Check this out, Lots of great info.
http://forums.skylinesdownunde...26949
Talk to you all later!
I found this and thought I would share
can some download the FSM for me and send it to me? at [email protected] Thanks
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PROJECTRB240SX
- Posts: 3673
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 5:33 pm
- Car: 1972 DATSUN 240Z W/ SR20DET
Paydirt! Thanks very much. I've been searching for this all day... no.... all month!
With the FSM and the info for swapping in an S13 SR into an S14 found here I think there is enough to make it rather easy to put the RB20DET into my S14.
Now if I could just get a clip! My (second) clip is sitting just 40 miles away awaiting the availability of a truck with a liftgate to deliver it to my garage.
Shane
With the FSM and the info for swapping in an S13 SR into an S14 found here I think there is enough to make it rather easy to put the RB20DET into my S14.
Now if I could just get a clip! My (second) clip is sitting just 40 miles away awaiting the availability of a truck with a liftgate to deliver it to my garage.
Shane
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Phat_Optimo
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:36 am
- Car: 93 S13 SE
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Shift_Down
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- Car: cars, cars and oh yeah cars
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rbsileighty
- Posts: 1694
- Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 8:10 am
- Car: 92 S13 Hatch w/ RB20 & 05 Audi S4 Avant 6MT
Wulfgang wrote:Paydirt! Thanks very much. I've been searching for this all day... no.... all month!
With the FSM and the info for swapping in an S13 SR into an S14 found here I think there is enough to make it rather easy to put the RB20DET into my S14.
Now if I could just get a clip! My (second) clip is sitting just 40 miles away awaiting the availability of a truck with a liftgate to deliver it to my garage.
Shane
Hybrid and I have already done this swap (20 in a S14). Let us know what you need help with.
Thanks! Right now I just need an oil pan... the RB had a seriously dented one so Venus is sending a new one. I made up a list of the wiring that I think needs to be done, based on the wiring diagrams and have it posted as a pdf here.
I intend to use the KA lower harness and splice in the F3 connector to the RB engine harness. I plan to split off the power going to the ECU and ECCS relay and send it through the 7.5A fuse directly to the battery as the KA has it, instead of the RB way. The RB has the injectors hard wired (through the same fuse as the ECU and ECCS relay) to the battery. I will run mine as the KA has them, through a 30A fuse and through the ignition switch ON position. So the ECU always has power, but the injectors are powered only when the ignition switch is on.
I believe this way is better than just powering the ECU from the F3(pin 1) power, which will only turn on when the ignition switch is on. And it's definitely better than running all injector, sensor, and ignition coil power through the original KA ECU power line, which is fused at only 7.5 A.
Let me know what you think.
Shane
I intend to use the KA lower harness and splice in the F3 connector to the RB engine harness. I plan to split off the power going to the ECU and ECCS relay and send it through the 7.5A fuse directly to the battery as the KA has it, instead of the RB way. The RB has the injectors hard wired (through the same fuse as the ECU and ECCS relay) to the battery. I will run mine as the KA has them, through a 30A fuse and through the ignition switch ON position. So the ECU always has power, but the injectors are powered only when the ignition switch is on.
I believe this way is better than just powering the ECU from the F3(pin 1) power, which will only turn on when the ignition switch is on. And it's definitely better than running all injector, sensor, and ignition coil power through the original KA ECU power line, which is fused at only 7.5 A.
Let me know what you think.
Shane
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rbsileighty
- Posts: 1694
- Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 8:10 am
- Car: 92 S13 Hatch w/ RB20 & 05 Audi S4 Avant 6MT
I am not totally following you. You say F3 connector, and unfortunately, I don't know the proper names.
I do know that I ran the ECU power wire from the KA's ECU power wire. Note, there are two red power wires in the S14 white block (possibly this F3 connector you are speaking of) connector that contains the similar wires as the grey and brown plugs commonly refered to in the S13 install. Off the top of my head, I do not know what the pin out number is, but the one you do not want to use is the one that continues on to the ECU plug.
Just let me know when you are ready to start wiring. I will make a thread (hopefully with pictures) of how to wire everything into your car. We used the same lower KA harness method you are speaking of, which makes for a really clean install (look at pics here: http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....42642). I will try and do this either this weekend or next week if I have time.
I wouldn't change the fusing if I was you. Remember that if the system is holding too much amperage it will pop the 7.5 fuse faster than a 30. I did not change the routing of wires in Hybrid's setup. All of the wires needed to correctly run the RB's engine harness are connected through the KA's chassis harnesses. I did notice the injectors have their own power wire running to the computer, but remember the wiring inside the computer has some way of correctly routing this power, so I wouldn't mess with it. I am sure the ECU has it's own power source and distributes it accordingly where and when it needs to do so, through different resistors and such. The injectors may require an outside power supply that is suplimental to the main power. I am sure the EE's working on this computer had it wired the way it was for a reason. I am an ME with a little EE knowledge, but on something as complex as a computer system I am sure the Nissan EE's and CE's know a lot more than me.
Again, I will try and put together something on our wiring, and you can use it as you please. Hope this helps.
I do know that I ran the ECU power wire from the KA's ECU power wire. Note, there are two red power wires in the S14 white block (possibly this F3 connector you are speaking of) connector that contains the similar wires as the grey and brown plugs commonly refered to in the S13 install. Off the top of my head, I do not know what the pin out number is, but the one you do not want to use is the one that continues on to the ECU plug.
Just let me know when you are ready to start wiring. I will make a thread (hopefully with pictures) of how to wire everything into your car. We used the same lower KA harness method you are speaking of, which makes for a really clean install (look at pics here: http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....42642). I will try and do this either this weekend or next week if I have time.
I wouldn't change the fusing if I was you. Remember that if the system is holding too much amperage it will pop the 7.5 fuse faster than a 30. I did not change the routing of wires in Hybrid's setup. All of the wires needed to correctly run the RB's engine harness are connected through the KA's chassis harnesses. I did notice the injectors have their own power wire running to the computer, but remember the wiring inside the computer has some way of correctly routing this power, so I wouldn't mess with it. I am sure the ECU has it's own power source and distributes it accordingly where and when it needs to do so, through different resistors and such. The injectors may require an outside power supply that is suplimental to the main power. I am sure the EE's working on this computer had it wired the way it was for a reason. I am an ME with a little EE knowledge, but on something as complex as a computer system I am sure the Nissan EE's and CE's know a lot more than me.
Again, I will try and put together something on our wiring, and you can use it as you please. Hope this helps.
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rbsileighty
- Posts: 1694
- Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 8:10 am
- Car: 92 S13 Hatch w/ RB20 & 05 Audi S4 Avant 6MT
Hybrid and I had the same issue with the 20 gani. The downpipe (turbo elbo) did not clear the steering column. Even if we could have notched it to make it fit, we didn't like the idea of such a low clearance betweeen the two. Hybrid, the awesome welder he is, fabed up his own dp that has ample clearance between the dp and the steering column.
He did this welding together small angle cuts with some straight sections to create the bends out of his 3" aluminized steel tubing. Now he has a sweet 3" dp and test pipe that mate up to his 3" JIC stainless catback system. This same idea (possibly needing different angles in the bends) should work for your setup as well. Make sure the cast iron dp is heated up before you weld to it, so it won't crack from the instant heat shock from the welder (note: this steel dp was connected to a shortened/angled section of the old stock dp).
Hope this helps bud.
He did this welding together small angle cuts with some straight sections to create the bends out of his 3" aluminized steel tubing. Now he has a sweet 3" dp and test pipe that mate up to his 3" JIC stainless catback system. This same idea (possibly needing different angles in the bends) should work for your setup as well. Make sure the cast iron dp is heated up before you weld to it, so it won't crack from the instant heat shock from the welder (note: this steel dp was connected to a shortened/angled section of the old stock dp).
Hope this helps bud.
rbsileighty, did you check the pdf I posted? The F3 connector is the one you mentioned, the big white one. Maybe I was not clear about the ECU and injector power wiring...
On the KA, the ECU and ECCS relay are powered through a 7.5A fuse directly from the battery. The injectors and coil are powered through a 30A fuse through the ignition switch. Thus the ECU always has power (so it can do stuff like run the carbon canister purge, start the fuel pump a split second early, etc.). But the injectors and coil are powered up after the ignition switch is turned on. So the ECU power runs through F3(pin 17, red), and the injector/coil power runs through F3(pin 1, black/red).
On the RB, the ECU, ECCS relay, ignition coil relay, and injectors are all powered directly from the battery through 25A and 30A fuses. Although it may be necessary to power the ECU even when the engine is off, it is definitely not necessary to power the injectors and coil. Plus, if you try to use the KA wire that goes straight to the batter, you only have a 7.5A fuse! On the other hand, if you run the whole RB power off of the 30A fuse, the ECU will never have power when the ignition switch is off.
What I plan to do is to separate the ECU and ECCS relay wire from the injector power wire. I will run the ECU/ECCS relay wire as it is on the KA, thru the 7.5A fuse. The injectors and coil will run through the ignition switch and 30A fuse (the big black/red wire on the F3 plug). That way the ECU can have power when the ignition is off, and the injectors and coils can still have the benefit of a 30A fuse and heavier gauge wire.
I would also like to know how well Hybrid's DP hold up with time. It would be cool to use the stock turbine flange, but I do not trust welding mild steel to cast iron. I bought some 1/2" mild steel bar and 3" pipe to make up a new flange/DP. Now I need to find somewhere to get a bung for the O2 sensor.
Shane
On the KA, the ECU and ECCS relay are powered through a 7.5A fuse directly from the battery. The injectors and coil are powered through a 30A fuse through the ignition switch. Thus the ECU always has power (so it can do stuff like run the carbon canister purge, start the fuel pump a split second early, etc.). But the injectors and coil are powered up after the ignition switch is turned on. So the ECU power runs through F3(pin 17, red), and the injector/coil power runs through F3(pin 1, black/red).
On the RB, the ECU, ECCS relay, ignition coil relay, and injectors are all powered directly from the battery through 25A and 30A fuses. Although it may be necessary to power the ECU even when the engine is off, it is definitely not necessary to power the injectors and coil. Plus, if you try to use the KA wire that goes straight to the batter, you only have a 7.5A fuse! On the other hand, if you run the whole RB power off of the 30A fuse, the ECU will never have power when the ignition switch is off.
What I plan to do is to separate the ECU and ECCS relay wire from the injector power wire. I will run the ECU/ECCS relay wire as it is on the KA, thru the 7.5A fuse. The injectors and coil will run through the ignition switch and 30A fuse (the big black/red wire on the F3 plug). That way the ECU can have power when the ignition is off, and the injectors and coils can still have the benefit of a 30A fuse and heavier gauge wire.
I would also like to know how well Hybrid's DP hold up with time. It would be cool to use the stock turbine flange, but I do not trust welding mild steel to cast iron. I bought some 1/2" mild steel bar and 3" pipe to make up a new flange/DP. Now I need to find somewhere to get a bung for the O2 sensor.
Shane
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rbsileighty
- Posts: 1694
- Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 8:10 am
- Car: 92 S13 Hatch w/ RB20 & 05 Audi S4 Avant 6MT
One thing I learned from car stereo and physics is that small fuses are not bad. This is one of those bigger is not always better situations. If you run it the way we have it and start popping fuses, then I will say you are right.
We haven't had any problems with blown fuses so far, so I'd say we are doing a good job. After reading through your post again it might seem we are talking about the same thing. I ran the black/red stripe wire seporate from the ECU power wire. This is the same as you would for running an S13.
We will get pictures posted. Pictures will tell a lot more than writing this whole thing out.
As for the DP, welds are stronger usually the strongest link in this case, and the pipe has been doing very well. We will take some pics of it in a few months to show how it is doing. The motor has been pushed enough that it should have cracked if it was going to crack. Thermal expansion of the cast vs. the steal doesn't seem to be that significant of a difference to cause a problem.
We will eventually swap it out for a different flange, but it is in the works.
Great posts everyone. This stuff really makes me think. This is what makes good engineering great.
We haven't had any problems with blown fuses so far, so I'd say we are doing a good job. After reading through your post again it might seem we are talking about the same thing. I ran the black/red stripe wire seporate from the ECU power wire. This is the same as you would for running an S13.
We will get pictures posted. Pictures will tell a lot more than writing this whole thing out.
As for the DP, welds are stronger usually the strongest link in this case, and the pipe has been doing very well. We will take some pics of it in a few months to show how it is doing. The motor has been pushed enough that it should have cracked if it was going to crack. Thermal expansion of the cast vs. the steal doesn't seem to be that significant of a difference to cause a problem.
We will eventually swap it out for a different flange, but it is in the works.
Great posts everyone. This stuff really makes me think. This is what makes good engineering great.
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Shift_Down
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Nameless EJ6
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JustinStrife
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So how much would you pay for that tutorial??? Esp. since I've already posted a list of what needs to be done!
Get it here for the RB20 into the S14.
What more could you ask for except for pics of the actual plugs (which are in the pipes, btw, I just haven't posted them yet)?
I'll tell you what. If you live in southern Florida or somewhere on the California coast, you can send me the $$$ that you would be paying someone to do your wiring, and I will by a plane ticket and take a nice little vacation out of this snow and slush to come help you with it.
Shane
Get it here for the RB20 into the S14.
What more could you ask for except for pics of the actual plugs (which are in the pipes, btw, I just haven't posted them yet)?
I'll tell you what. If you live in southern Florida or somewhere on the California coast, you can send me the $$$ that you would be paying someone to do your wiring, and I will by a plane ticket and take a nice little vacation out of this snow and slush to come help you with it.
Shane