 narrowband output for the ECU, so I don't need that plug and it's a 3 wire and plugs into the TPS just fine.

[mdb4879]

The cable drives the cluster and there are two switches, I guess is the best way to say it, that turn on as the cable turns. For every time the drive in the cluster turns there will be continuity two times and that signal goes to the ECU and is interpreted into vehicle speed.

[Liquid_Neon]

That very well may be the case mdb, but i can attest to there being no cut off speed in the N13 that it is capable of reaching in stock trim. In my younger days i had that speedo buried past 125mph more then once, buried it a couple times after the old det swap. never once was there a cutoff into the 130mph area.
This was a reason I kept my factory ecu and just piggybacked it with an SAFC.
the only wireing i did was install resistors for the 2-3ohm injectors that the DET uses. (since the DE has 12-13ohms)

[mdb4879]

That's probably the difference right there. Your stock ecu doesn't have a speed limiter, as you said. My car had the plugs cut off and replaced by the S13 DET plug to run the stock DET ecu which does have a limiter.

[float_6969]

Ahh, yea, the S13 does have a speed limiter. So if you're using that ECU it'll be there. Regardless, if you don't hook it up, you'll be fine for most racing situation.

No tricks with the pilot bearing. It is bronze, so it's pretty soft. I just lightly tap them in with a regular hammer and a socket extension and they go in fine. If you have to beat on it, something is wrong.

As for the O2 plug, that's fine.

[livelyjay]

Pilot bearing is installed, but it wasn't easy. Not sure what the problem us, but I did have to beat on it to get it to go in. The pressure has made the bronze material collapse ever so slightly, so the alignment tool it tough to get in and some material from the alignment tool was shaved off. I'm not talking much, but some did. I don't think this is going to be a big deal overall but it's strange that it happened to begin with.

I'll refrain from connecting the speed limiter wire on the DET ECU, pin number 53.

I can't use the O2 sensor plug for the TPS, because there is only one wire that makes it to the ECU, another goes to engine ground, and another appears to go to a check connector of some sort labeled (36F) in the diagram. The FICD solenoid valve, as you all know, is only used when a vehicle has AC. Mine doesn't so I can chop that plug off and use the wires. I can also use harness wires from the AIV and FPR solenoids since I'm not using those either, but the solenoids appear to all connect to one another further down the harness so I'm not sure I want to mess with them. Another option is to just run my own lines into the engine compartment, which would leave other plugs untouched if I ever pull the engine out of the car.

Does anyone have EF-EC page 98 from the CA18DET manual? That will help me understand the wiring of the TPS a little better.

[livelyjay]

I got the CA18DET manual from this site, and it didn't help much. I'm making good progress. The engine/trans are installed 100% and I can shift the transmission except not into reverse. Hopefully when I can spin up the transmission it will shift, otherwise it'll come out again and I'll try to fix it. Vacuum lines are hooked up, see below and let me know if I hooked it up correctly.

I.M. - Check Valve - Vacuum Can
CV Flow Direction: (->) Free flowing (<-) Vacuum delay
Power Valve Solenoid - Check Valve - Power Valve
CV Flow Direction: (->) Vacuum delay (<-) Free flowing

Now onto the idle and throttle switch
IDLE SWITCH - CA18DET
Pin1 - Yellow and white stripe
Pin2 - Yellow
Pin3 - Empty

THROTTLE SWITCH - CA18DET
Pin1 - Light Green with red stripe (swap wire from CA16DE TPS)
Pin2 - Light Green with black stripe (needs source wire)
Pin3 - Black (needs source wire)

TPS - CA16DE
Pin1 - Blue with red stripe
Pin2 - Gray with blue stripe
Pin3 - Black

A spreadsheet with this conversion pinned out on the EXA forum explains that the "Gray with blue stripe" wire from the TPS gets moved to the "Light Green with red stripe" on the throttle switch. That would leave Pin2 open on the IDLE switch and Pin3 connected to nothing. That doesn't make any sense to me. According to the DET FSM the idle switch uses Pin1 and Pin2 for idle and doesn't use Pin3. So removing Pin2 wouldn't be a very good idea, but the EX guys have luck doing it that way.