I know, tire questions can be boring but...

[TexasMadrone]

I've been following the tire threads and general comments for some time regarding replacement tires for '03 M45's. My '03 has 35K on the original Michelin MXMXM4 235/45/18 tires. I have pretty well decided on the all season 245/45/18 Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position 100XL-B Z rated tires as my replacements of choice.

Tire brands, like cars, can have loyal followers. Example: I generally like Michelins but I'm reading some comments that the all season Michelins have not performed as well as other tires. Mine have done well on wear and wet as I watch tire pressure and rotation/balancing closely. What I would appreciate would be pro and con comments from all and particularly any RE960AS users. I thought about the BF Goodrich G-Force super sport A/S but think it might be a little noisy.

Thanks guys

[szh]

My '03 has 35K on the original Michelin MXMXM4 235/45/18 tires.

You got quite a bit of miles out of them! But, they have definitely aged past the point of safety, I would say, particularly in the Houston climate!

I have pretty well decided on the all season 245/45/18 Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position 100XL-B Z rated tires as my replacements of choice.

They are likely to be very good tires. Certainly much better than the MXM4. Tire Rack buyers seem to like them a lot too.

I have used Bridgestone tires in the past (their RE940) and was reasonably happy with their performance. However, one tire also had a catastrophic failure on an inside edge that bothered me a lot. So I have tended to stay away from the brand, but that is not reasonable of me, really, since I may have left changing them out too long perhaps.

The question that I have is: why do you want All Season tires? In your part of the world, it never snows or gets cold enough to warrant them. And, some high performance Summer tires do a lot better in rain (if you get much of that in Houston) than all seasons. In general, all season tires are a compromise - they are neither excellent in summer and rain like Summer tires, nor excellent in snow like true snow tires.

So, I think the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 and Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 are likely to be much better performers - particularly in Houston weather - than the 960AS. However, they will probably only give you about 20k to 22k miles of longevity (a guess in the case of the Sport PS2) - I do not know the wear rating on the 960AS.

Tire brands, like cars, can have loyal followers. Example: I generally like Michelins but I'm reading some comments that the all season Michelins have not performed as well as other tires.

I am currently using Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on my 2003 M45. Very good tires, but simply not in the same league as the Eagle F1 GS-D3 that I used before these. The Sport A/S is also not as good as the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 according to some people - I bought them at the last minute because I needed to be in light snow country in April this year.

So, I plan to go back to summer tires the next time, but it may be a while, since these Pilot Sport A/S tires appear to be long-lived.

Mine have done well on wear and wet as I watch tire pressure and rotation/balancing closely.

Good!

Z

[stroked347]

The bridgestones will definitely be a nice tire. A friend of mine currently has those on his S2000 and has had nothing but good things to say.

But, as szhosain says, the all season won't give you the performance of summer tires. I just put my third set of tires on the M (71,000 miles) and went with the Eagle GS-D3 (mostly because of the recommendations on this board). They're not fully broken in yet, but the car definitely rides better than it ever has and they provide great grip. Obviously the summer tires don't do anything in the snow, but I manage to get through the several days of snow we experience each year (northern virginia) just fine.

I previously had the OEM Michelins, and went with the Dunlop Sport Maxx for my second set (got about 25k out of those). The Dunlop's were also a great tire but did get noisy after a while.

Best of luck with whatever tire you choose!

[TexasMadrone]

Agree that all season tires tend to be a compromise and the 960as probably are as well. However, reading both Discount Tire and TireTracks reader responses place them very close to the performance of the F1-GS-D3 and the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 summer tires but with great tire mileage life at much much lower cost. Plus, somewhere in an ad or review, I thought I read that the 960as also has a rim protector bead to reduce wheel rash.

You are right that Houston sees very little snow(happens rarely) but our rains can be monsoon like! The summer tires, per the reviews, have the edge but lose it at half the life of the 960as(so they say!?).

Interesting that stroked347 found the GS-D3's worked for him in Northern Virginia's light snow.

I guess the substantial $$ difference plus having only somewhat lesser dry/wet but longer mileage has been swaying my thinking.

Maybe someone will also post that's using them. The "school's still out" on my thinking!

[TexasMadrone]

Thanks for the post!

Did your friend with the S2000 also live in No. VA, and did he experience the snow with his 960as tires?

I somehow have this propensity toward trying to use one thing to cover all situations knowing that a compromise has to be considered! Maybe this is the wrong time to take that approach!!?

Any thoughts on the all season BF Goodrich G-force super sport a/s aside from a compromise to a summer tire?

[SteveTheTech]

If your not going to track the car or drive abnormally do sport tires really matter?I know in the semi-urban area I live in we spend most of our time moving slowly in traffic or barely above the speed limit on an interstate teeming with cops eager to bother you. In most cases people over think the driving they do and buy tires that sacrifice driving comfort and all weather dependability for the ability to hit a corner at eighty.

[szh]

If your not going to track the car or drive abnormally do sport tires really matter?I know in the semi-urban area I live in we spend most of our time moving slowly in traffic or barely above the speed limit on an interstate teeming with cops eager to bother you. In most cases people over think the driving they do and buy tires that sacrifice driving comfort and all weather dependability for the ability to hit a corner at eighty.

The difference is that the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 is also a very well-made tire in general. It has a load index of 100 (needed for our heavy cars). Etc.

But, the most important reason I like it, is that it has outstanding wet weather driving and braking characteristics. I hate driving in the rain (white knuckle time for me) and these tires make me far less stressed about that road condition ... even in low-speed stop-and-go traffic.

Z

[M45Caliber]

I've been driving on a set of Yokohama AVID W4S - size 245-45-18's, for about 8 thousand miles. Rotated once; they still look new. Dry grip is nothing short of amazing, and we've had some decent rains this summer (arizona monsoons) and the grip in the rain has also been exemplary. The tire rack lists them as an "ultra high performance all-season tire" -- whatever that means. BTW -- the 245's fit perfectly and the speedo is dead nuts accurate.

I'm usually a Michelin guy, but I would buy another set of these in a heartbeat. They also have decent longevity, per their tread wear ratings. This is a sports sedan, not a race car, so I think a high performance all season tire is a great compromise. I might reconsider if looking for tires on a Z or G37 coupe, but for a big sedan, these tires are perfect.

Our '08 EX35 has all season Michelins, and they are not as good in the rain.

Interesting comment by someone earlier on Bridgestones. I also has an all season bridgestone (on a Honda) develop a belt separation, which we caught during a rotation (bulge in the inner sidewall, down by the tread). So I too have been gun shy on buying another set.

Unless your running SCCA slalom events, a high performance all season should be fine.

[SteveTheTech]

That sounds like a good choice I know the M can get a bit squirrily in any rain or snow the Michellins that come on them have a tendency to feel pretty unstable in any type of wetness. I know the F1s have been used on vettes and other V8 RWD cars that have traction issues. I have always been a fan of Goodyear since I started working for them a long time ago, I used to have the RSAs on two of my old cars and my Acura now has the Triple Treads on it and it performs great.

[szh]

Interesting comment by someone earlier on Bridgestones. I also has an all season bridgestone (on a Honda) develop a belt separation, which we caught during a rotation (bulge in the inner sidewall, down by the tread). So I too have been gun shy on buying another set.

Good reason for concern. Typically, the reasons for belt damage (internal ... and not always visible ), is because of poor manufacturing or using too low a load index tire. Scary.

Always check your tires as best as possible (look for bubbles, tread missing, cracks, etc.) when you rotate! Good tire places will do this for you.

Z

[maxnix]

Agree that all season tires tend to be a compromise and the 960as probably are as well. However, reading both Discount Tire and TireTracks reader responses place them very close to the performance of the F1-GS-D3 and the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 summer tires but with great tire mileage life at much much lower cost. Plus, somewhere in an ad or review, I thought I read that the 960as also has a rim protector bead to reduce wheel rash.

In Houston, you need summer tires unless you go north in the winter. If you read the tests (not owner surveys) carefully, you will see that summer tires tend to performe better all around than their "all season" equivalents.

Remember, "All Season" is a marketing euphemism for compromised summer tire and not very good snow tire. Kind of like "Rim Protector."

The only way to get higher mileage in the same tire is to use a harder rubber compound. These harder compounds will have less grip and cornering and braking performance will decrease, especially when it is wet.

It may not be worth it to you to buy a tire that stops 10 ft. shorter from 80 mph in the wet, but what is it worth to you to stay out of someones trunk?

Be sure to read the excellent tire sticky in Infiniti General.

[szh]

Agree that all season tires tend to be a compromise and the 960as probably are as well. However, reading both Discount Tire and TireTracks reader responses place them very close to the performance of the F1-GS-D3 and the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 summer tires but with great tire mileage life at much much lower cost.

Maxnix reminded me of something I had meant to comment on too. The reader surveys are a good first step, but the tests that Tire Rack conducts are a far better gauge of performance and how well a tire is designed etc. In particular, the wet weather performance of the Eagle and Sport PS2 are higher than the 960AS ... in fact, better than all the All Season tires.

In Houston, the ability for a tire to to handle light snow is simply not needed. And, yes, the 960AS can be used in light snow, but the Eagle and Sport PS2 cannot) - they turn rock hard in cold weather and will slide easily.

Z

[TexasMadrone]

Thanks for the input. I agree on the summer tires having the benefit over all season. The only reason I was thinking in the direction of all season is due to a couple of trips to Virginia in the winter are always in the plans. Plus, what I've been reading on the site threads, they are a definite improvement over the Michelin MX MXM4's " I'm to replace!

I have looked at both the reader responses and test comparisons on both Discount Tires and Tireracks sites for the:Goodyear F1-GS-D3Michelin Pilot Sport PS2BF Goodrich G-Force Super Sport A/SBridgestone Potenza Re960as Pole Position

Interesting to see that all have good as well as only fair comments or tests. A few readers don't like any of them!! Some say road noise is high on a particular tire and others say low noise for the same tire. All seem to think Wet/Dry is pretty good across the board. That's why I appreciate this Nico site as actual use on the specific auto is what counts from posters that I think are truly interested in the questions.

M45Caliber brought up the Yokohama Avid W4S with I had not looked into. Thanks for the comment. When looking them up I also looked at the S.4. Also, both look like good tires but as Szhosain indicates, the load index(96) is not as high as the others listed above. 96 is what the original Michelins have so I would think the Yokos are at least as good, and in other areas, far superior.

I guess where I am now is to determine if the all season is necessary for the couple of times a year I go to Virginia in the winter.

I welcome any additional thoughts as I probably will get tires next week.

[TexasMadrone]

Thanks to you and M45Caliber for pointing out the Bridgestone problems in earlier threads. Certainly is something to check out if going that way. Hopefully the tire shop I'll use will talk straight knowing that I'm buying something from them either way. I won't hold my breath though!

[M45Caliber]

I also forgot to mention that the Yoko's are extremely quiet -- usually tires can get a little noisy once a few thousand miles are on them. These have over 8K so far and are as quiet as a church mouse. That's also a big point for me as I like to listen to music and/or talk on my cell/speaker phone a lot while driving -- and before you all jump me for this, I stay out of the fast lane and keep my eyes on the road/mirrors... that's why I have a bluetooth speakerphone that clips to my sun visor (Motorola makes a decent one).

One other point to make -- these tires were on the car when I bought it. The previous owner paid Cerritos Infiniti $1,700 for these tires (un-effing-believable...) so as such I had no warranty as I did not purchase them.

A month into ownership and I pick up a nail in the edge of the tread. This can not be fixed. Discount tire has a match in stock, and it's about $175. I ask if Yokohama might offer some "good-will" as these are almost new tires. My Discount guy (manager) calls Yoko in Cali, and they step up to the plate - no warranty for nails - just defects, etc. But in spite of that they offered me 65% discount OFF the new tire. Just like that. No arguing. Now that's a company that knows what customer service means.

After that nail experience, and because all 4 tires still had 10/thousanths or more of tread, Discount sold me a Road Hazard warranty on all four for about $80 (at my request). But Yokohama took care of me on the unwarranted tire. A great tire from a company with Great customer service. One of the reasons I will definately consider Yoko's again for ANY of my cars.

Good luck with your selection - let us know what you decide.

[szh]

Plus, what I've been reading on the site threads, they are a definite improvement over the Michelin MX MXM4's " I'm to replace!

That I would agree with - based on what I have read! The Michelin MXM4 is a decent to good tire (had them on my wife's Acura once). No more than that.

I am currently using the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on my M45 and suspect it is similar to the 960AS overall (but do not know for sure though).

And, BTW, in case you think I am hooked on Goodyear (because I like their Eagle F1 GS-D3 ), nope!!! please take a look at my posts on their Eagle RSA - that is a so-so tire ... overpriced and underperforming.

Z

[stroked347]

I actually wasn't too clear when i posted earlier, but to clarify, i've used the Dunlop Sport Maxx's in light snow...haven't experienced snow w/ the GS D3's yet. While it certainly wasn't easy or fun to drive w/ the dunlops, i managed to get to work and back in a relatively safe manner.

I'll take poor grip in snow as a compromise for the great performance in dry/rainy weather. If northern virginia drivers are bad on a dry day, stop and go traffic gets downright ugly when it starts raining so I take any advantage I can get when it comes to handling.

My friend only recently purchased his S2000 and has yet to experience a winter w/ it so no info to pass on there.

Good luck w/ tires you go with!