I got a bone to pick...

[davidricardo86]

First of all, I dislike peoples opinions on Honda and any other manufacturers besides the car they drive. For example, some one was saying something about VTEC and Honda technology.

First of all HONDA IS THE SH*T! Accept it! I own a 1992 Nissan 240SX SE and i can actually say that because i know damn well that these dudes in Japan got their sh*t down. Nissan is a great company but if you asked me or someone who knows what theyre talking about, they might tell you the same. If you actually know sh*t about engine technology or automobile technology in general, you would know that Toyota and Honda are some of the great pioneers in engine technology. Back in the late 1980's, Toyota cam out with the first affordable, high reving, lightweight, Dual Over Head Cam engine for the mass market, known as the 4AGE (for its day atleast). Oh wow, a ka24de. Boring outdated classic rocker arm technology. Its great for the average person, but not that great for my standards. How variable valve timing and cam phasing work is a wonderful concept! Nissan didnt get on the techno savy bandwagon till a few years later. While Mitsubishi sort of started this, Honda, then Toyota then later Nissan and other manufacturers all came along with their versions of varying cam timing, etc. A ca18det is crap compared to some of the latest and greatest from Honda Motor Co. I know a lot of you do not like hearing this but its true. Accept the fact. Then respond with a civil and intellectual comment. Even back when Honda's VTEC system came out in the NSX, its was roocking the hell out of our CA18DET, SR20DET, etc. Even an RB engine wasnt all that great when it frist debuted. Except for power and boost. Our engines DO NOT have better breathing than a Honda NA engine. Our precious SRs, and Rbs, or even our "free reving" CAs dont compare. Maybe the new RBs, SRs, and some of the latest engine from Nissan. Dont think so? Well buddy youre wrong. The way that the cam lobes are setup for high end and low end is great! Think of it almost like SOHC vs DOHC. One camshaft controlling intake and the other camshaft controlling exhaust. Thats great! Two things are better than one, for this example. Yeeah yeah yeah... i know some might say something about the reving abilities of both but thats not my point. But now add variable valve timing with lift control (Toyota's VVTL-i ) and youre on a whole new level.

This time we'll say mine just for this example, a DOHC CA 1.8L does not breath better than a B18 VTEC engine from Honda! Its an NA motor meant to achieve great flow in high and low rpms with its infamous VTEC system. My engine doesnt have that option. Either i can make power in the low end, or the high end. Thats it! Nothing else. You could try and find a happy medium but its nothing compared to being able to have control over both. Yeah the torque is "low" but Honda did not produce these cars to be "V8 torque monsters!!!!" Look at Honda and what they actually try to do. TRACK! Integra, Civic, S2000, NSX, etc. Not 1/4 mile or drag racing. Overall balance, qaulity and a whole lot of engineering. Drag racing is great, just not for Honda. I myself prefer track. CA vs B18. Sorry CA not this time. Nissan didnt need variable valve timing because they put turbochargers and produce great numbers, etc. Just different companies taking different routes. I think GM, Ford, and others are barely catching up to this technology.

Please for the love of god dont post some retarded sh*t about "Honda VTIK this and that, F'ing Honda, Honda engines have liek 98 ft lb of torque... etc." because obviously my friend, you are a moron. Learn, study, then discuss. Dont bash on other manufacturers for their technologcal feats. Just because our engines dont have ceratin things, doesnt mean theyre not great, it just means theyre not AS great.

Sorry for the long post but i had to get this off my chest. This was because of another topic thats going on now, so i thought id make my own.

[c-rad]

First off, who the hell cares? Second, the KA24DE does not use "rocker arm technology". It has the exact same valvetrain design as the RB/VG/CA series with cam on bucket style lifter design. Who the hell cares about variable timing? That is just one more thing to get in the way of high performance tuning. Why do you think all the high performance Honda drag cars use the B18B non-vtec head? The same reason people don't use the S14/15 SR20 motors when building all-out engines. Dude, seriously, go take your rant to clubsi. And I assume you have no concrete facts or compiled data to back up your "flow" assumptions so I will just take those arguments with a grain of salt. Honestly, you've been registered here almost a year and have made 20 of your 25 posts in the last few days. Please go back to the closet you crawled out of. Thanks.

[asher4857]

i cant believe i wasted my time reading that.. seriously.. i for one know that hondas make low torque and yea, they arent the best drag cars in the world. but does someone wanna explain that to the fag that pulls up next to me looking for a drag race..? Why not go tell your other honda friends that because obviously they need that lesson more than us..

[float_6969]

Although I agree with most of what you're saying, you're also not comparing apples to apples in the CA vs B18 comparison. The CA18DE(T) was ENGINEERED in the early 80's. The B18 was being ENGINEERED about the time that Nissan was phasing out the CA18. The REASON that it was being phased out was because Nissan spent too much money on engineering in the 80's and was going bankrupt. The SR20, KA24, ect, were all "economy" motors in comparison to the CA, RB, and VG in regards to the technological effort put into them. IMHO even the KADE has a better head design than the SR20 in regards to the valvetrain.

IMHO, Nissan didn't have the MONEY in the early 90's to develop variable cam timing or lift, of any sort.

Compare the Honda motors of the mid 80's to the Nissan Motor's of the mid 80's and I think you'll understand why Nissan was considered "ahead of it's time"....

PS-just to reiderate, I have no qualms about VTEC and think it's a great technology. But if you want some really cool Cam timing technology, take a look at Ferrari and Porsche...

[Smurf6x6]

What do you do for a living to know about engines? Why do honda's have no torque, exspecially in low rpms is because the head flows to much. They have a high flowing head overlapped cams. Main resone for a ****ty bottem end. Nissan has swerl control valves in the mainifold to keep the head from flowing to much at low rpm. Honda had them on the B18C1 gsr. Thats why they have more bottem end than the other B series motors. Vtec was is for fuel saving. Not for power. It holds back power, till the upper end. Guy before you rant, get facts stright. It all matter what you want to do with the car. Everyone knows honda's pretty much make the best flowing heads out of factory but thats not always what you want. Please go rant someplace else, better yet read up on engine design etc not non-sense your heard on forums or some of you buddies. Most people are full of ****.

[Smurf6x6]

Keep the money non-sense, stereo-typing and racing bs out of this. Talking about why they stopped producing the ca or what car is faster does not prove jack. No body cares how fast you car is, no body going to race you *** over the net.

[capwred]

why did you even post this bs for?did someone piss you off?if you like the honda better why dont you sewll your 240 and buy one and stop ranting about it.

[davidricardo86]

I just posted this on the basis that so many of my fellow Nissan tuners here can be so ignorant and blind and instead take offense and start using insults, etc. I joined this forum with hopes of chatting with others with similar interests and knowledge. But instead i get comments, even from moderators, about how horrible other manufacturers are, etc. Cmon. Lets use our minds for better things.

The KA rocker arm thing, youre right c-rad. My mistake. I can admit mistakes. I shouldve said SR20. Now as for "variable valve timing to get in the way of high performance tuning?" Im sorry but that statement in itself is confusing. Who cares about variable valve timing? Well obviously not you because your engine will never have it unless you purchase one that does! So all the "high performance Honda cars" remove or dont use VTEC? You mean drag racers. Turbocharged drag racers to be exact. Or those just purely wanting turbochargers. VTEC does get in their way and limits their boosting capablilities. Hence why the dont use it. VTEC is best used for NA! The same reason people dont use s14/15 SR20s. The majority of these motors are turbocharged. Hmmm.... and i registered a long time ago but completely forgot about this site. Ok?!

And as for asher4857, sorry i wasted 5 minutes of your precious little life. I can't give that back to you, but i hope you and i become smarter and learn from these type of experiences. As for the guy pulling up to you for a street race, I have no control over that. Obviously ever basket has its bad apple... or however that saying goes... lol...

Float_6969, i agree. It almost wasnt a fair comparison but its what most of us are up against today. Its true, no? And i did not know Nissan faced the problems you talked about back in the 80's. Good information to know!

[asher4857]

im not saying you can controll that, im saying as opposed to "educating" us over at a NISSAN forum go educate the HONDA forum users who obviolsy dont understand what you're saying.. A lot of us on the forum understand what you're saying and most of us dont bash on other cars just because its a honda. just because you see 2 or 3 people on a forum doenst mean evenone is like that. as you said, every basket has its bad apple.

[91RMKS13]

You do realize that Nissan does infact have vairiable cam timing right? You fvcking retard if you want a fair comparison compare a B18C1 to an SR20VE. Or maybe a B16 to a SR16VE.

[AZhitman]

VH45DE: Best application of variable valve timing ever.

Unsolicited education is bound to irritate people.

Would you like it if I showed up on a forum you frequented and blathered on about how superior the VH45DE and VG30DE is to almost any engine in mass production by a major-market manufacturer?

[AZhitman]

BTW, when Toyota and Honda come out with HICAS, ATTESSA, and ActSus, I'll believe that they're "cutting edge".

They're not.

Variable valve timing wasn't a Honda "invention" anyway.

Remember, Oldsmobile broke new ground in 1949 with the Hydramatic. BFD.

[davidricardo86]

To smurf6x6 - I agree with the majority of your response. My stock KA24DE has butterfly valves in its manifold too! No biggie. And youre right, VTEC does wonders for fuel and EMISSIONS! No need for EGR valve if the valving is timed correctly. But i was more or less taling about variable valve timing and how i wish my older style motor had that. Oh well i dont. I have to implement a turbocharger to make power, instead of using atmospheric pressure and vacuum. Theres no need to swear at me. Im not mad at you or anybody. Show some respect. I respect you.

To capwred - Im not "pissed" at anyone. Just wanted to know why you and me, being Nissan guys, you have to hate so much on other manufacturers and its not bs. A car is a car! No?

To asher4857 - I think youre starting to see my point. Obviously not everyone in this forum is the same. But you guys came out pretty strong there. And no i am not going to a Honda forum, blah, blah, blah. Cmon. I told you guys i have a Nissan and i like my Nissan.

To 91rmks13 - Yes i am aware of the sr20ve and Nissan variable valve timing available in the sentra motors upto the the V-type motors aswell. Thanks but no need to be calling anyone names. Were a little more civilized than the apes. Isnt the sr20ve the one with variable compression ratio? I read that in an automotive magazine at school.

[Smurf6x6]

Don't compare manufactors in gernral. David how about all those honda motors running around burning blues due to worn pistion rings? Why High temps and friction. The cause no oil squirters. CA etc have oil squirters but high turbo temps heat the oil up neways. Every engine has downfalls.

[davidricardo86]

To AZhitman - Thanks for that bit of info. I wasnt aware of that. And i realize Honda wasnt the "inventor" of variable valve timing. Youre right. They just merely have made it great and widely availble within their cars! My knowledge on Oldsmobile is so minute, i didnt even know that.

[davidricardo86]

To smurf6x6 - I will compare manufacturer to manufacturer. I wont say i hate either or. They each have their intended purpose. An yes Honda engines suffer from a lot of stress because of the ability to maintain high engine temperatures and speeds. Honda Motors are known to be high reving, where as my KA is not. Oh well. Doesnt matter. But if i were to turbocharge it, it would suffer from high engine temps due to the compressor. Hence why we would want oil squirters. For example if you watch some Best Motoring videos, they do similar comparisons, turbo vs NA endurance races. Cool stuff.

[SeVa-S13]

I think Audi used the first recent form of VVT (CamPhasing I think they called it) on a large scale. Nissan, through Infiniti was the first Japanese manufacturer to do so. Of course Honda came out with their great version of it (VTEC, which varies lift and timing, no? hence the extra power) and it kinda became their "thing" through marketing, and the fact that any car with it says it in like 7 different places on the car most of the time.

I'll always appreciate Honda engines for being some of the first "regular" cars with 100bhp/L.

[Smurf6x6]

I'm not swearing at you or mad at you. It's just my choice of wording. It's clear you need to just relax and take in some more. Don't just chill on these boards cause you going to always have the guys that say nissan is the best. On a honda board your going to have the guys saying honda is the best. In the real world none of them are. They just take each others ideas and tech. I work for nissan and i'm not running around saying there the best but I truly do love em lol but I just don't stop at nissan.

[driftdevil.com]

I personally love hondas, have had a delsol & a civic. The civic is where I got into turbo's, which is why I ended up with the 240. I boosted my civic to the point of death and it was a blast.. literally. Only problem I had with it was the low end really sucked. The car wasn't worth a crap until you got into 2nd. but I loved it anyways. Got rid of the civic for my Mazda 3 sport, being its my family car I cannot really risk going turbo on it and I love turbos so I started looking for a car meant to be turbocharged that I could afford to play with. Here comes the 240, now all I gotta do is get the motor for it and with a total of about 4,000 in add ons I'll have a beast. I dropped probably 12,000 in work on the civic and I never really got what I thought I should have out of it. But I don't see any reason to bash them, I achieved a lot with a car that was meant to get groceries.

[Smurf6x6]

Your KA has oil squirters and it NA. Best motoring is comparing cars in general not just the engine. Most of the time they are modified. Put a modified CA, SR, B18, H22A, 350 small block in a race, whos going to win? I donno, There is more factors than just the engines in these vids etc. Boost a B18 see if it holds up as well as a CA18. It doesn't (trust me i know a lot boosted hondas). N/A CA18 psshtt who the hell would buy one of those lol. See why I say there is no point in this comparision beside getting a lot of the people worked up here.

[AZhitman]

I think everyone was caught off guard by you bringing a crapton of "education" into a CA forum (rather than Gen Chat) and then mentioing the KA and not the CA.

Regardless, there's nothing wrong with "hatin'" on another manufacturer's products, as long as you're educated about them.

I hate Ford. With a passion. Their cars suck, their trucks suck, their ads suck, the way they treat their customers sucks, the way they dodged responsibility in the Crown Vic fiasco sucked.

I hate Lexus. Boring, bland, soulless rebadged Toyotas, with nothing more than marketing hype in their corner. Infiniti has pwned them in every category for over a decade, yet the American public (retards thet they are) keeps buying them and associating them with "quality" - Then again, they buy a lot of Furds, too...

I owned 2 honduhs, an 84 CRX and a 94 Si. Both were good cars, maybe even awesome cars. Doesn't mean I can't despise what they've become...

It's good for discussion, as long as it doesn't turn personal.

[audtatious]

I think Audi used the first recent form of VVT (CamPhasing I think they called it) on a large scale.

Fiat actually designed the first functional form of VVT with variable lift in the '70's....

[AZhitman]

p.s. Fiat was the first to use variable valve timing.

[91RMKS13]

You guys are freaks if you knew that off the top of your head.

[audtatious]

You guys are freaks if you knew that off the top of your head.

We B car guys

[91RMKS13]

Yeah but that is still kind of a wierd fact to know off the top of your head.

[davidricardo86]

To smurf6x6 - Hey thats what im saying. i agree. "Nissan is the best to me because im trying to make it the best, for me." Hey im studying right now to be a tech. A lot of good information. Good stuff!In my honest opinion turbo lacks on NA. Especially on the track(not to be confused with drag strip). Ive seen an NA sr20 and id want to see a CA18DE built but i havent actually got the strength to look it up... f*ck it... you know....Turbo CA, SR, KA, vs B16, B18, H22A, K20, vs Small block shevy (stock)... lol... who would win? hahahaha actually it would be between the light ca silvia and a light fwd like a 98 spec integra r with its b18.

To driftdevil.com - "I achieved a lot with a car that was meant to get groceries." Uhhhhh... Not in Japan... Neither was my 240SX but its "just some import car" here... That USA for yah! I almost called you dirt devil... ha

To AZhitman - Hey you just had that kind of experience. You owned a Ford! As funny as that sounds its in reality not exactly a thing i would chose for myself. That is why i have never and possibly might never purchase an American econo/car. Nope, not for me and im definately smarter than that. Cmon...Now about the other vehicles youve owned. Was it the "car" really? Think about...Everything around that car brought it down even more, like maintenance, quality, craftsmandship, technology, etc. so eventually you ended up hating it? Thats kinda what im concluding...? But it really doesnt matter because YOU are entitled to your opinion on manufacturers and you can chose not to buy from any certain manufacturer. Theres nothing wrong about that. I agree.See i dont know who was the FIRST manufacturer that actually implemented variable valve timing on a global scale, more like just my "Japanese Sports Cars Favoritos." Ive seen several great Fiats on GT4, too bad i dont research that more.

Funny... more than a few of us here have own a Honda previously. Unfortunately not me. They truly are good qaulity cars. brand new and well taken care of. Reliable cars for sure, with the correct knowledge.

FREAKS?!?!? wtf? why lol... Dude you got that Phat Nissan head guy doing a Honda Emblem?!?! That trips meeeee out...

[91RMKS13]

FREAKS?!?!? wtf? why lol... Dude you got that Phat Nissan head guy doing a Honda Emblem?!?! That trips meeeee out...

Yeah a very close freind of mine has an avatar that is just the opposite for his account on hondaforums.

You were complaining about our bashing of Hondas. Well then show us some examples if it is that bad.

Yes we do some times poke fun at Hondas from time to time. If you don't like what it being said don't read the thread . I don't get angry an type an essay whenever I hear of an uneducated honda owner talking **** about Nissans because he has Vtec and Nissans don't. Usually I give one of 4 responses:1. Keep it plain and simple and tell them to STFU!!!2. Educate them on a thing called Neo vvl.3. Walk away.4. Embarass him with my near stock KA and this thing it makes called torque.

But I am not about to go on to some national forum for Honda owners and tell them that they need to show respect for Nissan. f*** em let em talk sh1t.

[knightrider]

one thing i dont understand about your whole rant. you make a thread(why?), and call ppl morons and other general attacks on ppl here, then ask for "civil and intellectual" comments? um seriously who cares, ppl on hondatech bash toyota and nissan, nissan ppl bash toyota and honda, well everyone bashes honda. this thread is so useless. did anyone really ask for the history of toyotas 4ag? i didnt see any requests. i really dislike ppl who drive hondas, and do you want to know why? because 95% of them are dumb little kids that think thier civic is faster than a formula 1 racecar because they have an muffler, intake and cut springs. those 95% give the 5% that accually have a honda that makes power a bad name.. ill use the cop analogy, most cops are d!ck, and pull you over for bs reasons like because ur black, or have a shaved head, or your car is lowered, but then there are those few good cops that are accually out there preventing real crime and keeping the streets safer for you and me, but guess what, everyone hates them because all the bad cops give the few good ones a bad name.

moral of the story, next time something pisses you off, dont make a useless thread, go talk your mothers ear off about it, atleast she will pretend to care because she loves you.

[dattodude]

I don't like Honda people..so I don't like Hondas... Owning a Honda almost guarantees getting the car stolen for parts. This has encouraged me to never own a Honda.

I know they are good..but so is Heroin...