krash wrote:Honda and Toyota are some of the few companies that still give a rats a** about performance cars.
I don't know that that's remotely true. Toyota has the FRS, which they codeveloped with Subaru. And Honda's got jack. No better off than Nissan aside from a lack of obsession with CVT.
And Honda's obsessed with FWD. Rather than building real cars, they glue toothpick-thin axles under the rear end of overweight front-drivers, slap on rear-wheel steering, and call it "super handling". And the Ethereal NSX is just as bad. Instead of making a supercar, they're making an overteched hybrid.
Meanwhile, Toyota's cars are so contented that they couldn't be further behind the curve. If Toyota had developed the FRS on their own, it'd be a front-drive four seat convertible with stick-on aero for the "S" model (gee, that sounds awfully familiar...). As for the supposed Supra resurrection...we've been hearing about it for over a decade. So I will believe it when it happens. And I'll be excited if it's anything APPROACHING a real sports car. I'm sure as Hell not excited about some executive talking about things that they want to maybe see happen. Talk is cheap. I've haven't seen any "do" out of Toyota in decades. Not only are modern Toyotas bland and uninspiring, they also feel tremendously cheap. Every Camry I've been in since the fourth gen has genuinely SHOCKED me with its feeling of overwhelming cheapassedness.
Even in terms of motorsports presence, these two have nothing over Nissan.
Nissan: F1 (via Infiniti/Renault), Formula Renault (which began as World Series by Nissan and continues to be VQ-powered), and V8 Supercars.
Honda: Indycar
Toyota: Nascar
Nissan wins.
I'd say if I were to pick a list of manufacturers who care about performance cars, Honda and Toyota would be EVEN LOWER than Nissan.
EDIT:
Since I'm throwing in Infiniti, I'd better include Lexus. When was the last time anyone lusted after an IS-F over an M3 or a CTS-V?
Acura can jump off a cliff.