I randomly got two things today a picture and a transmission.

[David Steele]

I won (steal) a gtr 5 speed for my v8 project

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...h=019

and I found this

[Boosted 70z]

Are you going AWD?

[David Steele]

Are you going AWD?

Hell yes.

[hannibal]

Is that one of those old school Y series V8's??

[mtcookson]

Picture file name says VHR30, which came in the R87E and R88C I believe.

[David Steele]

Some vehicle pictures.

http://www.marchives.com/gallery/87h

[sinfiniti]

22 rocker cover (camshaft cover) bolts per head.... yikes!

[SeanDean]

Look at that huge underbody venturi tunnel just below the header runners to the turbo..... ahh GTP cars...... I remember them at Sebring as a kid...

[slownslurious]

what are you using for front spindles? I was thinking about a project like this (AWD S13) just thinking not planning one but the A31 cefiro AWD spindles look like an awful close match... a lot more compatible than the GTR equipment.goes without saying, but make sure you get the same front and rear axle ratios to keep things from blowing up.

oh, and yes GTR transmissions are quite cheap due to the recent surge in doing the RB26 swap and the usual conversion to RWD RB25 transmission (and the fact that there is basically 0 interest or application stateside for RB26 AWD trans).

[David Steele]

what are you using for front spindles? I was thinking about a project like this (AWD S13) just thinking not planning one but the A31 cefiro AWD spindles look like an awful close match... a lot more compatible than the GTR equipment.goes without saying, but make sure you get the same front and rear axle ratios to keep things from blowing up.

Spindle with be custom CNC'ed chromoly.

I'm very familar with 4wd as well as the ATTESSA ETS computer, I will be using a rear diferential in the front with intermediate shaft. ( dry sump).

GTR transmissions are quite cheap due to the recent surge in doing the RB26 swap and the usual conversion to RWD RB25 transmission (and the fact that there is basically 0 interest or application stateside for RB26 AWD trans).

Personally I've been looking for just the GTR 5 speed and people ask over 500 most of the time on all my occaisons that I've asked they've all said its for there rb26 swap and dont need the transmission. So I consider this to be a lucky price.

The VH will be adapted to this by plate I must make sure its coencentric with the clutch - input shaft .

[slownslurious]

what rear diff are you using on the front? I'm assuming its not gonna be a nissan one, fitting an R200 + driveshafts under a v8 in an S13 and having an engine that would fit between the core support and firewall without sticking up far enough to block your forward vision is prolly gonna be impossible.

[David Steele]

what rear diff are you using on the front? I'm assuming its not gonna be a nissan one, fitting an R200 + driveshafts under a v8 in an S13 and having an engine that would fit between the core support and firewall without sticking up far enough to block your forward vision is prolly gonna be impossible.

It is going to be a GTR rear diff because the ETS reads the VSS sensors off of it for the 4wd to work it permits me to have the knuckles without a VSS ring .

This is a front midship project so it isn't impossible and the front sub frame is scrap metal last but not least, GTR rear differentials arent R200's there bigger.

[David Steele]

Think about it clearly now.


Modified by David Steele at 10:41 PM 2/19/2007

[SeanDean]

Why not get a Skyline sump from the same person who sold you the transmission, or any other person who is doing an RB26 into a RWD car???

Then you can cut the upper edge off and weld on the VH oil pan flange.

Or even go to a Junkyard and get a front differential and oil pan from an older Acura Legend or Vigor (they ran longitudinal engines with FWD, but a RWD style transmission location and the output comes back forward, diff bolts to the oil pan).

As for spindles... something from an Altima or Maxima should work, or maybe even a Murano..... The AWD Cefiro spindles sound like a perfect option since the Cefiro was basically a 4door S13...

I mean I dont know how much money you have to spend on this thing, but unless its a whole freaking lot, you're prolly better trying to use as much off the shelf stuff as possible.

[David Steele]

Why not get a Skyline sump from the same person who sold you the transmission, or any other person who is doing an RB26 into a RWD car???

Then you can cut the upper edge off and weld on the VH oil pan flange.

Or even go to a Junkyard and get a front differential and oil pan from an older Acura Legend or Vigor (they ran longitudinal engines with FWD, but a RWD style transmission location and the output comes back forward, diff bolts to the oil pan).

Plain and simple, its weak and the GTR USES its' own special ratios and its needs its VSS for the 4wd torque transfer to work. I want STRONG driveline not something that breaks easily and I opted for a front midship I'm not gonna have it any other way.

Quote »As for spindles... something from an Altima or Maxima should work, or maybe even a Murano..... The AWD Cefiro spindles sound like a perfect option since the Cefiro was basically a 4door S13...[/quote]Custom spindles lets me get the right upper and lower control arm lengths I want. I'm not doing any OE equipment for uprights It's been decided and its not up for trial.

Quote »I mean I dont know how much money you have to spend on this thing, but unless its a whole freaking lot, you're prolly better trying to use as much off the shelf stuff as possible.[/quote]Don't worry about my money, this is a want not a need.

[slownslurious]

lol... "I'm GONNA do it the hard way so STFU"

alright man good luck with that, so much of the stuff you are talking about it just silly though. The only reason you would need the correct axle speed sensors is to use atessa, which will be programmed for the car it came out of (rb26 in a GTR) so it won't be as awesome in an s13 with a big v8 in the front.

Putting the v8 behind the firewall means the car is effectively illegal for all sanctioned competition events that immediately come to my mind.

And no, GTR's use an R200 in the rear as well.

If you want AWD that bad it would be cheaper and easier to buy a GTR and get it registered through your state, a ton of people have successfully done it already. You are making so much custom stuff, when all you would have had to do was get the GTR oilpan/front diff and the cefiro front spindles and probably had custom front axles made and been in business... if the atessa doesn't work you can always just use a rotary switch to control the percent of front torque split.

but hey its not my project.

[David Steele]

lol... "I'm GONNA do it the hard way so STFU"

No you dont like what I'm doing thats all.

alright man good luck with that, so much of the stuff you are talking about it just silly though. The only reason you would need the correct axle speed sensors is to use atessa, which will be programmed for the car it came out of (rb26 in a GTR) so it won't be as awesome in an s13 with a big v8 in the front.

First off the RB26 is longer and heavier than a VH45 and it doesnt matter what the system came out of it reads TPS/3 G sensors/VSS last but not least im not even using an OEM ETS control.

Putting the v8 behind the firewall means the car is effectively illegal for all sanctioned competition events that immediately come to my mind.

So that must mean front midengined race cars dont exist.

And no, GTR's use an R200 in the rear as well.

Not all of them.

If you want AWD that bad it would be cheaper and easier to buy a GTR and get it registered through your state, a ton of people have successfully done it already. You are making so much custom stuff, when all you would have had to do was get the GTR oilpan/front diff and the cefiro front spindles and probably had custom front axles made and been in business... if the atessa doesn't work you can always just use a rotary switch to control the percent of front torque split.

but hey its not my project.

This is why this place sucks because of people like you.


Modified by David Steele at 9:18 AM 2/20/2007

[slownslurious]

I usually like it when people take an interest in my project and try and make it succesful by suggesting easier/cheaper ways to make it work better, but if thats not your game you could throw up your idea on Z ilvia, where half of the 16 year olds will create little idols to you and worship you and the other half will say things like 'thats stupid youre a *** put in an SR20."

[David Steele]

No where was I asking for help or advice its nice but I'll be stern in telling you exactly how I'm going to do it.

Thanks anyway.
Modified by David Steele at 12:10 PM 2/20/2007

[Mettler]

David, the guys are only trying to help you. Some of the things you are suggesting are either going to be very expensive, or a mounting & fabrication nightmare.

I realise you are saying you don't want help, but trust me it pays to listen to every available information source when it comes to doing things. You may be doing things a certain way even when it's not absolutely necessary to.

I'd hate for your project to turn into another one of those you see on the net for like 2 years, before it disappears off into the oblivion of uncompleted projects.

Besides, with no photos it just looks like your project is all theory and no action.
Modified by Mettler at 6:24 PM 2/20/2007

[David Steele]

David, the guys are only trying to help you. Some of the things you are suggesting are either going to be very expensive, or a mounting & fabrication nightmare.

Dont worry I have it handled .

Quote »

I realise you are saying you don't want help, but trust me it pays to listen to every available information source when it comes to doing things. You may be doing things a certain way even when it's not absolutely necessary to. [/quote]It pays to listen but , just because they insist that I should place the engine ''here'' and use a Honda oil pan ''there'' doesnt mean I will do it. I have MOI (engine placement ), kinematics and common sense to think about. Let say I sure oh sure I'll place the engine way infront of the front tower center line now I cant place the large frame Garrett with the sequential pluse converter manifold (require both banks to join) in the center of the bay anymore and I can also forget about the V mount .Then the oil pan I weld an acura legend pan one to a VH pan. When it breaks how about a nice fast replacement? Not possible. GTR has its own troubles to worry about.



Quote »Besides, with no photos it just looks like your project is all theory and no action.[/quote]Measure twice cut once.

Thank you.

[slownslurious]

so where is the quick replacement for YOUR solution? CNC machined spindles? custom transmission adaptor? custom front driveshaft and output shafts, custom front cross member, custom dry sump system, custom pulse tuned exhaust manifolds??? you contradict yourself! you are doing one off parts for every conceivable application and then arguing that its the best way because of ease of replacement???that just doesn't make sense to me, IMO.. besides, who hear has broke an oilpan? I know one person who has, he ran into a 6" parking island running from the cops. And I know a lot of car guys. Pretty much any situation I can think of where you are breaking an oilpan, well, you are gonna have a lot more important things to worry about than an oilpan (like the subframe, frame damage, or piston/rod damage).

If you are so worried about moment of inertia concerns then why are you adding so much mass with the v8, turbocharger, and AWD system? I really don't think you are going to benefit from it that much when you consider all the factors. Are you prepared to design a custom suspension geometry? you are talking about upper and lower control arms, unless you are copying the geometry from an established model (GTR or whatever), any suspension system using 2 control arms has so many variables as to make it nearly impossible to design for the home enthusiast short of extensive modeling and trial and error.

Oh and for the record there is plenty of room to mount a T04E (or larger) turbocharger between the VH45DE and the radiator and still squeeze the v8 in front of the firewall.

I am not trying to "hate" on your project, its just that I am predicting based on your plans, your responses, and your high level of irritability and refusal to accept practical points of view even as alternatives, that this project will never see the light of day.

[David Steele]

so where is the quick replacement for YOUR solution? CNC machined spindles? custom transmission adaptor? custom front driveshaft and output shafts, custom front cross member, custom dry sump system, custom pulse tuned exhaust manifolds??? you contradict yourself! you are doing one off parts for every conceivable application and then arguing that its the best way because of ease of replacement???that just doesn't make sense to me, IMO.. besides, who hear has broke an oilpan?

Yeah go grab an acura legend oil pan... noob dont try to engineer my project with your noobish ideas the picture above is a GTR oil pan that shattered from pure TQ. If I have a rear differential up front this will never happen if it did I wont need to reweld my pan I dont need to anyway its a midship. All the above your speaking of is done be me a custom adaptor plate will never break retard. For the last time I dont need help especially not from you.

Quote » I know one person who has, he ran into a 6" parking island running from the cops. And I know a lot of car guys. Pretty much any situation I can think of where you are breaking an oilpan, well, you are gonna have a lot more important things to worry about than an oilpan (like the subframe, frame damage, or piston/rod damage). [/quote]Who are you talking to?

Quote »If you are so worried about moment of inertia concerns then why are you adding so much mass with the v8, turbocharger, and AWD system? I really don't think you are going to benefit from it that much when you consider all the factors. Are you prepared to design a custom suspension geometry? you are talking about upper and lower control arms, unless you are copying the geometry from an established model (GTR or whatever), any suspension system using 2 control arms has so many variables as to make it nearly impossible to design for the home enthusiast short of extensive modeling and trial and error. [/quote] Let see your professionally made car since you think you should give me all this advice how what to do.

Quote »Oh and for the record there is plenty of room to mount a T04E (or larger) turbocharger between the VH45DE and the radiator and still squeeze the v8 in front of the firewall. [/quote] Oh and btw didnt I tell you dont worry about my project?

Quote »I am not trying to "hate" on your project, its just that I am predicting based on your plans, your responses, an d your high level of irritability and refusal to accept practical points of view even as alternatives, that this project will never see the light of day.[/quote]I'll never take your advice EVER.

[slownslurious]

wow youre a real tool. let me tell you that no one will ever care how badass your car is when you act like such a giant bag of douce, and no one will want to help you when your grand schemes fail.

but I wouldn't worry about either of those since your car is gonna end up a ghetto engineered bag of poo and you refuse to take anyone's advice anyway.

ALMOST makes me want to engineer my own AWD s13 just so I could do it better than you, but since I'm confident yours won't even see the light of day I won't bother. Oh, that and I know the inherant limitations of the S13 platform and recognize that its cheaper, easier, and faster to start with something AWD if that what I want to end up with.

[Mettler]

Measure twice cut once.

Thank you.

You're telling me ? You forget I have already finished a well engineered VH conversion into another car (which only took around a year to finish), and am already building its second engine incarnation. It might not be penta-turbo with NOS and sixteen front mount intercoolers producing 20,000HP at the rear wheels, but I still faced quite a number of technical problems with the conversion, measured the **** out of it, and solved the issues, just like other guys on here have to as well.

I look forward to seeing some progress in your project.

[SuperHatch]

This thread is... well, sad. I don't really care who thinks what way to complete a project is better. Each owner is entitled to their own opinion on what is the best way to reach an end goal. However, to beat someone up over their choice, regardless of your opinion on it is wrong. And to be so closed minded to others opinions is also wrong.

Can't we all just get along?

[Guishnu]

While i admire what your doing mate, it does seem like your trying to over engineer everything. If you have the knowledge to do things, then go for it. But there is a lot of knowledge on here and a lot of very clever people who have experience with VH45 engines.

Just a thought...

[XRATED]

Ha ha ha I love it. This all started because he bought a GTR gear box cheap!

Not to mention the gearbox WILL fail with any sort of track work at the sugested power levels and torque. 3rd gear goes bang...

Oh, I don't know about anywhere else, but all the s13's I've ever sat in havn't been that big inside... Your VH rocker covers will make neat arm rests.... and you'll need to have some one sitting on the back seat to change gears for you.

Jesus people... back to reality.

[slownslurious]

yes and I think of fat girls when I masturbate

c'mon we all gotta dream sometime

might as well dream big.

who said its better to be a catastrophic failure than a mediocere success?

[one ton garage]

Interesting... so much concern over "true engineering"... yet V- mount intercooler/radiator setups are one of the more detrimental ways to run those two heat exchangers in a "performance" application that will see any speed.

Hmmm, ya know what was an awesome custom AWD car? The good ole quadradeuce... look at that for inspiration. And no V-mounts pls if you're gonna go so far with all other aspects of the build up.