I posted this to NICO General > General Chat but actually meant to post is here instead, so I hope you guys don't mind my reposting:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi. I've spent the past week browsing and reading through the forum and have become more and more convinced to get a 240sx. Been looking for a car since my old 90 Mazda MX-6 got hit and totaled while I was PARKED on the street...
Anyway, to the point: I found this 98 S14 for sale, SE, ~40k miles, mostly stock I think, for $8000. Seemed like a VERY good deal to me so I went to take a look, test drive, etc. Well, I was falling more and in love with the car when I found out the catch: it's a rebuilt vehicle, has had salvage title. The seller assures me that it was minor damage to the left rear of the car and it had no structural damage. I don't know much more detail than that, unfortunately. Well, it looked REAL GOOD to me, the test drive felt good too, but I very much a newbie and wouldn't be able to tell if anything was wrong, so I pretty much feel resigned to not buying the car because of the salvage.
So anyway, I came back here to the forums, and looked through the old posts -- one in particular made me feel even less interested in the car, Daunttless (the "King" I've learnt to "hail to") says the 240sx doesn't take too well to minor damage (threadid=3731). Still, there seem to be quite a few of you who buy wrecked cars and fix them up, but less has been said about buying rebuilt cars from dealers.
So I just wanted to see what people thought about salvage cars in general, and whether the price $8000 is reasonable... Sorry for the long post.
I wanted this 98 S14, but it had a salvage title
hi, if i were you i would take the car to somebody who knows their stuff when it comes to bodywork and frame structure. or just goto any shop that has more than one frame machine and slip them a few jeffersons. Also, take it to somebody who does alignment and ask them if they could tell you what type of adjustments (if any) had to be made in order to compensate for error... Anyway, it all comes down to who restored the car and how much effort as put into it...
I drive this (http://www.noand.net/post/fr01.jpg) and it feels/handles like new, because I know what came in and came out of that car. Actually, afer rebuild i didn't even have to go in for alignment..
I drive this (http://www.noand.net/post/fr01.jpg) and it feels/handles like new, because I know what came in and came out of that car. Actually, afer rebuild i didn't even have to go in for alignment..
-
Daunttless
- Posts: 3890
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 7:20 am
What he said. : ) Truly, every wreck is an individual with 240s, its kind of odd and the only wya to tell would be to have a professional take a look at it. The problem is the way the unibody frame and crumple zones are constructed, literally low speed crashes, bumps, nudges, minor rear endings always seem to end up WAY worse than they look/feel. The car looks like the bumper is smashed and thats it, then you look inside and the frame is twisted. : ( A salvage title doesn't necessarily mean its not worth buying, but it most definitely should be checked out. As Max said, take it to a reputable shop, call around beforehand and see if they'll look at it for free, blah blah blah, then take the car out for a test spin over to their place. : ) Good Luck!!!!
-
InitialDGuy
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:37 pm
Nissan/Infinity products are especially susceptible to getting totalled out. Particularily S14 240SXs. When the bags go off, 90% of the time the passeneger airbag will rip the dash (Not the airbag cover portion, but the actual dash), thus requiring a whole new replacement. Last I checked, a new S14 dash from Nissan retails for a little over $1000USD and change. The airbag modules also need to be replaced, which is costly, not to mention finding airbags. I bought a 98 Maxima SE earlier this year as a builder that had very little damage (No frame compression or buckling) but it did have blown airbags. I spent more on the airbags/modules then I did on replacing all of the sheetmetal AND painting the front clip. Keep in mind that many insurance companies require new or factory made used parts to be used in repairing their respective customer's vehicles. Salvage yards know this and try to charge insane prices for parts, particularily anything Japanese, German, or Sweedish. The high cost of parts coupled with the age of the vehicle in question leads to thousands of perfectly good cars getting totalled out by insurance companies that really have hardly any damage. Remember the costs incurred in the labor for rebuilding a 1 year old car are the same as those involving a 10 year old one. All vehicles once they are totalled go to a collection center where they are auctioned off to the highest bidder.
Take the 98 240SX in question; It was for sale at $8,000. If it had average miles (50-60K) and was hit in the front, it probably sold as auction for around 2 grand (If it was just hit in the front). Assuming that the person who bought it did the work themselves, they would have most likely purchased a front cut that had all of the sheet metal intact as well as the airbags present. This would cost around $2500. Assuming average frame repair time and cost at $250-$350.
Since we are assuming that this person is doing everything him/herself, there won't be any monetary cost for hanging the sheetmetal and installing the bags. This sounds good on paper, but in practice all of your time is worth money somehow. It's time that you could be using to earn money working on someone else's car, time spent with the family, or even time spent doing nothing, it's all worth something.
Anyway,
Now the front of the car will need to be painted, so again with the assumptions I shall go and assume that this person works at, or has acess to, a bodyshop with a paintbooth. Figure a few hundred dollars in materials (Tape, sandpaper, primer, more sandpaper, tape, masking paper, basecoat, clear coat, even more sandpaper, ect) plus MORE TIME spent working on the car that you could be using doing something else (Like posting a long winded response on an internet message board).
Ad a few bucks for detailing the car afterwards, plus re-titling the car (You can't re-sell a vehicle with a salvage title for road use until you take it down to the DMV so the sheriff's office can inspect the car and make sure you didn't glue the whole mess together with JB-Weld and bailing wire, and then get the title changed over to reflect that it is "Previously Salvaged" or "Rebuilt", at least that is how it works in Nebraska)
Quick Cost Review:98 240SX(Wrecked) - $2000Front clip w/ bags - $2500Frame time (Est.) - $350Materials - $250Detailing (Est) - $60Bottle of whatever the manager at the body shop that you work at favours (For letting you utalize the paintbooth) - $15
Plus all the time you devoted into putting the car back together.
Grand Total: $5175
This is a very abstract and loose estimate. It never works out the way you think it will. There are always the variables to contend with like broken windsheilds, extra dents, bent rims, flat tires, missing radios, and all sorts of little things that always get forgotten in the overall grand scheme of things.
I agree with what has already been said in previous posts. Have it checked out by a body shop or frame technician. I would also question the seller with such things as who rebuilt the car, where was it hit, is there any pictures of the damage, how long have they owned it, ect. Ask for receipts.
The bottom line is that not all salvage title cars are junk, many should not have been totalled in the first place. But you can never be to cautious when buying a vehicle that has already been rebuilt. When people are rebuilding a car for themselves, they will obviously try and make it as safe as possible, and will spend accordingly. The opposite also holds equally true that many unscrupulous people who are out to make a quick buck will buy a wrecked car and try and slap it back together as cheaply as possible. They aren't looking out for anyone's safety, only the bottom line. Just as long as the car looks good and kinda drives straight, they know they can sell it to some unsuspecting person.
caveat emptor
Take the 98 240SX in question; It was for sale at $8,000. If it had average miles (50-60K) and was hit in the front, it probably sold as auction for around 2 grand (If it was just hit in the front). Assuming that the person who bought it did the work themselves, they would have most likely purchased a front cut that had all of the sheet metal intact as well as the airbags present. This would cost around $2500. Assuming average frame repair time and cost at $250-$350.
Since we are assuming that this person is doing everything him/herself, there won't be any monetary cost for hanging the sheetmetal and installing the bags. This sounds good on paper, but in practice all of your time is worth money somehow. It's time that you could be using to earn money working on someone else's car, time spent with the family, or even time spent doing nothing, it's all worth something.
Anyway,
Now the front of the car will need to be painted, so again with the assumptions I shall go and assume that this person works at, or has acess to, a bodyshop with a paintbooth. Figure a few hundred dollars in materials (Tape, sandpaper, primer, more sandpaper, tape, masking paper, basecoat, clear coat, even more sandpaper, ect) plus MORE TIME spent working on the car that you could be using doing something else (Like posting a long winded response on an internet message board).
Ad a few bucks for detailing the car afterwards, plus re-titling the car (You can't re-sell a vehicle with a salvage title for road use until you take it down to the DMV so the sheriff's office can inspect the car and make sure you didn't glue the whole mess together with JB-Weld and bailing wire, and then get the title changed over to reflect that it is "Previously Salvaged" or "Rebuilt", at least that is how it works in Nebraska)
Quick Cost Review:98 240SX(Wrecked) - $2000Front clip w/ bags - $2500Frame time (Est.) - $350Materials - $250Detailing (Est) - $60Bottle of whatever the manager at the body shop that you work at favours (For letting you utalize the paintbooth) - $15
Plus all the time you devoted into putting the car back together.
Grand Total: $5175
This is a very abstract and loose estimate. It never works out the way you think it will. There are always the variables to contend with like broken windsheilds, extra dents, bent rims, flat tires, missing radios, and all sorts of little things that always get forgotten in the overall grand scheme of things.
I agree with what has already been said in previous posts. Have it checked out by a body shop or frame technician. I would also question the seller with such things as who rebuilt the car, where was it hit, is there any pictures of the damage, how long have they owned it, ect. Ask for receipts.
The bottom line is that not all salvage title cars are junk, many should not have been totalled in the first place. But you can never be to cautious when buying a vehicle that has already been rebuilt. When people are rebuilding a car for themselves, they will obviously try and make it as safe as possible, and will spend accordingly. The opposite also holds equally true that many unscrupulous people who are out to make a quick buck will buy a wrecked car and try and slap it back together as cheaply as possible. They aren't looking out for anyone's safety, only the bottom line. Just as long as the car looks good and kinda drives straight, they know they can sell it to some unsuspecting person.
caveat emptor
Hi and thanks for the responses!
Just some clarification, the car was hit in the rear left corner, not front. And I was told that the airbags did not deploy -- they are still intact. Also I checked Kelley Blue Book and NADA and it states the car's value is ~12k to 13k. I heard that a salvage title should bring it down to about 50% of value, so I might try to get a better deal than the $8000, though he said it was pretty firm.
Anyway, I'll think more about it but certainly will take it to a mechanic/body shop for inspection if I do decide to buy it.
Thanks.
Just some clarification, the car was hit in the rear left corner, not front. And I was told that the airbags did not deploy -- they are still intact. Also I checked Kelley Blue Book and NADA and it states the car's value is ~12k to 13k. I heard that a salvage title should bring it down to about 50% of value, so I might try to get a better deal than the $8000, though he said it was pretty firm.
Anyway, I'll think more about it but certainly will take it to a mechanic/body shop for inspection if I do decide to buy it.
Thanks.