Last I checked, the state was broke. Their infrastructure is failing, people are bailing in droves, businesses are moving to more biz-friendly locales, the housing market is in shambles, and local politics has crippled the state's economy... So, what do they do?

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/n ... sions.html

California Uber Alles!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN-_UOvw ... re=youtube[/youtube]

Sounds like Governor Moonbeam strikes again. Who cares if we're bankrupt, bring on the EV's!

typical.

AZhitman wrote:Last I checked, the state was broke. Their infrastructure is failing, people are bailing in droves, businesses are moving to more biz-friendly locales, the housing market is in shambles, and local politics has crippled the state's economy... So, what do they do?

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/n ... sions.html

They have always been way ahead of the rest of the nation.

1-Emissions
2 Smog control
3 Smoking

Just to name a few. I'm sure there are more

Telcoman

Like being broke. Very progressive.

themadscientist wrote:Like being broke. Very progressive.

Beat me to it, although I was going to say bankrupt cities. Along with...

Early release for violent offenders - Especially charming since this is happening all over the state as more cities approach insolvency...strike that, it's too soft a word...they're going dead a** broke.

Oh, and then there's that whole Solyndra thing, even Rahm was smart enough to GTFO of Dodge after that s*** sandwich showed up as the blue plate special.

Socialism...it's great until you run out of someone else's money.

And thanks for the DK link Mike, hadn't heard that in a long time.

CA's emissions and smog control measures are nothing more than a money grab - more socialism.

If it was truly effective, it couldn't be easily circumvented.

AZ has stronger emissions laws than CA, but I wouldn't expect anyone from NJ to read that in Mother Goose News.

There's a lot of reasons CA isn't booming - and most of them are political.

Burn California, burn like the effigy of statist wet dreams that you are. Apparently reality didn't get the Liberals' talking points and punished bad ideas objectively.

Learn to swim.

AZhitman wrote:Learn to swim.

We need to buy oceanfront property in Nevada.

Z

i cant wait till MEXifornia totally collapses. i cant wait till it reaches a status where it cant pay its cops anymore, and fires them all or forces them to work for free.
early release of violent offenders + not enough cops + tons of illegals + normal people fleeing the state + tons of gangs + taxing the wealthy + abusing the working class = disaster. maybe then the left will see that their visions for utopia are not feasible?? doubt it.

I'm fairly certain that California doesn't "tax the wealthy" because, if you're a "wealthy" person in California... chances are you have a separate residence where you "pay taxes" and are therefore exempt from paying California taxes. It's how most "wealthy" people would get around having to pay taxes in general.

^ Yep.

And yet, Hollywood pinheads have no problem spouting off about how others should be taxed.

Either way, their phony progressivism is laughable. They're lucky they have such a disproportionate IQ-to-income ratio (Hollywood certainly skews it).

Now that you've had your turn with your criticism of California, AZ, why don't you quit with the garbage and try criticizing your own government and the "conservative" governments around the country that aren't capable of balancing their own books without living off of states like California who provide them with more money through the federal government than they send in? "Conservative" states routinely take more from the feds than they send in while states like California take back less than they send the feds. Apparently you "conservatives" can't survive on your own without us.

Although not nearly the only reason for California's economic woes a major part has been ineffective federal representation by California congressional delegations who don't demand that the federal government either provide the same percentage of return on California's federal investment as other states or stop the federal government from demanding programs they don't completely pay for.

Instead of b*tching about California dig a little deeper and realize that Governor Brown has been slashing to make ends meet. Read this story from Reuters.

http://news.yahoo.com/governor-brown-un ... 09838.html

Your initial post and followup provides nothing factual in terms of dollars and cents as to what the the electric car program will cost in the long run compared to the long-term financial benefits. Provide facts, not the typical opinions and speculation that conservatives like to spew as factual.

That would all be well and good if I held "Conservative" viewpoints. As such, it's kind of a moot point.

Nowhere did I say you were a straight conservative. Just that your criticisms and statements in this thread are typical of the same kind of thing we routinely see from conservatives. They never let facts get in the way of their ideology or opinions.

You have an obsession with finding fault and criticizing California. Why? Are you afraid that if California goes under financially your state will have to quit sucking at the federal government's teat?

Disagreeing with progressive, lefty ideology doesn't mean I'm a conservative. It means I think and analyze things from a rational, logical, unemotional point of view. If that reminds you of conservatives, that's fine, but I ain't one.

Since you asked, AZ is doing just fine. We're not even in the top 15 states receiving Fed funding, and 2013 promises to be a huge year (CA, not so much).

CA is low on the list of teat-drainers, but that's only until the property tax fairy bails for more fertile fields. Besides, CA might want to ask for some federal funds to fix its crap freeways - Those things are 3rd-world status.

Might also be important to look at what the money is spent on (because, y'know, those things matter). Considering 13% (and rising) of our population is over 65 (compared to CA's 10% and dropping), maybe a peek at the Medicare rolls might be in order.

We're a little weary of the self-important pinheads coming over here, buying up foreclosed homes, and turning them into rentals (or moving here because they can't afford to live there anymore), but the good news is our housing market has corrected, businesses are moving here (very biz-friendly - remember Silicon Valley?) and despite a few of our wack-job politicians, AZ is on the upswing as one of the best places in America to live. No bankrupt cities (seriously, none), beautiful freeways, minimal traffic, a fully-functional (and LEGITIMATE) emissions regulation system... The sunshine is great, the solar industry is booming here, the illegals have gone west (and east), and hey - if we need to take a dip in the ocean, it's only 6 hours away.

Back on topic, it's silly. I used to manage a state fleet. I KNOW what happens when politicians want to APPEAR like they care. It's expensive, and now is not the time for it. Dispute that if you'd like, but I'm pretty sure the numbers present an insurmountable argument.

You don't have to like it, Steve - It's simply my opinion... Besides, YOU didn't decide to go out and buy a bunch of overpriced vehicles just for the sake of looking progressive, didja?

Of course AZ is doing just fine. It still depends on other states to finance its operation. Saying you're not in the top 15 money drainers doesn't mean anything. You still receive more per capita than you contribute. Your statement is like a bank robber saying he's a great person now because he doesn't steal as much as he used to.

Expenditure on Medicare? Too bad. You encourage the elderly to retire to AZ; the Medicare comes with it. And obviously the entitlement mentality that is coming with them. Supposedly "fiscally responsible" states all want to cut entitlement programs but what are you going to do when all of those people have their Medicare cut because California isn't paying them any more? Enjoy the drain on your state coffers as you either provide the services at local expense or clean up the mess if you don't.

Those "crap" freeways? Just how many miles of the 11,995 miles of California freeways have you driven lately? Or are you just basing your observation on the most heavily traveled sections of the freeways in the metropolitan areas that have more population concentrated in them than your entire state? Wear and tear on the roads in LA, San Diego, and the San Francisco-San Jose corridor is a heck of a lot higher than what Arizona is generally dealing with. That said, I do agree that a lot of transportation funding was not used properly over the years here and I will commend Arizona for investing in highways in the Phoenix area. I don't know what it's like now but a few years ago the Phoenix to Tuscon drive was a real mess when it came to road quality on the 10.

As for the California electric car fleet, the initial delivery is only 10 cars. Hardly a huge drain on the economic well-being of the state. The governor's stated goal is to replace cars as they need to be replaced with electric ones. If such a program is not sustainable the next governor will simply go in a different direction.

srellim234 wrote:Of course AZ is doing just fine. It still depends on other states to finance its operation.

Is CA #1? If not, then it still depends on other states to finance its operation.

srellim234 wrote:words

CA is more than welcome to move to the other end of the chart. Then again, it'll be there before long. Besides, the Feds can only "give" what POTUS and Congress allows, so perhaps a change in the ol' voting strategy is in order.

You also neglect to consider that states must meet certain benchmarks and performance measures to receive Fed funds. Could it be that some of the so called "mooches" have simply outperformed those who got less? Might be worth a look.

For example, we got a crap-ton of $ for freeway expansion and infrastructure improvements under Obama's stimulus program. However, we had to achieve certain performance measures that, if I remember correctly, required sacrifices in other areas. It's paid off nicely, and well worth the delayed gratification. That's a "red state" concept, btw.

srellim234 wrote:Those "crap" freeways? Just how many miles of the 11,995 miles of California freeways have you driven lately?

10-15%. Is that not a sufficient "sample size"? Hope so - I don't need the unnecessary wear and tear.

srellim234 wrote:As for the California electric car fleet, the initial delivery is only 10 cars. Hardly a huge drain on the economic well-being of the state.

I don't disagree, but you know what they say about the journey of a thousand miles...

srellim234 wrote:The governor's stated goal is to replace cars as they need to be replaced with electric ones. If such a program is not sustainable the next governor will simply go in a different direction.

That's governing by the seat of your pants. There's got to be someone who could have done some viability studies, it's a big state. I find it hard to believe an economist would have blessed the program from a purely financial standpoint.

srellim234 wrote: Those "crap" freeways? Just how many miles of the 11,995 miles of California freeways have you driven lately?

Um, almost all of it? I've been everywhere from San Francisco to San Diego, and all the rural areas in between. The only decent roads I found were in the mountains, and that's because they were just repaved. They were in s*** condition last year though. Same goes with the 101 near SLO. It was in terrible condition before they repaved it.

They suck. The roads f*** blow out there. There's no arguing that. State, city, County, doesn't matter. Your state couldn't build a road to save its damned life. Come to TN and drive, and as soon as you cross back into CA you'll hate every single one of your roads. Hell, Arizona does a hell of a lot better of a job, and they even deal with snow. You guys don't. There's no excuse for the roads to be in such abysmal conditions.

No joke, every time I drove in California, I felt like there was something wrong with my tires and/or suspension, just from how crap the roads are. Concrete? Really? Who thought that was a good idea for EVERY SINGLE ROAD IN CALIFORNIA? And the tar stripes they put down to try and hide the cracks? Those are fun in the middle of a turn in the summer on a motorcycle. I nearly ate it twice because of that crap. Don't act like the roads are even halfway decent in CA. They're downright miserable.

Yes, I hate California's roads so much that I went on a 3 paragraph rant about them.

Edited for syntax.

I got airborne on the 405. At the speed limit. True story.

That entire highway needs to be pulverized into gravel, carried off in dump trucks, and remade with asphalt.

My favorite? The 10, Indio to Beaumont. It's got frost heaves... in an arid desert. WTF. If you have the proper-length wheelbase, it sets up a really nauseating rhythmic motion (conveniently right around the posted speed limit) that feels like one of those spring-loaded horses on a kid's playground.

Speaking of asphalt, we're using reclaimed rubber for our freeways. Seems like CA, being all "progressive", would be using something a little more environmentally conscious than concrete.

It's true, California has terribly bumpy freeways and STREETS. But hey, CA has hotter women so we don't mind; you can keep your nice roads and we'll keep your hot women who use said roads to come to our beaches and oceanfront condos, I think we can live with the trade-off.

Noooope, I'll take a southern belle any day over a high maintenance California woman who oversteps her beauty-to-neediness ratio.

CA's full of 30-footers. Silicone parts are made for toys.

That you have to qualify or meet certain benchmarks in order to depend on using tax money from other states to finance your situation in Arizona means little. In fact, isn't a little hypocritical to claim you're a conservative state , all the while deliberately trying to increase the amount of federal taxpayer money you can get your hands on? Handle your affairs within your borders; we'll handle ours. Be a little more gracious to those who are paying your way.

While California ranks worst, Arizona certainly cannot hang it's hat on how well it is run when it ranked behind 46 other states as the best run state in the annual rankings by 24/7wallsteet.com.

http://247wallst.com/2012/11/27/the-bes ... of-all-50/

srellim234 wrote:That you have to qualify or meet certain benchmarks in order to depend on using tax money from other states to finance your situation in Arizona means little.

Really? Then maybe your politicians should change the criteria. Do you give your boss money back if you take an extra 10 minutes in the can one day? Sounds like you've got a problem with someone taking what's offered (and legitimately accepted)... In fact, it sounds a lot like the Socialist hue and cry of "Boo hoo hoo, he makes too much money!"

srellim234 wrote:In fact, isn't a little hypocritical to claim you're a conservative state,

I claim no such thing. I don't speak for an entire state - that would be ludicrous.

srellim234 wrote:all the while deliberately trying to increase the amount of federal taxpayer money you can get your hands on?

Uh, have you ever been a Governor? That's their role, dude. Don't act like The Republik of Kalifornia doesn't do it.

srellim234 wrote:Handle your affairs within your borders; we'll handle ours.

<snicker> Tell your a$$ POTUS to LET us "handle our own". Last I checked, the Feds have this nasty habit of sticking their noses in states' business... Or have you forgotten the immigration debate?

srellim234 wrote:Be a little more gracious to those who are paying your way.

CA is paying Arizona's way? Do you have the faintest idea of how the federal economy works? No, I won't "bow down" to CA or its sheisty political leanings. AZ has no need to "appreciate" CA unless you want us to thank you for welcoming our illegal immigrants... I'm sure we can arrange to send you guys a box of donuts or a Starbucks gift card for your efforts there.

srellim234 wrote:While California ranks worst

Say no more. Or, to quote a wise, but potentially confused, man: "Handle your affairs."

What I have a serious problem with is the hypocrites who rail against an entitlement mentality as it applies to others but see no problem whatsoever with they themselves feeling they are entitled to other states' taxpayers subsidizing them. Obviously the federal government does not have the money to continue "business as usual" yet the majority of states are still operating as if it can. Especially those who cry about the federal deficit and spending but can't take care of their own business without more and more fed money to balance their books.

California has a major problem electing ineffective congressional delegations and state leaders but even if they did they would not be able to change what is happening in Washington. States like yours that insist they are "entitled" to the money of others simply because they "qualify" for it outnumber them with their votes.

I see you are still up to your antics of deflecting or ignoring every deficiency in Arizona, choosing instead to maintain that there is absolutely nothing wrong in your state. Choosing to criticize everyone else, instead.

Keeping your head in the sand is going to get you bit in the butt, AZ.

srellim234 wrote:Obviously the federal government does not have the money to continue "business as usual" yet the majority of states are still operating as if it can. Especially those who cry about the federal deficit and spending but can't take care of their own business without more and more fed money to balance their books.

As I said before, show me a Governor who says, "Ah, no thanks, give it to another state - We're good to go."  If you think that happens in sunny CA, you're sadly mistaken.

Seriously, how did you not get that in my last response?  I see no "deflection" - I'm responding point-by-point, you're choosing to ignore it and prattle on about vague generalities.

Interestingly, this:

Arizona is ending its budget year with a surplus three times larger than anticipated. Preliminary figures released Monday by the Joint Legislative Budget Committee show the state collected slightly more than $9 billion in the fiscal year that ended June 30, or $379 million more than anticipated. Earlier projections estimated $122 million.

But the financial picture is also brighter on the spending end of the equation - Total spending for the year is close to $8.66 billion, or $112 million less than what lawmakers had anticipated. 

One reason is fewer people than anticipated are participating in the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System. The number of childless adults still enrolled, in particular, is smaller after the state froze enrollment at the end of 2010.  Legislative budget staffers also said the number of students enrolled in public schools was lower than anticipated, and there was a decline in the number of inmates in state prisons.

Since you're so concerned about taxes, let's talk about taxes:  California has one of the highest state income tax rates in the nation, one of the highest sales tax rates in the nation and the highest gasoline tax rate in the nation.  Wow.  Soak the residents, so you can thump your chest about how little your state takes from the Feds?  That's not sustainable.

And yet, you've got entire COUNTIES going bankrupt.  We've never heard of such a thing over here... Just sayin'.  :)

srellim234 wrote:States like yours that insist they are "entitled" to the money of others simply because they "qualify" for it outnumber them with their votes.

Don't like it?  Talk to Washington.  This is like whining about someone else's taxes being lower than yours because they took all the deductions they're entitled to.  It's absurd and senseless.  

And how the heck AZ "outnumbers" anyone with votes is beyond me - We're not densely populated.  You're making things up because you don't like the Federal allocation of budget dollars.

"Deflection" my arse - Your position simply isn't borne out by facts, Steve.  

Speaking of deflection, I addressed your concerns in my last response... Arizona has always been at the forefront of the states' rights initiatives.  

Oh, and this:  

In the Phoenix metropolitan area, the median price of single-family homes hit $150,000 in August, up 33.7 percent from a year earlier, according to a report by Arizona State University’s W.P. Carey School of Business. Meanwhile, sales of new homes were up 55 percent and resales that didn’t involve investor flips, short sales or foreclosures were up 81 percent from August 2011, the report said.

Three Arizona businesses were named in the Top 50 on the "Great Place to Work" rankings: The Best Small & Medium Workplaces presented by Entrepreneur Magazine.

A ranking of #22 in "Best States for Business" isn't great, but it's not terrible, considering our population centers are distant and concentrated: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100013701

Improvement here as well:  Arizona high schools have increased their graduation rate by 24 percentage points in the last decade, the biggest increase in the country, according to a national report released Friday.

While the state has improved, it still ranks only in the middle of the pack nationally, according to the report from Education Week and the Editorial Projects in Education Research Center. It said Arizona graduated 72 percent of its high school students in 2009, putting the state "a hair below" the national average for the year... and still above the graduation rate for California.

California ranks 48th in the nation in education.  The number of children living in poverty in the state of California has increased by a staggering 30 percent since 2007. In addition, 60 percent of all students attending California public schools now qualify for free or reduced-price school lunches (think that's not Federal money?)

If CA is so wonderful, why are its residents fleeing like rats from a sinking ship?  Since the year 2000 more than 1.6 million people have moved away from the state of California, and AZ is one of the top destinations.  Whoops.

I could add more, but this article is damning enough... http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... california

srellim234 wrote:Keeping your head in the sand is going to get you bit in the butt, AZ.

No Steve, there's sand needed.  The view here is gorgeous.  Keep your money (and your crappy air), we're going to be just fine.  :)

My main frustration is due to other things, but it is also directed at YOU, AZ. I've been away from the forum for a while tending to personal issues but when I returned the other day it was exactly the same as when I left. You criticizing California at every opportunity both specifically and in general. Putting up Arizona as utopia, with zero flaws other than those inflicted by people outside of Arizona. In that respect you are absolutely wrong.

Then after criticizing California in general (read your thread title) you don't represent Arizona in general? Well, neither do I represent the general population of California.

You refer to "my ***** president." Yes, he is. I didn't vote for him. I don't support many of his policies. But I'm an American and yes, he is my President. He's yours, too, whether you like it or not.

You say you don't want to be categorized as a conservative but there is very little evidence if any in these threads that indicate you are anything BUT a conservative.

As for Arizona outvoting California in Congress, you know that is not the case. States like Arizona that take more from the federal government than they send, however, outnumber those who don't. As a voting bloc they do outnumber the money "suppliers" with their votes.

You finished your last post by telling us to keep our money. I'm not a dictator and don't have any more control over that than you do.

If you don't like California, stay the hell out. If Arizona is perfect, stay home, stay the hell out of our wallets, make ends meet and balance your own damn books internally. Tell Washington you don't need it and to apply the money to the deficit instead.

I can see I came back here before I should have if at all.