I GOT ROBBED

[nechills]

SO I BOUGHT A 1994 Q45 FOR $2000 UNDER THE IMPRESSION IT WAS WORKING AND THE SELLER SAID THE ACTIVE SUSPENSION WAS "ACTING UP, WORKING OFF AND ON" SO I TOOK IT TO THE INFINITI DEALERSHIP AND THE MECHANICS THERE SAID THAT THE SUSPENSION STRUTS WERE COMPLETLEY DESTROYED AND ALL FOUR WOULD HAVE TO BE REPLACED (IT FAILED THE STATE SAFETY INSPECTION B/C OF THE PROBLEM). THE COST FOR EACH PIECE IS $1500 AND THE TOTAL ESTIMATE TO GET IT FIXED WAS OVER $7,000. JUST WANTED TO SAY THANKS TO THOSE WHO RESPONDED TO MY PREVIOUS QUESTIONS AND ANY FEASIBLE SOLUTIONS WOULD BE GREAT OTHERWISE I'M OUT OF LUCK. DAMN IT SUCKS.

[qship96]

you didnt get robed,you made an uninformed purchase,no one to blame but yourself.

[Q_SHIP]

If Im not mistaken, texasoil can recharge them all for about $1500.

[96Qowner]

Call Keith (texasoil):

http://www.q45asuspension.com/

Current Infiniti dealerships are notorious for not knowing anything about the 90-96 Q45, much less the active suspension option. Keith can recharge the "struts" for a fraction of that cost.

[Q45tech]

texasoil can recharge them all for about $1500, however that doesn't help the ones that are leaking fluid.

1994 with a working engine , transmission, driveshaft, and diff is definitely worth $2,000.

If a typical non active needs $3,000 to make it functional $7,000 in total with discounts and other rehabilitated parts sounds cheap.

Don't let the dealership repair it or you will end up with a $7000 bill and not get the other non active portions repaired.

I always think of the used Q as a $10,000 car ......the difference between what you pay [assumming hard bargaining] and $10k is the repair budget!

[ceningolmo]

First, welcome to NICO.

Before answering the below questions, may I politely request that you not type in all caps, and also check the link in my sig? You may find that information handy in future posts.

Anyway... on to the important stuff.

SO I BOUGHT A 1994 Q45 FOR $2000...

Nice price... but, as you state below, only if the car has good mechanicals to go along with the price!

Quote »...UNDER THE IMPRESSION IT WAS WORKING AND THE SELLER SAID THE ACTIVE SUSPENSION WAS "ACTING UP, WORKING OFF AND ON"...[/quote]There isn't much "off and on" about the active system. If it has been properly maintained and is in good mechanical condition it should be working without trouble. If you are having periods of non-operational behavior then the system is in trouble. Do some searches "active suspension", read some of my posts (I don't know much, but I ask lots of questions), and read ANYTHING by Texasoil (Keith Bowers). Keith is your best bet to get the active working properly.

Quote »...SO I TOOK IT TO THE INFINITI DEALERSHIP...[/quote]Unfortunately, taking it to the dealership is a mistake 9 times out of 10. Particularly where the Active suspension system is involved. You are better off doing some reading here. This isn't a blanket statement, of course, but a rule of thumb. Heuristically speaking, infiniti technicians are rarely trained for the G50 anymore and almost none are trained for the Active system. You will likely receive advice that is little more than a "best guess".

Quote »...AND THE MECHANICS THERE SAID THAT THE SUSPENSION STRUTS WERE COMPLETLEY DESTROYED AND ALL FOUR WOULD HAVE TO BE REPLACED...[/quote]This part is thoroughly unlikely. The struts in the active system are referred to by Nissan as "actuators" in the hydraulic system. The truth is that these actuators are far less likely to fail than the accumulators associated with them. Typically some MMO in the active fluid (Nissan Fruid A- Active) will help recondition any seals that may be leaking in the actuators. Call Keith...he'll set you up with what you need.

Quote »...(IT FAILED THE STATE SAFETY INSPECTION B/C OF THE PROBLEM).[/quote]After contacting Keith, doing a lot of reading, and determining your best plan of action...you will be able to pass your state inspection without trouble.

Quote »THE COST FOR EACH PIECE IS $1500 AND THE TOTAL ESTIMATE TO GET IT FIXED WAS OVER $7,000.[/quote]Reading, research, asking questions, and contacting Keith will probably allow you to get your TOTAL restoration cost for the Active system to roughly the same price you were quoted for one "strut" by the dealership.

Quote »JUST WANTED TO SAY THANKS TO THOSE WHO RESPONDED TO MY PREVIOUS QUESTIONS AND ANY FEASIBLE SOLUTIONS WOULD BE GREAT OTHERWISE I'M OUT OF LUCK. DAMN IT SUCKS.[/quote]Don't lose heart... you have a rare and beautiful automobile that is in need of love and attention. Some of the fixes will be cheap and easy, others will require some money and elbow grease. In the end, though, you will be left with the finest performing suspension system ever produced. You'll love it!

[qsiguy]

You also have the option of converting it to non-active for a lot less $$. If you don't really care about having the active feature you might concider that.

[ceningolmo]

You also have the option of converting it to non-active for a lot less $$. If you don't really care about having the active feature you might concider that.

Just for accuracy sake... it is NOT significantly less expensive to convert to standard.

Plan on spending $1500 to $2000 on restoration of active system assuming 9 accums, fresh fluid, and possibly a sensor or two need to be fixed/replaced. This, of course, assumes you will be doing your own labor. But, most of the stuff involved is not difficult and does not require any special tools. If an actuator needs to be replaced, you may not be able to do your own labor. In that case, you should assume an additional $500 (including labor) for actuator replacement. However, as stated earlier, the actuators fail FAR less often accumulators. So, it's unlikely that you will need to replace actuator.

For conversion... the active to standard kit from Joe at Infiniti of Scottsdale using stock struts runs $1909. Some savings can be found by going to the conversion kit using Tokiko blue struts, pricing out at $1416 from Joe. All of this is strictly parts... and, a significant portion of the labor involved in conversion is difficult and requires special tools.

Of course, one could try to obtain used parts for a portion of the conversion kit... then, buy what is left from Joe. But, even then, with the labor that you will likely require, the cost is going to be near if not exceeding the cost of restoration.

To the advantage of conversion is the fact that the suspension system will require less effort and less expensive maintenance down the road. It will have options in terms of lowering ride height that are not as easily attainable on the Active system. On the downside...well... you wouldn't have an Active anymore. Lame.

Save the Actives, save the world.

[nechills]

How would I go about changing from the active suspension to non-active?

[Q_SHIP]

HAHAH!!! ceningolmo looks like you wasted time.

I say save it too. It's a rare breed!!

[nechills]

I was prepared to spend another $2,000 to $3,000 and I have that to spend but I don't have $7,000. I sent texasoil an email and I'm waiting on his reponse. I tried to put the pics of the car up but had trouble. Will have them soon so y'all can see what I invested in. Just curious, if I had to bring it to texasoil what state is he in?

P.S. I am car illiterate and will not come close to attempting to do it myself.

[Rex]

I was prepared to spend another $2,000 to $3,000 and I have that to spend but I don't have $7,000. I sent texasoil an email and I'm waiting on his reponse. I tried to put the pics of the car up but had trouble. Will have them soon so y'all can see what I invested in. Just curious, if I had to bring it to texasoil what state is he in?

P.S. I am car illiterate and will not come close to attempting to do it myself.

Keith (texasoil) is in Texas.

If you have budgeted that kind of money for repairs, and can drive the car, take it to T3 in ATL with the State inspection results and see if they can resolve the items on the inspection sufficiently with your budegted funds.

[nechills]

Keith (texasoil) is in Texas.

If you have budgeted that kind of money for repairs, and can drive the car, take it to T3 in ATL with the State inspection results and see if they can resolve the items on the inspection sufficiently with your budegted funds.

They didn't give me any official form saying I failed inspection, the invoice copy I have just says that all four active struts leaking. Says I'm not authorized to look at the link you gave for the pics

[ceningolmo]

Keith is in Texas. I am not even sure if he does labor... you'd have to ask him.

I highly recommend searching some of my early posts. I was in the "how do I open hood?" category of car knowledge. And, I have done all the restoration on my two Q's thus far... with huge help from NICO and a little personal ( ) attention from Wes of course.

If I can figure out how to work on the Q... you can too! It will make your budget stretch at least twice as far. Of course, if I had the chance to take my Q to T3 in Atlanta, i'd take advantage of that as well.

[nechills]

If I can figure out how to work on the Q... you can too! It will make your budget stretch at least twice as far. Of course, if I had the chance to take my Q to T3 in Atlanta, i'd take advantage of that as well.

What is T3? Are they extra reasonable or something? Do they specialize in Q's or something

[ceningolmo]

T3 is a shop that specializes in a few cars... the Q is one of them. They are considered the authority when it comes to working on the Q.

Are the reasonable? Considering that you know it will be done and done correctly...I'd say yes. Very reasonable. But, it's always cheaper to work on it on your own.

[nechills]

I apologize for my ignorance, just frustrated. I just looked up T3 on the web, there are three that came up and one is an infiniti specialist in Smyrna, GA. Just wanna make sure that is the one you were reffering to b/c I most definitely will take it to them.

[ceningolmo]

That's the one. Q45Tech will probably be able to offer you some details as well. Do a search for some of his posts.

[nechills]

I apologize for my ignorance, just frustrated. I just looked up T3 on the web, there are three that came up and one is an infiniti specialist in Smyrna, GA. Just wanna make sure that is the one you were reffering to b/c I most definitely will take it to them.

I found their website, thanks again to everyone[IMG][/IMG]

[Q_SHIP]

T3 is a shop that specializes in a few cars... the Q is one of them. They are considered the authority when it comes to working on the Q..

Off topic but just curious. What other cars do they specialize in?

[lino]

I got my accumulators recharged by Keith and it's what makes me appreciate and want to keep my Q45a. Keith is an absolute gentleman and an extremely knowledgeable person on the subject. It has been the most important and significant upgrade I've done to my car. I can't see myself with a standard Q45 (no disrespect guys). I just love my ACTIVE that much.

[ceningolmo]

I'm not sure on the list... but, I've read references by Q45Tech to similar work that they have done on some other vehicles. I want to say older Lexus was among them... perhaps they specialize in Japanese import?

[maxnix]

Off topic but just curious. What other cars do they specialize in?

Lexus.

Search is a great enabling service!

[bretfraz]

T3 has 3 locations in Metro Atlanta - Smyrna, Decatur and a new one in Roswell. I've taken my '94 to the Smyrna location and had a great experience. Ty, Byron and everyone got my Q running great. It hasn't needed a thing since.

It's easy to get to from where you are, about a 4 hour drive. If you have friends or family in the ATL, you can make a little vacation out of the trip. I think T3 has lots of customers who come to T3 from out of state and drop off their Q's for service.

I don't think you're going to find a better independent repair shop for Infiniti's than T3. And, yeah, they work on Lexus, too.

[96Qowner]

Just curious, if I had to bring it to texasoil what state is he in?

P.S. I am car illiterate and will not come close to attempting to do it myself.

You don't necessarily have to take the car to Keith. You have a local shop remove the accumulators and actuators (as many as need attention - there are 4 actuators and 5 accumulators if I remember correctly) and send them to Keith, who will recharge them and send them back to be reinstalled. One of the other posters can probably tell you how much labor that would be. You don't usually need to recharge all 9 components at once.

Also, I believe that there is a limited method for conditioning the seals on the actuators, if they aren't too far gone.

[ceningolmo]

You don't necessarily have to take the car to Keith. You have a local shop remove the accumulators and actuators (as many as need attention - there are 4 actuators and 5 accumulators if I remember correctly) and send them to Keith, who will recharge them and send them back to be reinstalled. One of the other posters can probably tell you how much labor that would be. You don't usually need to recharge all 9 components at once.

Also, I believe that there is a limited method for conditioning the seals on the actuators, if they aren't too far gone.

Agreed! I'm partially retarded and I figured out how to do my own accumulators.

By the way, there are 4 actuators (struts), and 9 accumulators (4 at the actuators and 5 elsewhere). Refurbed actuators can be had on a limited basis from Keith... he sells them for $275 each if I remember correctly. You will need outside labor to replace that, though.

Honestly, replacing accumulators is not difficult at all. I replaced the 4 accums at my actuators in less than an hour... and, I'm barely competent.

[redmanfx]

Just for accuracy sake... it is NOT significantly less expensive to convert to standard.

Plan on spending $1500 to $2000 on restoration of active system assuming 9 accums, fresh fluid, and possibly a sensor or two need to be fixed/replaced. This, of course, assumes you will be doing your own labor. But, most of the stuff involved is not difficult and does not require any special tools. If an actuator needs to be replaced, you may not be able to do your own labor. In that case, you should assume an additional $500 (including labor) for actuator replacement. However, as stated earlier, the actuators fail FAR less often accumulators. So, it's unlikely that you will need to replace actuator.

For conversion... the active to standard kit from Joe at Infiniti of Scottsdale using stock struts runs $1909. Some savings can be found by going to the conversion kit using Tokiko blue struts, pricing out at $1416 from Joe. All of this is strictly parts... and, a significant portion of the labor involved in conversion is difficult and requires special tools.

Of course, one could try to obtain used parts for a portion of the conversion kit... then, buy what is left from Joe. But, even then, with the labor that you will likely require, the cost is going to be near if not exceeding the cost of restoration.

To the advantage of conversion is the fact that the suspension system will require less effort and less expensive maintenance down the road. It will have options in terms of lowering ride height that are not as easily attainable on the Active system. On the downside...well... you wouldn't have an Active anymore. Lame.

Save the Actives, save the world.

I keep seeing that converting your active suspension is equal to, if not more money than keeping your suspension active. I totally and whole heartedly disagree! Sorry, but eventhough I want all actives to remain active and want to restore as many as possible, always telling folkes this nonsense has really got stop. You can get the conversion kit parts for much less than $1900 and $1400 and if you do the labor yourself you can have your Q converted for $700! Even less if you get used Tokico's. (Playing with fire, but still can be done)

How many times do folkes without active Q's jump on this band wagon as well?

My conversion cost me less then $700! Not $1900, not $1400, not $1200, not $1000, not even $800, so can we at least give some alternate ideas without the = or > cost of converting? Even future cost are less because your accumulators will have to be recharged just like I'll have to get new Tokico's.

Granted that restoring the Q is Ideal and I want to steer folkes towards this end myself, but giving accurate info about options is part of what makes this site so rock solid. Half the reason for most folkes looking in is that they want less expensive ways to get that Q running good. (Not Ideal for having such a wonderful car, but it's true non the less) It's not our fault that the older Q's are so down trodden by depreciation that you can pick one up for so little making some think that they can fix'er up for nothing. We know better and we should tell them how much having a Q is going to cost them, but we should be mindful of those folkes who visit here who don't have $1900 or $1400 and who don't know what they got themselves into when they bought the money sucking beautiful Q. It's an addiction and we all know it.

Anyway, you can convert your Q for $700. Lots of hard DIY work, but it can be done. Saying that, KEEP your Q active!....But now you know the rest of the story. Did I confuse anyone?

[96Qowner]

By the way, there are 4 actuators (struts), and 9 accumulators (4 at the actuators and 5 elsewhere).

Aha! Thanks, I never picked up on that before. I always assumed the actuators had the accumulators built in. So actuators are the "pistons/shocks", and accumulators are the "pressure tanks". Yes?

[elwesso]

Aha! Thanks, I never picked up on that before. I always assumed the actuators had the accumulators built in. So actuators are the "pistons/shocks", and accumulators are the "pressure tanks". Yes?

Basically... The actuators are what actually do the work,the accumulators help make it not harsh.....

[ceningolmo]

I keep seeing that converting your active suspension is equal to, if not more money than keeping your suspension active. I totally and whole heartedly disagree! Sorry, but eventhough I want all actives to remain active and want to restore as many as possible, always telling folkes this nonsense has really got stop. You can get the conversion kit parts for much less than $1900 and $1400 and if you do the labor yourself you can have your Q converted for $700! Even less if you get used Tokico's. (Playing with fire, but still can be done)

How many times do folkes without active Q's jump on this band wagon as well?

My conversion cost me less then $700! Not $1900, not $1400, not $1200, not $1000, not even $800, so can we at least give some alternate ideas without the = or > cost of converting? Even future cost are less because your accumulators will have to be recharged just like I'll have to get new Tokico's.

Granted that restoring the Q is Ideal and I want to steer folkes towards this end myself, but giving accurate info about options is part of what makes this site so rock solid. Half the reason for most folkes looking in is that they want less expensive ways to get that Q running good. (Not Ideal for having such a wonderful car, but it's true non the less) It's not our fault that the older Q's are so down trodden by depreciation that you can pick one up for so little making some think that they can fix'er up for nothing. We know better and we should tell them how much having a Q is going to cost them, but we should be mindful of those folkes who visit here who don't have $1900 or $1400 and who don't know what they got themselves into when they bought the money sucking beautiful Q. It's an addiction and we all know it.

Anyway, you can convert your Q for $700. Lots of hard DIY work, but it can be done. Saying that, KEEP your Q active!....But now you know the rest of the story. Did I confuse anyone?

Ok... so, again, for accuracy sake we should probably put together some guidelines for the difference between conversion and restoration. The information I gave in my original post were accurate to the best of my knowledge and is based on the reading and research I have done here in the Q forum.

Your quote of a conversion for $700 is drastically, incredibly, staggeringly less money than any other estimation of cost for conversion I have seen. In fact, it is the first time I have seen the total cost of conversion quoted at less than $2000.

So, a few things that I think would be helpful when we provide options for people asking these questions in the future. With the above range of pricing between $700 and $4000 for conversion and/or restoration in mind.

1. A full write up of how to do a conversion on your own including pricing. If we can provide a viable alternative to restoration that includes competent instruction that would make a huge difference. This write up should include a full list of all the things that need to be completed in order for the active system to properly and safely removed or stopped from operation. Finally, an accurate and honest representation of the difference between new and used parts that can be applied. Which parts are in the "who cares" category whether it is new or used, which parts are in the "probably best new" category, and which pars are in the "new parts only" category for replacement. Labor on this project will be MUCH more difficult than it is for restoration. So, I think specific instructions about what type of tools are necessary and how exactly to accomplish it are important.

2. A full write up of how to do a restoration including pricing. This would include information from Keith and would also include information about restoring any other common issues. A lot of this work is straight from the FSM and is pretty straight forward... but, a really nice write up how to do it would be handy. Included should be some pictures of where all the sensors are located since the FSM is nearly useless at identify what they look like and where they are.

Hopefully, with all that information in hand, we can make some reasonable recommendations that are accurate to cost, effort, level of difficulty, effect on performance, future maintenance, and effect on the longevity of the car or suspension system.