i have an idea for a petition...lemme know what you guys think

[dj_lennon_franz]

ok...im sure a few of you have heard rumours floating around on the net that there is a new silvia being developed and that the car is being called the "azeal"...this is not true...the azeal is nissans new AMERICAN designed and built FWD entry level sports car...i for one am now completely sickenend with what nissan is presenting...and i have this REALLY bad gut feeling that we will never see the S chassis again in this country (nissan of japan has already confirmed they are going to be producing a new S chassis)...and IF we see one again...it will be released under the infiniti line where MANY of us wont be able to afford one till we are in our mid 30s or so...so any who i wanted to start a petition to send to nissan to bring out a real to its roots...god honest...NEW SILVIA THAT IS RWD AND TURBO!!!! i dont know how much of a difference it will make but if anyone on here thinks its a good idea...lemme know in this topic and i will get one started...because i would REALLY like to see a new AFFORDABLE RWD TURBO SPORTS CAR NAMED A SILVIA!!!!! (gettin bored with SR and CA swaps...we need a new kind of RWD 4 banger swap to play with hehehehe)the ONLY good thing i will say about the azeal is that its a QR25det (yes it IS turbo)...but the FWD thing just kills it all together

So yah...have at it guys

[hybrid_flyer]

well it would be nice, but it would be pretty hard for apetition to change an automotive maker's idea

[MAXIMUS Nismo]

I think it is worth a shot. I even think there was one alreay on the net.

anyway, if we truly love this car that much, we will get behind this venture if there is even a small glimmer of hope that it may come true. Think ot it, all of NICO, all ofZIlVIA and every single nissan/240 enthusiast site in the worl. Europe, australia, the Caribbean, the middle east. If we make a concentrated effort, we may get nissans ear.

It happened for the WRX, then mitsubishi got the idea, and those two are going at it over here now. I think we can do it if we try. And even if we fail, maybe Motorex or someone else will start impirting S15s. Whole uncrushed and all that jazz..

If you beleive it, you can achive it.....................I beleive, do you?

[9095240SXDUCK]

I be the First one to sign it, if you can come up with one!

I was thinking about it the other day while I was driveing.

3 out of the 4 car I own. Its 10-15 years old. its time for a new S!!!

[98s14inaz]

Well do us a favor and make sure you have your facts straight. The last douche that tried the petition thing plead to "Mr nissan" and some other stupid inaccurate things that made us look like fanboy ricers. Make a good one that makes us look like we know what we are talking about and I will sign it.

[1991S13]

I'm 100% with you guys too. Like Maximus said, what have we got to lose? When I heard the Azeal was going to be FWD, I was like man, I guess I'm just gonna be driving a car between the years of 89-98 for a loooong time. Atleast this would give us a little bit of hope.

[Arrow]

If someone can make a formal, correct, and informational petition focusing on what we as 240/Nissan enthusiasts would want to see and how their proposed 'azeal' won't come close, we might be able to get their attention... but it has to be respectful and formal. One thing that might even help is to express that we'd even be willing to wait longer for it to be produced as long as it is along the same lines as our beloved S-chassis cars.... So, if after reading a petition if it is intelligent and formal, my anme will be added as well.

[MAXIMUS Nismo]

ok, so lets all put one together in this thread, tell everyone else about this thread, come up with an official "draft" based on our ideas, pass it on to the mods, who can hopefully pass it on to mr NICO (the dude wiht the R33 who started NICO) and see where we go from here.

I'll go write something tomorrow and post it here.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

I wonder if any "artist conceptions" or actual engineering drawings would add to the "convincing" of Nissan. I am an artist and I am student of Mechanical Eng. If so let me know with some Ideas.

[dj_lennon_franz]

lets keep this thread going guys...if someone would post this on ZILVIA.net and link it to this page i would appreciate it...lets keep it clean...id like to have this page as a tool to show nissan...if anyone can direct me to whom i should contact at nissan of america hit me up and i will put together a FORMAL petition for everyone on here to sign (i can just put a site up for it)

[DrifterXRPS13]

i agree with everyones post here, i'm all for this petition, let's get an s16 here...let's get this petition going!

[D1SR240]

get it started, i'll sign it

[accel junky]

Lets get it on... I'll sign.

[vvaffle]

We could try somehow contacting Carlos Ghosn. I think he is the new head of Nissan of North America. Though, from what I'v read about him, he's very much a bussiness man and not so much of a car guy. Therefore we would need to show that there is a strong demand for an S16 for him to even consider it. I would assume that if they were going to make the car they would want about 20,000 (at least) in annual sales. We would need somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 signatures to show that there is support for the car. Even then though, just because somebody's name is on a petition doesn't mean that they will buy the car.

Quoted from an Autoweek article, "He [speaking of Ghosn] says repeatedly he is not interested in gaining market share, but wants profit. No car will be built that is not profitable; a car can only be profitable if it sells well; if it sells well, it will gain share."

Therefore, an S16 will not be made in the US unless it's profitable. This guy is pretty much responsible for Nissan latest revival so he will not do anything that could possibly be a waste of money. I'm tired of typing so with all that said, I think we should still try and get an S16. As previously stated, there is nothing to lose, we just have to make sure we do it right.

[Anand]

sorry guys... this will never work....

been done many times before.

[drifts14x]

Hey, a formal petition might work, there are like 10k people on this forum alone, I would buy a new S- Chassis Turbo if it had anything close to the handling and perfomance that my S13 has, maybe like a rehashed S15, I'd be incredibly happy, I'd buy 2, then spend 90 hrs a week working to pay for them, and the other maybe 10 hours driving them, Shift_Dedication

[ckamc]

in all honesty I wouldnt mind driving a non turbo s16 knowing that the s16 is japan is sure to have a lot of support thus making a grand amount of aftermarket parts like there is for the SR

[dfw240_EE]

The biggest problem for the Enthusiast is that there aren't enough of us. It is said that all drivers (especially male ones) think they are better drivers than everyone else, and of course they are wrong. However, I think just due to the heightened "seat time" enthusiasts are genuinely better drivers than the general populace.

The problem is that the general populace is an insanely more lucrative market to sell to. They for the large part don't want an "enthusiast" car, they want a cushy cute car with all sorts of pointless bells and whistles that they think ('think' being the key word) is quick. Or if you live in the Dallas area like me, they want to drive a tank. I remember reading once that the common driver gets a new car every 7 years. With so many such drivers getting new cars so regularly, we get drowned out.

With the high number of people looking for "just a car" and the relatively low number of people looking for "the perfect car", are you surrised that it is near impossible for a company to sell a true sports car under $20k? The closest we will ever get these days are going to be FWD sports models of econocars. Which auto industry history has shown that making a sports version of a base level car is a great way to make a cheap sports car. With no economy car today sporting RWD, and only one sporting AWD (Impreza), I do not think we will ever see such a cheap RWD car again.

If you look at all the vehicles that can be called enthusiast's cars lately, they are all a touch pricey. (Porsches, 350Z, S2000, etc) Clearly they are targeting a slightly older market. So here we are, the young enthusiasts, stuck buying used sports cars. The same place young enthusiasts have been for decades.

And when I finally make it big, if Nissan does not have any RWD Four Cylinder car (I am a touch of a tree-hugger, I confess), then I will probably be buying a Honda S2000 or whatever such RWD Four Cylinder car is produced at the time. I will merely let my dollars voice my discontent with the Nissan model lineup.

[PantherRacer]

I'd sign it just so you guys can have it man, I'd be getting a japanese S16 when I have the ca$h but seriously, my boys them who don't like rhd like that (you guys got em used ) they'd love a new 240sx. how about y'all lobby to get the S15 in america? guess it'd be cheaper wouldn't it? and why skip a generation? get the S15 for a year or 2 then they can make the S16

[Juujai]

you knowhow car designers have been designing todays cars. look at them theyre all space ships. celica, Z, and look at the subaru impreza /mitsubishi lancer theyre really big. all cars are built bigger now. i guess it fits out big behinds better. its all about comfort i dunno man. look at the way honda civics used to look back in about 92-95 then look at the 96-2000 and thenewer ones. they all got bigger and yeah. i have a feeling even if they design a new s16 240sx or whatever they wanna call it. itll be all electronically controlled, parts are gonna be insanely expensive,

so with that being said if you guys seriously have about 20k on u guys and would buy a new s16 why not get a fob s15 in really pristine condition. if you look around there have been some around for sale. all you really need is your US vins, plates etc. i mean if they catch us with our SRs, 15 conversions etc what difference is that? none of that is legal anyway lol. i guess if you wanna be safer go custom fabricate a lhd dash haha

but ill sign. it doesnt hurt me and if its nice it benefits all of you guys

i dont think id ever get a new car. the payments are just no fun. its always nice tohave a couple hundred bucks extra every month haha. i duno about buying a brand new s2000. its just a typical car to me. its pretty nice though but id rather get a 5-10k paint job lol for the 240 make it look so friggin new with the nicest stuff in the car no one would know its a 1980s-90s generation car haha. then theres always the supra could doa 5-10k paint job on that and restore everything really nice, add a navi, make it feel all good too. im not too interested in new cars.
Modified by Juujai at 5:46 PM 1/21/2005

[dj_lennon_franz]

*quick note* no one buys S15s here because they arent exactly the easiet car to register...ive never heard of ne one LEGALLY registering one in the states...all the S15s i see are pure track cars with NO plates

motorEX was talking about importing S15s to america...and they would prolly run about 50-60 grand...the only really kewl thing about this would be the fact that it would make the SR20det SMOG LEGAL in the states

getting back to the subject at hand though...the new president of nissan honestly sounds like a total dumb ***...i mean seriously...now i understand why the nissans in this country are in the state theyre in...it always has seemed like nissan was ALWAYS proud of its sports cars everywhere else except HERE...but with the introduction of this new president...he seems like nothing more than a money grubbing *** who drives a 7 series BMW and goes to starbux (no offense to anyone on here if thats what u do...but u get my point) i know the car business is a corporation but they forget sometimes certain places in the market...namely the little guys like US who buy THEIR CARS!!!

[Juujai]

the matter of being legal really doesnt matter when we have non legal engines in the first place. all u gotta do is just take ur existing 240sx plates or buy a salvaged 240 with the same color as the s15 ur buying and ur set. if ur really scared you could even take off the sr20det engraving in the motor and put ka24 lol. i swear thats how everyone does it here. we have s15s a few on the streets i see. a cop pulls u over for lets say speeding in ur s15 right. all u gotta do is show the cop ur what 1991 240sx papers lol. what can they do haha. i mean there are people with gtr33 front/rear converted s14s. cant they just basically import a 33 and slap on their 240sx vins? ive seen it done. and when they smog they jsut bring their bone stock car to get it smogged. switcharoo back and forth.

and anyway if motorex was to legalize it theyll probably want atleast 10-15k. the method i mentioned would basically be free-very cheap you could always find those under 1000 dollar 240s on recycler.

[vvaffle]

I could see the S16 being in the same general class as a Civic Si or RSX type S. Does it cost more to make a RWD car compared to a FWD? Right now though, RWD cars would not sell as well as FWD because for years the general public has gotten it beat into their head that FWD is safer. Now that even some of the bigger American cars are starting to be RWD maybe there will be a case for an S16, not right now though. What I am trying to say is we will most likely get only one chance at a good petition. If that doesn't work they will most likely just diregard the next one. That why we have to make sure the one time we do it counts. So that means that we have to get thousands of people to agree on a specific type of car. I think that the car should come with very few things standard, maybe a CD player. Other things like A/C, Leather, Automatic etc. should be options. Now this would make the base price pretty low but with all the options it would probably cost far more than an RSX type S with the same stuff. Also, many people might disagree with me on what should be included in the base car. A succeseful petition would be hard to do but if anyone wants to give it a shot and modify it based on the feedback from the community I wish you the best of luck.

[MAXIMUS Nismo]

so does anyone have a rough draft as yet? All this speculation and discussion is really good though. I haven't seen NICO members so enthused about a subject in a while.

So far I have

" To Whom it may concern. Dear Sir/Madam We the people........................."

More is coming, I just dont wanna post it all here now.

[SmithSR]

*quick note* no one buys S15s here because they arent exactly the easiet car to register...ive never heard of ne one LEGALLY registering one in the states...all the S15s i see are pure track cars with NO plates

motorEX was talking about importing S15s to america...and they would prolly run about 50-60 grand...the only really kewl thing about this would be the fact that it would make the SR20det SMOG LEGAL in the states

Motorex not doing so well these days...apparently all is not legal that was said to be legal. RB motoring's Sean Morris uses a dealer plate at the Sport Compact Car USCC? Nothing is legit. Legit as in, Legal and Federal as advertised.

S16 would break the bank of the enthusiast who likes the S13 for it's size, handling, ease to work on, and.... Price. No S chassis(with few overpriced dreaming sellers) are going for over $10k. Triple that and you have a -New-Compact-Turbo-"Sports Car"

Z33G35 STIEVO8

That will be the price point, if it were ever made and sold here, which it won't.

$30k may not scare a 30-something with a salary and some disposable income, but the very enthusiasts asking for a new S chassis RWD turbo are the same enthusiasts who will cry foul about the price of such a car.

Back to square 1, when you have a Nissan rwd sports coupe(S16) at the same price and similar performance to a Nissan rwd sports coupe(Z33), and it's slightly more expensive brother(G35).

The car you want costs $30k! Save now!

[Juujai]

i think they want a sub 2900lbs car that with a 4 banger maybe with turbo and some old school styling instead of the new styles. we basically want a nissan se-r thats rwd with s style body. basically sell us a brand new 240sx thats what we want. whether its a 91 or a 95 or a 2001 s15 just give us something brand new. lol SR or not if its cheap we could even pick up a brand new SR.

id only buy it if its sub 25k competiting with maybe the rsx, celica, eclipse i guess, and from the american side the neon, and i dont know about the rest. its like basically dump the whole se-r idea and sell a 240sx. not trying to replace the z or 35

[Veriest1]

I think what is wanted is basically a Miata with some room in it.This is what a Miata is: Cheap, high quality, low horsepower 4 cylinder, "cute," lightwieght, A-arm style front suspension, multi-link rear suspension,tiny interior and trunk, sports car with low insurance.Notice that the Miata meets the general marketing demand of being cute but doesn't have enough room for a kid and some junk during the week. Despite this they still sell really well. If Nissan were to follow Mazdas formula but use a hatchback body and a slightly longer frame they could probably pull it off. Mazda has been doing it for over a decade and there car can't even carry an extra set of tires to the track... or groceries home if you're into that sort of thing. Note: Some miata owners have goofy little trailers to haul tires.The general populace probably responds better to a torquey engine since many people are afraid of approaching redline, like what is necassary with an S2000, for fear of hurting their car. This should cause the car to feel faster than it really is and improve sales.I doubt Nissan can directly challenge the SRT-4 with this type of offering but I don't think they should either. The target here should be the Miata. However I would expect many (and I don't mean to be stereotypical here) women would buy my hypothetical Nissan over the SRT-4 because of, handling charicteristics, the lack of that "annoying" whine, it's cute, low rpm power, and more cargo room.Of course it wouldn't hurt to incorporate the superior FR layout into the marketing scheme.

[Vkoslak]

Hell, why not just revive the Datsun name, and sell classic limited edition older cars with modern safety equipment (and unfortunatly emissions).

If I could go buy an s13 from a nissan affiliated dealer with 0 miles, for under $20k with the sr20det in it, I would. Its not like there would be much research and development. Just sell us the 180sx type-x and silvia k, with just enough modification to get it to pass US standards.

Another approach would be to sell s13 without the turbo, but still have a sr20de in it. That engine gets good gas mileage. Could sell it on an economical, but fun marketing campaign.

Would probably need to build it in the US to get around the import tariffs.

Just an idea.