I might need a new battery?

[gwoods]

I'm a salesman. Today I pulled into a gas station to do some work on my laptop. I had stopped and parked for about 20 min. When I stopped I hit the start button twice to turn on accesories and rolled the windows down it was 76 today in Phoenix, sorry. I know that since I was under the awning and the headlights were on auto they were on the entire time I sat parked.

When I tried to start the G it went click click click click click. dead battery?

A nice guy gave me a jump start. I drove about 4 miles to a Checker auto parts and had them test the battery and charging system. The test tool said the battery was 'abnormal'

Now I am just a few miles shy of 50,000 miles but the G is a 07?

What do you guys think??

[awdjdmtalon]

G. I will give you some advice on the batteries.

1. If you are going to go w/ an Optima, use the Yellow top. I have had VERY bad luck w/ the Red tops. I am not the only one. Several of my friends have had Red tops fail on them as well. I personally went through 5 red tops in 4 yrs. I finally switched to a yellow top and never had another problem.

2. The standard lead acid batterys are MUCH cheaper and will last as long as the Optima's. You can actually purchace 2 lead plate batteries for the cost of a single yellow top.

3. The 2 advantages to the Optima are, they are slighly lighter, and they are more resistant to vibration. OH and 3. HAHA. They can be mounted in any position.

[Jacko3]

Buy new battery immediately! Do not recharge. If you wanna save your alternator, do it now. You have less than 2 weeks before your alternator really starts the process of developing problems that will lead to its ultimate death sooner than it should. Buy Duralast Gold 800 CCA battery--it is yellow in color. It works excellently for 2.5 - 3 years (I beleive thats how long the warranty lasts). However, replace it before the end of the warranty with another new Duralast, and they will prorate te price for you at Autozone. Battery costs around $89. Excellent battery I have been using for the past 4 years and it has never disappointed.

[Poyzinous]

Stick with the factory Interstate battery. Battery series 35C. It should have 550 or 590 CCA and is the simplest choice. Dealers should stock them.

[joe603]

Only get the Optima if you have an aftermarket stereo...otherwise, just get a decent autozone/car store battery.

[tollboothwilley]

Optima Yellow or Duralast Platinum.

In addition what awdjdmtalon said, you will also get a lot higher reserve capacity and CCA with a gel cel battery.

The reserve capacity would have helped you in this situation!

[SVTCOBRA]

Have had good luck with Duralast Gold.

Consumer reports likes the following 24/24F:Interstate Mega Tron PlusEverStart Maxx-24NEverStart Maxx-24SDieHarg GoldDuralast Gold (then three others)

Would still go with Duralast. Duralast is rated 1st or 2nd in all of the other groupings....

[Sentientbydesign]

]

Buy new battery immediately! Do not recharge. If you wanna save your alternator, do it now. You have less than 2 weeks before your alternator really starts the process of developing problems that will lead to its ultimate death sooner than it should.

Massive amounts of

Stick with the factory Interstate battery. Battery series 35C. It should have 550 or 590 CCA and is the simplest choice. Dealers should stock them.

Interstate and Duralast are made by the same manufacturer IIRC. Actually, they have like 4 or so brands.

I like the Duralast Gold because it comes with roadside assistance for a year or three.

[C-Kwik]

G. I will give you some advice on the batteries.

1. If you are going to go w/ an Optima, use the Yellow top. I have had VERY bad luck w/ the Red tops. I am not the only one. Several of my friends have had Red tops fail on them as well. I personally went through 5 red tops in 4 yrs. I finally switched to a yellow top and never had another problem.

2. The standard lead acid batterys are MUCH cheaper and will last as long as the Optima's. You can actually purchace 2 lead plate batteries for the cost of a single yellow top.

3. The 2 advantages to the Optima are, they are slighly lighter, and they are more resistant to vibration. OH and 3. HAHA. They can be mounted in any position.

The differences between the Red and Yellow Optima's are that the red Optima is a starter battery and the Yellow Optima is a deep cycle battery. Starter batteries in general do not like to be depleted. Doing so causes them to start losing capacity. Each time you deplete one, the capacity gets lower and lower. Red Top Optima's from my expereience do seem to be susceptible to this more than other batteries I've used.

Deep Cycle batteries are designed to be able to drained completely and recharged again without a loss of capcity. IIRC, its has something to do with the quality of materials, which is why they are more expensive. They are typically designed for use with boats and motorhomes as these types of vehicles tend to sit for long periods of time and may become discharged. A Typical starter battery used in such an application may not last more than a couple of seasons for many people. The disadvantage is that for a given capacity, they have lower Cold Cranking Power. However, this should only be an issue in areas that see some rather low temperatures during the winters depending on the battery's rating and car's usage of amperage.

As an aside, the Blue-Top Optimas are the same as the Yellow Top Optima only instead of side posts, you get a threaded post on top in addition to the regular top post. Since none of my cars use side posts, I usually look for the Blue-Top as it gives me a great place to attach additional wiring to it (Perhaps for an Amp) without having to try and make it work with the factory battery terminal connector. All you need to find is the appropriate nut to attach to the secondary post. With the G35, I had found that there was an available terminal on the connector though so it probably wouldn't be a big deal in that application.

Only get the Optima if you have an aftermarket stereo...otherwise, just get a decent autozone/car store battery.

Aside from potentially gaining a slight boost in capacity, there isn't much advantage to an Optima for use with a high end system. If keeping up with the power demands is an issue, then a capacitor would be the better option. Batteries have a limit to available instantaneuos power as higher amperage draws cause a voltage drop. Capacitors help maintain a more steady voltage.

Personally, I use the Deep Cycle Optimas because they are damn reliable. I never have to worry about killing a battery because I left the light on. I just jump start it and its good as new. My first Deep Cycle Optima was in my 1st 240sx for about 2 years. Transferred it to my second 240 when I bought it and had that car for 4.5 years. I must have drained it completely about 6-7 times easy. Never had a need to change the battery when I had the G as I only had that car for 2 years. But I got my 04 Titan in 06. I had to change the battery within a month. Listening to the stereo for 20 minutes with the car off would kill it. Switched to the Blue-Top. My mom's van conversion has a yellow-top. Its used by my parent's more as a vacation vehicle so it tends to see use cycles not to dissimilar from motorhomes. I need to find one for my dad's work truck as he uses the Frontier for most jobs now as it saves him gas money.

About the only thing that really sucks about Optimas are that they have limited configurations. In both 240's I had to use a spacer to lift the battery high enough to use the factory tiedown. In the Titan, I've had to ditch the lower tiedown system and add my own as the best fitting Optima is too narrow. The top posts can also be odd to work with as they tend to be located closer to the center than with more typical batteries. In fact the reason I chose the narrower batter for the Titan was because it was the only one that the factory terminal would attach to. And even then, its a tight fit.

[joe603]

When I replaced the battery, I had less power issues with my stereo amp. Using the OEM battery, when a bass note hit (and the system was turned up) the car would physically slow down! The Yellow Optima reduced this occurrence.

I already had a 1F CAP...

[SVTCOBRA]

]I like the Duralast Gold because it comes with roadside assistance for a year or three.

Yep, forgot about the little card they gave me!

Plus, I got $20 off my recent battery purchase because of the points I had built up.

[TrueWangan]

Check your engine's cranking amps/voltage. Any battery that performs to that level should be ok.

On my previous vehicles, when my original batteries died, i would change them to a much smaller, lighter Braille dry cell battery. Odyssey makes a good one too.

I would be curious to find out what exactly the cranking amps are for a VQ35HR.

[Jacko3]

Nate:

Dead Battery = dead alternator (period). Its happened to me before until I figured it out. Never let a battery die on you, or else, the alternator will be toast pretty soon. I know you don't beleive me but a good alternator can recharge a dead battery, if car is jumpstarted, and thus make a dead battery seem like it is still useable and good. Don't be deceived when this happens. Just buy a good battery and save your alternator from working too hard to charge the battery. Replacing batteries more frequently, is far cheaper than replacing alternators, assuming the alternator is healthy and alive. I am speaking from my experience.

I once replaced a battery, and a few days later, my alternator died. But when I replaced both at the same time, car was okay for a long time. So, sometimes, a dead battery can be a sign that an alternator is slowly dying. And testing an alternator is not a perfect science. It has to be done in the correct temperature and humidity, and engine rev, or else you get a false reading.

I prefer a dead battery than a dead alternator, especially in a manual transmission car. It is also possible that more modern cars are less prone to the phenomenon I just stated. I have found no evidence to that effect yet.


Modified by Jacko3 at 3:14 PM 2/4/2009

[gwoods]

I checked the battery today with my amp meter before heading to work and it had 12.6 volts in it?

Now that I have driven the car for 50 miles or so I'm going to check it again at a auto parts store. If its bad I will probably go with a lead acid with higher CCA... I think the current battery is only 590 amps

[Sentientbydesign]

Jacko,

Your situation was a fluke and you're making it sound like it's one of the 10 commandments "Thou shalt not use a dying battery as it whilst kill thine electro-magneto-rechargerometer".

An alternator is basically a magnet attached to a pulley with a ton of copper wire wound inside the casing. Magnet turns, creates current (some electronics likely modify or limit the current) and your spark goes *zzzz!*

Limited experience is NEVER a good basis for accepting something as true. Forgive me as I come from an education discipline that is forced to disprove itself in every possible way before proof is accepted as true.

[Jacko3]

Nate:

I am not pleased with your response! I beleive I have been driving longer than you have. Maybe its a good thing if you listened sometimes to the words of experience sometime. How old were you in 1989 when I first handled a car? My good friend, humility is a great trait if you want to grow up wiser.

A car is a complete system. Yes, an alternator is simply a magnet, made from a spindle, copper wires, and brushes. A dead battery forces the alternator to deliver more charging capacity to the battery. In so doing, more load is put on the alternator and thus on the copper wires inside of it. The higher the load, the higher the heat level generated inside those copperwires. Once the heat rises to a certain level, it can break any point on those wires. Copper is a very soft metal that conducts electricity well but is also too soft and is relatively corroded over time. so, the older the car, the more its alternator is prone to damage because of corrosion in the copper and because of the many years of of the copper wires expansion and contraction while delivering its electrical load to the battery.

The newer the battery, the less the amount of load placed on an alternator. It does little work at this point to ensure that the battery is charged and thus its copper wires doesn't get heated as much becasue of limited load.

The more you demand electricity from a copper wire, the hotter it will get, and thus more prone to breaking and damage. The less you demand electricty from a copper wire, the cooler it wil be, and thus less prone to breaking or damage.

And by the way, the education discipline DOES not lend itself to disproving things. Statisitics and math does that. And if you must know, I do have a significant level of experience in the quantitative side of the house.

And finally, you and I are NOT on the same educational level or educational variation/quality, not by a long shot. TRUST ME WHEN I SAY THAT. You will have to spend many years or more to get to where I am. We are not competing here at all.

I just did not spend a lot of my youth tinkering with cars because i was busy with other things in my life at that time. And so, when i don't know stuff, I ask. I also have not made any comments to belittle you about your education, have I? Your education compared to mine is EXTREMELY limited---no comparison at all---night and day. So, you may want to adjust your attitude when you speak with me about cars.

Just because I am jovial does not mean i am stupid, and that you can speak to me as you please. Never ever underestimate anyone. Thats a sound rule of life I hope you take seriously. Maybe you did not mean to speak to me the way you did, but it came across to me as being condescending. So, it became imperative for me to outline a little of where i am in this life and where you might be in yours.


Modified by Jacko3 at 8:55 PM 2/4/2009

[gwoods]

guys chill out, your both right

A battery with a dead cell or internal short could damage an alternator. Its also almost impossible.

I don't think my battery is bad. I had it tested again tonight and it came back as normal. I will probably replace the battery before the summer heat just incase.

[BrandAidDesignG35]

Jacko,

"Thou shalt not use a dying battery as it whilst kill thine electro-magneto-rechargerometer".

But yeah guys... chill out, I think the mods are asleep.

[SVTCOBRA]

Never ever underestimate anyone. Thats a sound rule of life I hope you take seriously.

This is VERY sound advice!!! (not taking sides, just saw this and strongly agree)

[zozoka1212]

It must be the freezing winter weather in Cali and Florida.LOL

Jeff hope you can solve this problem.

zozo

[gwoods]

Its that damn global warming that Al Gore tried to warn us about.... Oh snap you said its cold,,,,, I don't know what the problem is then.

[joe603]

You know the problem could be just corroded terminals...

[Sentientbydesign]

Jacko,

YGM

Everybody else, I did some research...

Essentially, the only way that an alternator (in good condition) could fry is if the battery were short circuited or failing in a similiar manner in which case the battery would be drawing excessive current in addition to the vehicle's normal current draw.

The combination could overload the alternator and cause a failure. So in that respect, I concede.

On the flip side, a dead battery. As in one, that still holds a charge, but has been depleted of it's reserve capacity will not kill an alternator by being recharged (though this will place a higher load on the alternator).

Also, IIRC, the recharge circuit on most newer Nissan's has some intricate fusing. I don't want to say this for sure, but I have a very strong feeling that the fuses would blow before a BAD battery (not to be confused with DEAD) could overload the alternator and cause it to fail.

Jeff,

Go get a new battery and

[AZhitman]

Gotta side with SBD on this one. I have gone through multiple batteries in well over 50 vehicles. Alternator function remains constant regardless of battery condition (except in cases like Nate mentioned).

Bottom line: Replace battery, be happy.

[C-Kwik]

When I replaced the battery, I had less power issues with my stereo amp. Using the OEM battery, when a bass note hit (and the system was turned up) the car would physically slow down! The Yellow Optima reduced this occurrence.

I already had a 1F CAP...

Joe, consider for a moment that a 3000 Watt system that maxes out momentarily is equivalent to 4 HP. If an alternator is 60% efficient, then that's a total load on the motor of about 7 HP. And that is without a Cap.

My guess is that your battery wasn't operating in prime condition. If the voltage was low then the alternator will be operating at a higher load. If it maxes out, and there is still more demand for power, then the voltage will drop. If it drops enough, it could easily affect sensor readings or perhaps the operation of the ECU, ignition coils, fuel pump, etc., which could cause a loss in power. In such a case, ANY good battery would have fixed the issue.

[Jacko3]

Nate:

I would agree. The fuse theory is a very credible theory. Of course, my discussion was based on all things being equal. Of course, all things cannot always be equal, and you accurately stated why all things cannot always be equal. So, i agree with you.

[SteveTheTech]

Short and simple of seeing broken cars for years. Continual use of a low or weak battery with increased current demand (heat,radio,headlights) will max out the current capability of a modern internally regulated. I know allot of you guys have experienced otherwise, but putting the physics theory aside and thinking about the practical implication of using an internal regulator in a heat sensitive environment will cause component degradation at an expedited rate. That is not a rule, it's just an observation, some people may be able to drive for months with a dead battery, but why risk it? A dead battery in my first car took out my alternator while commuting to my night job, about 30 miles from my first job (I was dating a waitress there). After that party on the shoulder in rush hour traffic I bought the largest CCA Interstate battery that would fit and haven't had another issue.

[tollboothwilley]

+1

I think that if you are running a depleted battery you can and will put excess stress on your alternator. This eventually will wear out the alternator.

Steve, how is that new car of yours?