i wanna upgrade to solid lifters!!! TOMEI!!!!

[blackieblack]

i would like to know what i need to upgrade to solid lifters. was looking into tomei's kit. also what r pros and cons and can someone give me a ball park range on how much this will break me. please help sr gods!!!!!!

[SpeedRacer1]

Cheaper way is to use the head componants off of an RNN14 SR20DET.

[S13FASTBACKSR]

pros of solid lifters is that you can rev higher and it will be safe. you will need to buy a set of cams that are compatible with solid lifters, they cannot be lash type. will be pretty expensive..the lifters and a set of cams are a good 700. plus you will probably need to upgrade your valve springs because the lift of the cam will be too aggressive for your stock springs causing valve float..that will probably all in all run you a grand if you install the stuff yourself. as far as cons...$$$

[Blown240sx]

Dont the solid lifters require head work just to make them fit?

[sr20-thoj]

nope.. should be a direct drop in.. but just need to upgrade your whole head.. haha..

[S13FASTBACKSR]

sr20-thoj are you running solid lifters? if so what cams? how do you like the setup..if you aren't running them then sorry lol

[DrifterProdigy85]

You can run normal cams on the solid lifters. MATT BACK VASS does with his custom solid lifters. Solid cams will have an advantage though because of a more aggressive ramp up with the lobes i think. Ive heard Tomei lifters to not be good to use. Something about the Shimming required. Mazworks runs HKS Solid Lash in there engines. Id send them an email for good feedback on whats needed.

[Sabot]

I think shimming is required nomatter what company you get the solids from. Shimming is one of the most overlooked procedure on a SR.

[S13FASTBACKSR]

right now i am in the process of building a head and i have been looking into solid lifters...i was under the impression that you must only remeausre and order the correct size shims if you have a valve job done which calls for cutting the valve seat..but after reading option imports and enjukus site under tomei solid lifters they say you must resize the shims when upgrading to solid lifters..i emailed them and asked why..option imports wrote back but they were not too clear..the guy told me they are more concerned with selling parts and what they know is limited..the reason i was under the impression that reshiming was only needed for a valve job is because a guy i know who had a 500+hp sr was running solid lifters and told me you do not need to reshim unless you cut your valve seats. so now im confused. when enjuku replys i'll have a better response...also yes some solid lifters may not require solid type cams but i know tomei does..maybe part of the custom lifter was to be able to run lash type cams

[blackieblack]

what about ecu retuning? is that involved? i mean do i need a stand alone? and wich of you guys does have solid lifters installed? i can do the work myself right? i was planning on upgrading shims though cause it said it was recommended. i think it was heavy throttle.

[S13FASTBACKSR]

i do not have solid lifters installed right now but they will be in about a month. ecu tuning depends. it depends on the lift and duration of the cam. if the lift is to aggressive as well as the duration then your current tune will not compensate for it i would say anything over a 256duration with a 10mm lift requires retuning. and yes all of the websites say you must remeasure and reorder new size shims..i just got the reply back from enjuku but their answer on why was a little unclear to me too so i asked him if he could explain it just a little more..installing solid lifters is very easy but remeasuring the correct size shims is tricky..it is probably best if you have a machine shop do it. hey blackie black i just emailed you...and do you have AIM?
Modified by S13FASTBACKSR at 3:04 PM 1/16/2007

[blackieblack]

i see. well the thing is i was planning on a retune anyway. but i was going to go through rs enthalpy. so what your saying is that upgradeing to lifters really deosnt require the ecu to be tuned to anything drastic. it can support the lifter upgrade.

[S13FASTBACKSR]

yes. the solid lifter conversion has nothing to do with tuning. its the camshafts that do because the camshafts are allowing more air into the engine than the tune compensates for. did you get my email?

[blackieblack]

im just wondering y more people havent upgraded to solid lifters. its a worthy upgrade just not very neccesary. i wonder of there is something quirky about it that ive missed. youve probably done more research fastbacker. how much higher would it rev to? and it allows for a quieter engine i was told. what other benis are there. its just a beter overall head right?

[S13FASTBACKSR]

the general reason to convert to solid lifters is for higher reving purposes. solid lifters are for people with high hp engines, maybe by some means drag cars. i read a few days ago that you are capable of reving to 10,500rpms with them, probably a little more. i think the reason why most people havent switched over to solid lifters is because of the fact that it requires reshimming. people probably then say..well why do i want to spend $250 on these lifters, then pay to have my shims remeasured and pay for upgraded springs and retainers (because solid type cams are probably gonna require this too) when i can just get a set of step 1 lash type cams that dont require any of that, just pop em in and go with another 20-30 horse right out of the gate. or some people may want a step 2 cam which requires springs and retainers but they dont care about reving any higher than that so they say screw spending the extra money on solid lifters. get what im sayin?

[ILikeMy240sx]

Im currently building a head with the things listed in my sig. Im still waiting on my solid lifters tho... farkers are not on back order.

Anyways, when I get everything together I am going to do a nice write up for all of you on how to properly do things like valve seals, valve springs, and most of all reshimming with Tomei solid lifters. Keep in mind that the shimming process for Tomei lifters are not the same as the shimming process for stock HLA units.

I wouldnt recommend reving SRs over 10000 RPM tho.. Yes the valve train can handle it but the stresses on the bottom end reciprocating components rise exponentially as the speed of the motor increases... At that kind of RPM level, unless you have a VERY VERY strong bottom end, things will start to break.

[blackieblack]

i see. cant wait for that write up then!

[blackieblack]

but this whole shimming process is confrusing. im still going through with it though. i love tax season. its better than christmas.

[ILikeMy240sx]

Bascially with stock HLAs, you use a tool that has a plate and a dial indicator to determine the proper shim size. Keep in mind that on a stock valve train the rocker arm guide (shim with the slot in the middle) is all the same size and you determind the required shim size that is the height between the rocker guide and the valve stem of the valve with the shim on it.

With Tomei solid lifters, you need to measure the clearance between the cam lobe and the rocker pad and set that to be .006" both on the shim side and the rocker guide side. Also you need to take in to 1:1.57 rocker ratio to figure out what shim size you need.

[S13FASTBACKSR]

ILikeMy240sx..I saw a couple of weeks ago on your sig where it says you are moving to solid lifters so i was just waiting for you to chime in. i also had a feeling you would know how to measure the shim sizes b/c from all of your other replys on other topics ive seen, you definately sound like you know what you are talking about. where did you find out about how to measure shim size for the tomei solid lifters? companies that i talk to cant even tell me why solid lifters are needed..a guy told me today that upgrading to solid lifters is a pain b/c every month you have to adjust them..any input on that?

[ILikeMy240sx]

Well, with solid lifters, you do wear out the shims more so it is true that you have to periodically check to make sure that you are still with in tolerance. However, I think "every month" is a gross exaggeration.

I asked a guy in FreshAlloy on how to shim with Tomei solid lifters and he explained to me very clearly on how to do it and things about rocker ratio that I did not know before.

[S13FASTBACKSR]

so this guy who tells me i have to adjust my lifters every month meant i have to reshim every month? every month being a gross exageration to you, what would you say the right about of time would be? thats cool that you know exactly how to measure the shims now..so your saying that the tomei solid lifters takes a different matter of measuring? a local machine shop would not do it right because they have no knowledge of the tomei lifters and what they require? thanks man

[ILikeMy240sx]

Yes, by adjusting he means reshimming. I know different lifters require different methods of shimming and adjusting. For example, HKS kit uses a different method than Tomei kit. Stock HLA is different from solid lifters and so on. But I have no idea exactly at what intervals the shims need to be replaced. I can tell you about 2 months from now :-)

If you give the specs to a machine shop, they could probably do it. Even if they have no experience if you tell them what to do, they can do it.

Just got a word that my lifters will be shipped this Friday... Cant wait!

[S13FASTBACKSR]

cool man glad to hear that..where did you order them from? they were on backorder? so you said with stock HLA's you use a tool with a plate and a dial indicator to determine the proper shim size...well what about the tomei's ..you dont use that tool? what tools do you use? this is the only thing i am worried about is reshimming..everything else i can do/ have done but reshimming sounds very intimidating lol

[ILikeMy240sx]

You use their test shim/rocker guide set which is undersize for you to be able to measure the clearance between the rocker pad and the cam lobe. And to do that you need a feeler gauge to stick between the lobe and the pad.

[S13FASTBACKSR]

and everytime it is time for new shims you cannot re-order the same sizes as the ones you measured last time? because they will always be different due to the slight wear of the cam lobe and rocker arm pad..correct or no? if you have to remeasure everytime, how long do you think it would take once you have done it a few times previously and know how to do it.. and (if you do have to remeausre everytime) do you think its really worth it?

[jubee]

actually i will give you guys a break down real quick.

All the Solid lifter kits will require reshimming HKS, BLE (would not recommend these to anyone), tomi, jun. The only kit that does not require reshimming is the MBV solid lifter kit, everyhting comes with it, shims already made all you have to do is measure and put the right shim in.

Solid lifters are not just for high HP cars, you would be surprised at how big of a diffrence they do to the SR, Matt Back Vass dynoed his on his s14 sr20 motor and on 6 psi he made 250 whp and like 200 ft/tq and that was with cams z32 maf and rom tune. 6 psi that not even stock boost.

Also you wont have to get solid type cams, you can still run lash type cams. I am gonna be running BC stage 3 272's cams on my MBV solid lifters. MBV also runs lash type cams on his car HKS step 2's and has no prob what so ever.

yes you are able to rev the SR to 10k+ look at the mazworks site.

If you really think about it all the ohter kits besided MBV are really not kits casue you still have to spend an extra $200 on shims. to me a kit comes complete.

I hope this helps out a bit just figured i would share my knoledge.

[S13FASTBACKSR]

cool man thanks for the input..so the mbv kit comes with all the shims and rocker guides already pre-measured? and you just have to sort through them and find which shim goes with what rocker arm/ spring by measuring with them? but what about rocker ratio..when you measure a shim you have to measure the rocker ratio..is this already calculated in? the thing that i am wondering is..is it the shims that wear down..or the rocker pad and base circle of the cam? if its the shims then i could see how they could already be measured and it would work accept for the fact that all camshaft (different brands) are probably a tiny bit different in size..as far as the base circle of the cam to the rocker pad..so i guess i actually dont see how they could come pre-measured and work..how much does this kit run and where can i find it? thanks man let me know very interested

[jubee]

well this guy knows alot so he took that all into calculation. its a very simple to do . he has detailed instruction that go with it you need nothing else with the kit.

now the only prob is, i don't think he is gonna be producing them anymore casue he is taking his major cources gor engeenering. but if you go on to fresh alloy and look up his name you will find his email and you can talk to him.

[ILikeMy240sx]

Obviously Maxworks has built bottom end that will allow them to rev over 10K RPM. I wouldnt want to do that on a stock bottom end. Like I said, you need to have a very strong reciprocating components.

MVB kit is sweet. Its a shame that he doesnt make it anymore.. school sucks haha. You do realize that its not a simple bolt-on out of the package right? You still need to measure the clearance between the lobe and the rocker pad to figure out which of the shims he included you need to use.

The best thing about his kit is that he included all the shims you need so you dont have to wait on Tomei's arse to send you their shims... which I am going to have to do.