I require a new sub-compact pistol.

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:14 pm

The cheaper the better

I was looking at a Used walther 380(just looking around) for ~$150. I thought this was ridiculously cheap. Just checked buds, the cheapest is $498!!!

$500 would be the absolute most i'd spend. In that price range I'd be looking at the XD40, Taurus, or Ruger. I think the Taurus can be had in stainless for under $500 new.

I don't mind used with the bigger name brands. Do the warranties transfer? The guy at the store was telling me that Taurus has a unlimited warranty. Buy it used, has a warranty. Find it, has a warranty, etc... Is that true, and if so are other manufacturers like that?

Post by **cmfireman** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:36 am

Are you looking for a sub-compact or a full size?

I would reccomend the Ruger P89 for a full size 9mm. You can shoot +p and reloads all day, 15 rd. cap, it's built like a tank, the parkerrized versions are very easy to maintain (blued doesn't like the southeastern humidity), it's fairly accurate, they have great customer service, and it doesn't kick a bit due to the 32oz. weight.May want to get the trigger worked a bit, but other than that, I love mine. Especially with a set of Hogue wrap arounds for $14. You can probably pick up a used one ~$300.

For a sub-compact 9mm, I would reccomend the Bersa Thunder UC 9mm or the Taurus PT111 Pro. Both are built well, but at a good price. The Taurus will be lighter, have a 14+1 capacity, but I have heard they are hit or miss with quality and the customer service is lacking. Probably get one for $400-$450.

The Bersa can be had a bit cheaper ($350 new). I'm not sure about quality or accuracy, but they seem to get rave reviews from most owners.

The XD40 is an excellent gun, and of all you have mentioned, if it fits your hand well, I would buy it over all others.

Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:32 pm

cmfireman wrote:Mr1der and Charleo, range report on the PM40 and PT111 please. Any failures? How many rounds have you put through them?

I've went from wanting a pocket .380 to a sub-compact 9mm.

I'm currently between a Sig P239, PT111 Pro, Kahr PM9, the new Taurus PT709 "Slim" that hasn't got here yet, and the black sheep of the family, a Kimber Ultra CDP II (DAMN thats an expensive gun, but I found a good shop with a 0% layaway plan.)

My PT111 is 1,000 miles away right now.

But I can tell you, the 500 rounds I put through it before I moved to TX were very good. I have no complaints, everyone else who's fired it doesn't either.

No failures in 500 rounds, figure 250 in between cleanings.

I like the idea of the PT709, if I had to have a single carry gun. Fortunately for me, I can afford to have more than one and will be picking up an LCP or P3AT for times when my PT111 is too big.

Depends on how thin the 709 actually is. The 111 is pretty damn thin, and it's hard to beat 12+1 for a carry gun.

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:51 pm

I'm looking for a full size. Not going to CCW it.

I've been looking at some 10mm autos. Thoughts?

Post by **Mr1der** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:19 pm

if you want a 10, get a Glock an Elite Match Witness.

if you're worried about a warranty, get an XD, Springfield backs them up.

10mm is a fantastic round IF you plan on reloading it. otherwise it's hard to find and expensive.

Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:00 pm

PoorManQ45 wrote:I'm looking for a full size. Not going to CCW it.

I've been looking at some 10mm autos. Thoughts?

I find someone who just purchased a High-Point asking about 10mm a little amusing.

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:37 am

Everyone starts somewhere

Just looking for 357mag type performance in an autoloader.

*edit* To throw you in a complete ROFL I've been toying the idea of the 338 Lapua. Never know when you need to take zombies at 1200 yards...

Also looking at reloading equipment.

Post by **Mr1der** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:31 pm

learn how to shoot first

if you want a decent long range rifle, starting with a .308 isn't bad...cheap ammo and a lot of good rifles in it at good prices.

.357 Sig offers up good performance...recoil is usually a little sharper than the a .40 but it's an accurate round and being a bottleneck, you'll seldom have feeding issues.

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:36 am

I was actually looking at a 243 or 6mm for long distance as the trajectory is flatter out to 1000 yards then a 308.

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:48 pm

Mr1der wrote:learn how to shoot first

if you want a decent long range rifle, starting with a .308 isn't bad...cheap ammo and a lot of good rifles in it at good prices.

.357 Sig offers up good performance...recoil is usually a little sharper than the a .40 but it's an accurate round and being a bottleneck, you'll seldom have feeding issues.[/QUOTE

QUOTE=PoorManQ45]I was actually looking at a 243 or 6mm for long distance as the trajectory is flatter out to 1000 yards then a 308.

I'll take the .308 over the lightweight 6mm rounds, though. Wind at 1k is more of an issue than drop.

Look into the .270/7mm family. The .270 is, if memory serves, about 7" flatter at 500 yards than the .308.

Something to be said about the .308 support network, though.

Or then again, there's always .30-06...

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:28 am

Alot of people that partake in 1000 yard shooting competitions win using a 6.5mm or 260.

Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:10 pm

PoorManQ45 wrote:Alot of people that partake in 1000 yard shooting competitions win using a 6.5mm or 260.

Sure, and 100s of elephants have been killed with 7mm Mauser.

Doesn't mean that if I was planning to kill an elephant, I'd bring mine.

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:55 pm

Makes sense.

I like the smaller caliber with better shot placement mindset

Post by **Mr1der** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:11 pm

<---big caliber better placement.

Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:30 pm

PoorManQ45 wrote:Makes sense.

I like the smaller caliber with better shot placement mindset

Mr1der wrote:<---big caliber better placement.

Beat me too it.

You'd have some argument if .243 was cheaper than .270, .30-06, or .308, but it's not.

Plus, we know you're not a 1,000 yard shot, PMQ!

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:11 pm

I'm just waiting for funds to build up again.

I'll be picking up a .243. Then build up funds to buy a scope. I'm thinking a Remington 700 action rifle, not sure on the scope. I might go cheaper and give the Marlin XS7 a whirl as it has gotten great reviews.

Once that is setup and 1" high at 100, zeroed at 200, I'll be off to the 1000yard range to see if I can get lucky and even hit the paper/metal.

I'll post back in probably a year with results on this setup .

*edit* I agree on the ammunition cost. It sucks. Like I said previously, I am looking into reloading. I am getting all the literature I can find to study up. That should drop the cost considerably.

Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:02 pm

PoorManQ45 wrote:
*edit* I agree on the ammunition cost. It sucks. Like I said previously, I am looking into reloading. I am getting all the literature I can find to study up. That should drop the cost considerably.

So why not go for an easier to find, cheaper to purchase in both rifle and ammo, and superior (for the task) round?

There's something to be said for being different, but when money is that much of an issue...

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:33 am

Eh... The 270 and 30-06 are great calibers. I just don't see to many reviews with <5" groups at 1000 yards in these calibers.

I am looking for a paper puncher, that's it. It might take a deer or two every year, but probably not. This will be a bench rifle.

*edit* Thoughts on the 7mm RM for the long range task, and general hunting?

Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:54 am

PoorManQ45 wrote:Eh... The 270 and 30-06 are great calibers. I just don't see to many reviews with <5" groups at 1000 yards in these calibers.

I am looking for a paper puncher, that's it. It might take a deer or two every year, but probably not. This will be a bench rifle.

*edit* Thoughts on the 7mm RM for the long range task, and general hunting?

Look harder. The 6.5mm to 7mm range is considered to make the best round for F-class and the like, and the 6mm .243 is just too small, especially with any wind.

Anyway, this is all academic in nature, as the sort of rifle you're talking about making is out of both of our price ranges.

It's also pretty evident that you're main concern is a less than common cartridge. Might I suggest looking up one of the crazy 6.5mm wildcats that are out there?

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:19 am

I was looking at the 6.5mm also

Or a 260, or hell, a 280 for efficiency and power

Post by **BusyBadger** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:33 am

cmfireman wrote:SIG has also basically reincarnated the Colt Mustang with ugly grips (SIG P238). I really like the EMP styling, and think it would look sweet with some rosewood grips.

Here you go!

I've been looking eyeing these since they came out (I mentioned them back on page one of this thread) but .380 is a borderline no-go for me and I need an ambidextrous safety.

Post by **Mr1der** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:04 pm

you a southpaw too?

there's always the Kahr PM9!

doesn't have the sweet single action trigger like the Sig though, but it's also 9mm or you can get them in .40 or .45

Post by **BusyBadger** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:10 am

I can shoot a pistol/rifle with either hand, but I'm left eye dominant so I'm better with a pistol using my left hand and MUCH better with a rifle. For the rifle I think its more unfamilar shooting right-handed for my hands than its is for my eye. And in my military ingrained "plan for the worst" hope for the best mentality you never know when you may need to shoot off-hand. Fortunately I don't want, or need a true lefty 1911 as the only company I knowthat made them was Randall and those are quite pricey.

I really want a 1911 style cc piece but I've started weighing DA/SA and DAO pieces like the Walther PPS, P99SC, Beretta PX4 sub and the Sig G26. Deep conceal is a must for reasons I won't list here. The P238 fits both the size and 1911 mechanics (even if the calibre is a little lacking in power but not in price) and I read recently that Sig plans on releasing an ambi-safe P238 later on down the line. How long that is I have no idea. If they manage to chamber it in 9mm so much the better.

That being said there are a few manufacturers (Sig, ParaOrd, Kimber) that will make the modifications I want in-house and ship the gun for local pickup.

The Springfield EMP comes with an ambi safety, but its also got a $1300 price tag, hardly a deal when you consider the price a gunsmith would charge for the similar services.

Post by **PoorManQ45** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:25 am

I was playing with a couple 1911s the other day.

I'm not sure, what is so special about them that everyone talks about them?

Sure they felt nice, but is there like something really special that I don't know about?

Post by **Mr1der** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:31 pm

trigger, grip angle and nostalgia.

I'm not a HUGE fan of them, but I still like them.

Dave, I'm pretty partial to my DAO PM9..the trigger pull is kinda long, but it's light and smooth as glass.

Post by **BusyBadger** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:55 pm

Mr1der wrote:trigger, grip angle and nostalgia.

YES, yes and sort of. The nostalgia for me ties into the fact that there's a reason that the 1911 has been the standard measure for many for so long. Its a proven model.

Single action trigger pull is amazing in feel, especially if all you've ever shot is a DA/SA or a DAO - there is no comparisson.

Practicality is another reason the choosing something in the 1911 style. On one hand there's the knowledge that because its been around for so long almost anything modification that you might be curious about has already been done and consequently had all the issues worked out, and there's a HUGE group of users that might be able to help you or offer helpful suggestions along the way. In that way its a lot like the advantage of swapping a SR20 into a 240 instead of trying some esoteric VQ or 2JZ swap. The other big practicality point (and larger than the first, not sure why I listed them in this order) is that any gunsmith you find is going to have experience working on 1911's, its like the Ford Mustang of handguns and for this same reason ammo is rarely in short supply either.

Then there's the three integral safeties on it that make it impossible to fire (when handled by a trained user) unless they mean to. I had an old girlfriend freak out when she saw a cop carrying in Condition One (it was at a liquor store after some kids tried to pass a fake id), I just looked at it and then at him and gave a subtle, knowing nod. To her, she saw a gun with the hammer back that was ready to go off if someone sneezed. She asked me about it later and I explained how many things needed to happen for it to actually fire.

I don't think I'll be carrying a deep conceal piece in Condition One though, Israeli draw seems the way to go.

Post by **Logan76** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:08 pm

What do you feller's have to say about thompson center? I have a ruger .270, an H&R single shot heavy barrel .243, and a weatherby 7mm mag. My next gun will be a 30-06 I think, I like how with TC you can switch out barrels, single shot doesn't bother me either.

Post by **Mr1der** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:54 pm

the Encore is a fine pistol.

I've wanted a Contender since I saw Hard Target.

the Encore is just a beefier version.

Post by **Logan76** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:45 pm

I mean't they're rifles, my father in law and his dad used to shoot shilouttes with pistols and swore by Contenders.

Post by **Mr1der** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:56 am

the inline muzzle loaders or the rifles based off the Encore?

I require a new sub-compact pistol.

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