I got the valve cover off, and looked at the Timing Chain, heres what I found...

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

I pop off the valve cover, thats going to be painted tomorrow.

So I'm looking at the top of the Timing chain, it goes around a wheel, cmoming up and going back down into the front of the engine.

Well upon looking down the opening and following the chain I notice something. The Timing Chain Guide that is on the driver's side is not there, just the stubs that it would mount to. On the passenger side the curved guide is there, shows a bit of wear but nothing serious, jsut a patterned chain-groove...not deep at all from what I can see.

There doesn't appear to be anything I can remove, like these "top timing chain guides" that people are talking about.

I found out that I'm the 3 rd owner of this vehicle, a woman had it before me, who had bought this car from a NIssan lot because she was friends with a lady that traded the car in on another new nissan years ago.

I wonder did the Nissan mechanics rip some stuff out, as they were prepping it to go out on the lot? Any ideas?

Thanks,

lbrowne

EDIT: I should almost take a picture with my digital camera and show you guys....

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

i think these top timing chain guides are on the DOHC, now that I've read some more.

Any SOHC know-it-alls here?

Post by **rc240sx** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

the sohcs only have guides on the side

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

so, is it bad that the long straight one on the driver side is not there? only the curved one on the passenger side is present.

Website · Post by **JNM240** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

Yes that is the first thing that goes. The OE chain guide was made of plastic and deterioated rather quickly (over the course of 10 years is rather quickly in the lifespan of a car). Pick up a timing chain kit from your local parts store and make sure it is the updated kit. My Dynagear kit came with a little note that said it was updated as of 1998 and the guide is plastic with metal backing. The Dynagear kit came with chain, guide, tensioner arm, tensioner, cam sprocket and crank sprocket. All this for $89 from Autozone, not too bad.

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

how much danger am i in if i drive her like that?

she has 100k miles.

Website · Post by **JNM240** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

None until the chain itself finally breaks. Then its catastrophic. With the chain rubbing on the bolts that 'used' to hold the guide on, i can only say its a matter of time. When i pulled my front cover off, i at least had a peice of plastic wrapped around the guide bolts for the chain to rub on. But if its rubbing bare metal on the bolts, i would look pretty hard at getting it replaced. If you have the tools and the know how, its not THAT hard (it is hard, but at least you can do it with the engine in the car). If not, im not sure what a shop would charge to replace it for you. BTW, mine had 191k miles on her when i decided to rebuild my engine, due more to a bad rear main and front main seal (i was leaking oil like the Valdez), and replaced the chain only when i saw the broken guide. I found about 5-8 peices of the guide in my oil pan.

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

hehe it already has its grooves made in the bottom stub.

i checked the chain and its not showing any wear but i think i will look into getting it replaced.

it can't be harder/more time consuming than doing an electric waterpump in my LT1 tarns am. No space at all to work with.

Post by **Queamore** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

Last I checked Mechanics wanted an arm and a leg to do that I would charge probably around 300 at my shop in chicago. But you should be able to get in there yourself and do it. Just make sure before you pull it apart, everything is at piston 1 and centered good, it willl save you alot of time.

Post by **gruntzz** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

i did this on my 95 pickup. as stated easy job just time consuming. i made it worthwhile and installed a performance cam while i was at it. another danger of broken guide is pieces of plastic that could make their way into turning components and also lateral vibration can wear a hole in the front cover where your coolant runs through potentially dumping water into your engine. oh i think in a nissan truck forum i saw a quote for $300-$400 to replace the timing chain.

Post by **240FeVeR** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

You shouldn't be driving that car until you get it fixed.

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

Well I'm shopping for kits now, I wondering if its easiest to remove the front end off the car, or just getting the fan out of there make room enough...possibly the radiator as well.

I'm pretty sure I can tackle this job, if any of you know what its like to work on the engine of a 4th generation f-body, this engine bay appears to be quite a bit more forgiving

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

is this what i need? clearly that driver's side guide looks reinforced compared to the stock one.

Post by **240FeVeR** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

You would need to remove your oil pan and get out any of the chain guide that has managed to survive down there. That's the kit you need, metal backing to a plastic guide instead of an all plastic guide.

You should go to a nissan dealership and find out if the timing chain recall was ever performed on your vehicle. If it hasn't, then you can have it done for free by Nissan.

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

I spoke with nissan and they verified that the seat belt recall needs to be done on her.

Now I asked the staff person if there were any other recalls/campaigns outstanding on this car and it didn't even seem like he checked, but he replied no that there wasn't any others to be done on the car.

If someone can get me a recall number, like someone so graciously did for me about the seatbelt recall, I'd GREATLY appreciate it.

That way I can call up and ask if a specific recall was done on it.

Thanks,

lbrowne

Post by **Queamore** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

Bam! Ask and you shall recive

http://www.alldata.com/TSB/41/89411319.html

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

Thanks a bunch!!!!

Post by **C-Kwik** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

lbrowne wrote:how much danger am i in if i drive her like that?

she has 100k miles.

Change it as soon as possible. The chain can actually touch the front engine cover and rub a hole into the water cavity. I actually replaced a set of guides on a SOHC years ago and found this had happened. Went to several junkyards looking for a new front cover. Found most of them had a hole in the front cover as well from the same thing.

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

If nissan were to cover this recall, the closest Nissan dealership is about 450 Kilometers away, highway driving @60-70 mph (but why wouldn't they ahve told me initially this was an outstanding recall?

)

I'm pretty sure she would make the trip, what do you guys think?

I'm still thinking they would have told me this recall was outstanding, or will they not tell you unless you ask about it? Cuz I asked if there was any other recalls not performed on the car and the fella said no.

Post by **Queamore** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

Well I think at this point you have to ask yourself if the people who owned it before you actually thought that those things were important. Another part of buying a car is knowing the owners. They might not have had time to have there car siting at the dealership when it seems like there is nothing wrong with it at the time. Then after a little while they forget about the letter they got and sell the car. Most car dealers when they buy them at the auctions they pop the hood start it up buy it and put it on the lot. they don't spend the time to go through it and make sure everything is taken care of they just want the money.

I say take it up there and see if you can get it done for free if you can't, buy a book and the things you need and get started. I have a shop in the south sububurbs of chicago I'd probably charge about 200 to do it. other will charge you 300 and up from what I've heard.

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

Well, I know the people who owned it before me, and they didn't know about the seatbelt recall. So them being the 2nd owner I'd the original owner didn't heed her letters she recieved from Nissan I guess.

The orginal owner had traded the 240sx in for a new vehicle, and was friends of the lady who bought it then after.

Now its in my hands, begging for odds n ends to be done. I did the complete front brakes, TC Rods and bushings are next up, but the timing chain needs to be done stat from what i can gather on here. I can do the job myself I'm pretty sure, but if Nissan is going to honour the recall like they are for the seatbelts for me, I'll get them to do it

I'm pretty sure she would make the trip to the dealership with no problems....

Post by **DAEDALUS** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

Very interesting thread! The guides on the '90-'93 Q45 are the absolute biggest concern for Q owners who know about them. Do a search and you'll see what I mean. I was surprised to stumble across this thread and to find it's a problem shared with other models in the Nissan/Infiniti heritage. Isn't the 240sx engine an interference-head engine? On a Q, a broken piece of nylon can get caught between the chain and sprocket, thereby derailing the chain and destroying the engine. The heads don't come off very easily! At least not without removing the engine first. Perhaps this doesn't happen often on the 240sx because of the different geometries of the chains.

Besides allowing the chain to cut a groove into the cover or block, there is another distinct risk of not having a guide there. Consider what happens when you let off the gas suddenly from 6500 rpm. The crankshaft slows down fast...much faster than the camshaft. This allows a lot of chain to bunch up between the 2 sprockets. Then you hit a bump in the road. There might actually be enough slack to allow the chain to jump off the sprocket. I can't say for sure this is a possibility, but it does happen to Qs often enough to be widely recognized as a big problem. Granted, the Q's chain has more length to it. I think your car will make it to the dealership too, but I'd be careful to not rev it too high and/or to not let off the gas too fast. Good luck on getting that freebie.

Website · Post by **JNM240** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

The timing chain guide recall on the 240SX is not a dealer responsible recall. It is not a safety recall. Only the seatbelt buttons were a safety recall. If you look at that Alldata web site a few posts up you will see that it is a general recall, not a safety recall. The timing chain guide is a part recall, meaning if you purchase a new timing chain kit, it will come with the updated guide. If you go to the dealership and ask them to replace your timing chain guide they will charge you, but it will come with the updated guide as a result of the recall.

Post by **hherbson** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

Party Pooper!

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

I purchased a full timing chain kit off of ebay, an updated kit with the reinforced guides, tensioner, chain, oil seal, upper and lower sprockets, buddy is also throwing a new valve cover gasket, thermostat, and PCV valve.

All those will be installed in the near future, I may even look at replacing the waterpump while I'm at it.

I think more than anything this job will be time consuming rather than hard. I'll have most of whats in front that I have to remove out rather quickly. Its a far cry from the engine bay in my TA

Post by **PMan_S13** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

I just took off my valve cover, because I too, was hearing that dragging chain noise at low rpms.

Well, when I took it off, all I can see that I would consider a guide is a metal plate about 1 by 2 inches that sits right on top of the timing chain.

Now like I said this thing is solid metal. I took it off and let the motor start up after putting it all back together and it still makes that annoying sound. So I have put that thing back on.

Is the guide something I have not seen? Is it possible that someone has already replaced that guide with this nice metal one? If so, what could this sounds possibly be?? Please help!

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

if you have a DOHC, its the lower timing chain guide that you're hearing. Do a search on here and you'll find out how common the problem is.

lbrowne

Post by **PMan_S13** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

ok, I did a few more searches and tried different words in my searches this time, seeing if I somehow missed an all important answer to my problem.

Well, I still am not finding it.

It seems that there are a lot of people asking about how to fix it and everyone just says something generic like "take off the timing chain guide"

I already know that's what I need to do. Someone just tell me how to do it. If it's the lower chain guide, how do I get to it? I was barely able to fit my fingers along the chain to feel for plastic, let alone shine anything down there so I can see what the hell I'm doing.

This may just be a job for someone with more patience than me (and who likes to get paided for such things) unless I can get a nice answer on how to do this... ...I need some sleep...

Website · Post by **lbrowne** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:34 pm

yeah, get someone with more patience to do the job. you can't get at the bottom timing chain guide without dismantling some things off the front of the engine first.

or you can get a chiltons, or even the pdf version of a nissan manual that was floating around here....

I got the valve cover off, and looked at the Timing Chain, heres what I found...

I got the valve cover off, and looked at the Timing Chain, heres what I found...

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