i need better braking!

[mmm240]

i was thinking about the Z32 calipers (since they are 4 piston) could i do this on an S13? without any modifications? (i don't want the disks becouse they would need to be re-drilled) i also plan on replacing the disks as well. what do you recomend? and some stainless lines of course.

i have a 93 240 with 17x7in wheels (so a bigger disk wouldn't be a problem)i just can't justify spending 2-3 thousand on a "big brake kit". a lot of people do the Z32 conversion which consists of the disks and calipers, but i only want the calipers from the Z32. and would like to upgrade to a better than Z32 disk and pads

let me know your thoughts!

[naed240sx]

Makes no sense at all that you only want the calipers. The bigger rotors are half of the upgrade, and you can drill them yourself.

Z calipers won't work with stock rotors.

[mmm240]

i would like to get better than Z32 rotors. and i want the calipers because i consider it a good price for 4 piston calipers

[naed240sx]

i would like to get better than Z32 rotors. and i want the calipers because i consider it a good price for 4 piston calipers

Ohh, sorry, I kinda read over you mentioning that. Keep in mind that z32 rotors are easy to drill, and will perform very well. Going bigger might be overkill. You planning on tracking the car?

But to answer your question, go with SPL's 350z rotor conversion. Their kit allows the use of 350z rotors on an s13 with z32 brakes.

SPL big rotor front upgrade kit



Larger brake rotors, even with stock calipers, can provide a significant improvement in braking over stock rotors. The larger diameter moves the caliper further from the center of the hub, which gives the caliper more leverage thus increasing brake torque (with the same pedal pressure and pad friction). The larger rotors also have more thermal mass, which reduces brake fade. The big brake rotor upgrade is a very cost effective upgrade that provides real improvements to braking.



We offer this kit with a 350Z PowerSlot 1-piece slotted plated 12.8" rotor (vs. 10.8" stock Z32 rotors) with our custom CNC machined billet T2024-T3 (Super Duralumin) aircraft aluminum adapter/bracket.



Note: 30mm 300ZX calipers required (kit does not work with early 90 model 300ZX 26mm calipers) and not included with kit. 17" wheels (min. 385mm inside diameter) required for clearance .

Obviously you won't make be sweeping the entire rotor area, but you still get better torque on the rotor because of the size, and better heat dissapation. You will have to drill these as well.

[aaronsnocker1]

How about this kit. It should be all that you are looking for. I am considering getting it for my s14 4 lug. http://www.arizonazcar.com/240sxbrakes.htmlIt looks reasonable for price and I think somebody on here has this setup and said it was good.

[180fan]

Or you could steup up to the Greddy/Alcon kit, or the Project Mu kit or the Endless kit. All those should run you past 2k but come in 4 or 6 pot configurations and some of em have optional +1" or +2" rotors if you want to cough up the extra cash for em.

[mmm240]

You planning on tracking the car?

yessir!

[Q45tech]

If you are dealing with one piece rotors weight is the major criteria, as in, if you double the rotor weight the new rotor will gain half the temperature of the old rotor under identical stopping situation.

A 280 x 28 [Q45] or a 280 x 30 [300zxtt] is ~~20 lbs.

[cosmoworks]

i only want the calipers from the Z32. and would like to upgrade to a better than Z32 disk and pads

You want Z32 calipers and you also want better than Z32 rotors? Get the Punk Racing relocation brackets: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...91379

And a set of Z33 track rotors: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

And you'll be set... of course you'll have to redrill the rotors to 4-lug regardless.

-Cosmo

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I need new brakes too...takes abnormally long for me 2 stop...

[mmm240]

If you are dealing with one piece rotors weight is the major criteria, as in, if you double the rotor weight the new rotor will gain half the temperature of the old rotor under identical stopping situation.

A 280 x 28 [Q45] or a 280 x 30 [300zxtt] is ~~20 lbs.

so what about brakes that need to be at a certain temp to operate at their potential?

[mmm240]

i hate to skimp on such an important performance part, but i can't justify spending the amount i paid for the car on brakes. i know that rotors warp, thus causing them to be insufficient, but what about the calipers. what bad can come from using used calipers (four piston from a Z32) this is why i would like to use the calipers, but not the rotors from a Z32. i have done some searching and have found that if i want to do a budget brake upgrade i will have to re-drill the rotors, which means to me that they will not be as strong as they could. please correct me if i am wrong

[mmm240]

search after search i think i may have it. i want the 30mm aluminum rotors from the 94+ Z32? i haven't noticed that the calipers were any different year to year. please correct me if i am wrong. i think i may go with the SPL front rotors (from the Z33, with the mounting brackets for the Z32 calipers) with Z32 rear brakes. worth it? or should i just go with Z32 brakes all around? i need to know what year i should get because i really think i should go with new parts (i am already skimping enough) and the dealership will need to know exactly what year parts i need edit: what brake lines would you reccomend? i am thinking goodridge (SS) with some dot 4 fluidedit x2: i should also replace the master cylinder correct? with one from a Z32?

[cosmoworks]

Any caliper from a Z32 that is NOT from a 1990 NA version will take a 30mm rotor. During 1992, the Z32 calipers switched from Aluminum to Iron, but remained "30mm".

If you decide to go Z32 all around, then definitely go to a larger master cylinder. Personally I like the feel of the 17/16" version. To save some cash on the Z33 front rotor setup (which uses the Z32 caliper), see my post above for alternate sources.

-Cosmo

[EazyBreazy]

search after search i think i may have it. i want the 30mm aluminum rotors from the 94+ Z32? i haven't noticed that the calipers were any different year to year. please correct me if i am wrong. i think i may go with the SPL front rotors (from the Z33, with the mounting brackets for the Z32 calipers) with Z32 rear brakes. worth it? or should i just go with Z32 brakes all around? i need to know what year i should get because i really think i should go with new parts (i am already skimping enough) and the dealership will need to know exactly what year parts i need edit: what brake lines would you reccomend? i am thinking goodridge (SS) with some dot 4 fluidedit x2: i should also replace the master cylinder correct? with one from a Z32?

there are no aluminum rotors, you are talking about calipers. As far as calipers are concerned, there are 2 types:30mm aluminum found on the tt models, and 30mm steel found on the na models. afaik braking performane is the same, only the tt model calipers lessen the amount of unsprug weight.

if you are going to do the full z32 conversionmake sure you get the ebake cable. also people often recomend the z32 brake master cylider beecause has a larger plunger, keeping the brake pedal firmer than when using the stock bmc w/ a z32 brakes.

do some research on brake pads, to find the best ones for you, and the driving conditions you see most often, then buy some more aggresive pads for track days

ss lines are almost a necessity because they're the only kind of conversion lines around.(see spl)

also i don't think the z33 rotors are necessary, as i doubt very seriusly you would feel the results unless you have some serious r-compound rubber on the car. in addition it limits you to no smaller than 17 inch wheels whereas the standard z32 swap you can still use 16.(16" r-compound=cheaper)

[mmm240]

thanks a lot everyone!!! off to the dealership i will go. or maybe an autoparts store, depends on the prices. is there anyone that sells the full Z32 conversion w/re-drilled rotors?

[DanS]

How much you looking to spend? I just saw these for just under 800$ and have trouble thinking of anything that would stop harder on an S13 for the money.

http://www.arizonazcar.com/240sxbrakes.html

[mmm240]

i saw them too, but the full set would be 1600, i think i will go through heavy throttle. it's too bad they don't offer the calipers or rear Z32 brakes. i wonder if i just went with the front Z32 brakes if i could get away with the stock master cylinder. i know that the front does most of the braking, but there is something wrong with my rear calipers (e-brake won't work, no matter what i do to adjust it)

[Q45tech]

so what about brakes that need to be at a certain temp to operate at their potential?

A single stop from 60 mph raises the front rotor temperature ~~ 150F from ambient [temp before the stop]............if you double the mass of the rotor assembly the rotor only increases by ~~ 75F.

Now from 120mph it goes up by 600F [and sheds some during the stop due to air flow and time to stop] probably 450F -500F net.

You must SIZE the rotor mass to meet the criteria of the pad friction material you are using. Every racing team tests the pads [they chose] for friction vs temperature and friction vs application speed. Then they install thermocuples inside pads and calipers and sometime IR sensors to read rotors................they understand PERFECTLY what they have installed.

A SECRET is that pads age and change friction throughout life and thickness sometimes very different from new to middle to end!

Just like brake fluid once you ever boil it, it is almost worthless the next application why they change fluids every day even with the best.

OEM pads are designed to be very very stable so that new and middle friction vs temp and speed are very consistent so the average driver is never surprised.............unlike many aftermarket pads!

[DanS]

I made a call to the folks who make the set that I posted the pic of above. They were very kind and informative and told me that they offer a great many systems and they just show pics of the big dogs.

In short you may be able to talk to them about a little less system for less coin that will outperform the Z brakes your looking at.

On my VW Golf I had a set of big Audi TT front binders that came with the set of alt geometry tt spindles. The car was wicked fun and damn capable most of the time but at the track it was still a 3000lb car with most of that in the nose, all the work in the world was never going to fix it. One thing that I never had a problem with however was stopping power or fade. Add some mass and use good quality parts and good things happen. I was going to go oversize on the rear discs but even with the stock size and upgrades pad they never let me down even in the 5th session in the 19th min.

In short I would not be afraid to go with the 800$ set above and keep the stock rear while I found out if I needed more.

On a side note, the S14 I just bought has the conversion up front that you seek, about how much do those go for anyway?

[mmm240]

On a side note, the S14 I just bought has the conversion up front that you seek, about how much do those go for anyway?

http://heavythrottle.com/

but they don't offer the calipers

[Q45tech]

If the oem system is as new [oem pads and rotors and rebuilt calipers and o rings master cylinder new flex lines with clean correct brake fluid......most peoples brake problems have to do with failure to use soft fast wearing tires equal to oem that came new on car. Someyhing around 200 treaswear index.

Not unusal to see 25-30 feet difference from just 50 mph between the best and average mediocre all season tires. In wet it is worse.

[mmm240]

i have some BF Goodrich G-force sports, in 215/45/17. i can't even get them to lock up in dry. who knows what crappy brand pads the previous owner put on the car.

[s13rb25det]

I have the z32 calipers with the z33 rotors and adapters they look nice and stop me pretty good, but if I did it again I would just go with the z32 rotors or mabye the wilwood kit on arizonazcar.com

[Q45tech]

can't even get them to lock up in dry. who knows what crappy brand pads the previous owner put on the car.

Master cylinder and old rubber lines and off course life time warranty pads.

I did that to myself one time with expensive fancy high performance pads blew thru a stop sign with both feet on the pedal..........the pads didn't work below 300F took two 60 mph stops to get them warm enough.

Remember even in Summer 100F ambient unapplied coolish pads may not be much above 150-200F.

Important to measure the retardation [braking force] in 0.0 G with pedal pressure cold and warm and hot.

Oem pads are the only pads that must meet US Federal standards for both cold and warm stopping. Cold is not really cold as it is measured at 100-200F............usually the oem actually test COLD as in 32F stopping.

[hannibal]

I personally wouldnt spend the extra cash for the SPL Z33 kit until I tried the stock Z32 calipers and rotors. With a good set of pads, braided lines, and good fluid, they should be sufficient.

You can buy Z32 Brembo blanks from NOPI. Price is ~$30 per rotor.

Also, SPL sells the Z33 adapters (without discs) for $179. I'd trust them more than that Ebay company...

Off topic: Anybody know who makes those coilovers in the Arizona Z Car link?

[s13rb25det]

the "ebay" z33 adapters are the same as spl ones, they just cost less! I got mine for a $100 shipped they are sold buy a nico member, I dont want to say names but he has posted on this thread! he's a helpful, nice, guy that got me a good deal on the adapters and rotors. I would buy from him again. and yes the z33 rotors are overkill for just cruising around

[mmm240]

where can i find a SS e-brake cable?

[hannibal]

umm, I not sure where to get a stainless steel cable, but they have adapter kits on Ebay, or you can grab them from a Z32.

[EazyBreazy]

where can i find a SS e-brake cable?

im pretty sure all ebrake cacles are stainless steel, most work like bicycle brakes