themadscientist wrote:The NB is sweet, looks like a naked chick

Agreed. I didn't realize the new Miata wasn't coming until 2016.

themadscientist wrote:The 1 series BMW is nice, but if it's not the M I don't want it and I cannot afford an M.

This is how I feel about every BMW.

When someone says 1 series, I think this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEvpnKRLDO4[/youtube]

I don't have 60 Gs laying around for a used car, though.

http://www.goo-net.com/usedcar/spread/g ... 17001.html

OMFG, listen to the blower whine!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFo9NOKmcrY[/youtube]

OriginalWheelman wrote:

themadscientist wrote:The 1 series BMW is nice, but if it's not the M I don't want it and I cannot afford an M.

This is how I feel about every BMW.

Funny, I'm exactly the other way around. BMW is the one brand that manages to defy my lust for power by doing everything else so right. Or at least WAS, as I'm not sure how their modern offerings rank in terms of driving pleasure. All I know is: I've never had a drive in a 328i I didn't enjoy, and that's not exactly a potent model. Sure, I'd prefer the M, but I'd be quite happy with a non-M. Same with the E39 (the pinacle of BMW excellence). I'd love an M, but I'd smile all day behind the wheel of a 540i, too. I'd smile just looking at those marvelous understated Bavarian proportions sitting in my driveway, for that matter.

As for the 1-series...it's a swing and a miss in my book. It's not small, but it's not big. It's a compact for average American buyers. Afraid to be actually compact but not nearly big enough to be actually useful. The pricetag is nonsense, doubly so for the M model. If I'm going to buy a car I can barely fit in, it sure as Hell isn't going to be an overpriced 2-door luxury sedan!

MinisterofDOOM wrote:
As for the 1-series...it's a swing and a miss in my book. It's not small, but it's not big. It's a compact for average American buyers. Afraid to be actually compact but not nearly big enough to be actually useful. The pricetag is nonsense, doubly so for the M model. If I'm going to buy a car I can barely fit in, it sure as Hell isn't going to be an overpriced 2-door luxury sedan!

Thats humorous to me since I really enjoy the 1. You're right about the size, being compact for the average American buyer, however, coming from a miata and other sport coupes/muscle cars, the size doesn't bother me at all. The driving experience is pure bliss, and that was driving the 128. The straight 6 pulls like crazy, the shifter feels fantastic, the handling is point, shoot, and go. Aside from leather appointments on the seat, steering wheel, and shift knob, it is much more spartan than any other BMW in the product line. I like it because it can be had without stupid nannies like the blind spot, navigation, fancy radio controls, heated cup holders, etc. Honestly, there isn't much luxury about it. The car reminds me of an upscale & refined 240sx, pretty simple and a blast to toss around.
You're spot on with the price though. Bought new, those cars are stupid expensive. Especially when only the M comes with a limited slip. Thats just silly.

Ha. Check this out:
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/oppore ... ewpcollins

themadscientist wrote:The 1 series BMW is nice, but if it's not the M I don't want it and I cannot afford an M. That. and I really want, for once in my life, to own a new car. There is nothing out there that excites me at a price I can afford except this. I'll beat on it when i rent one and see if it's got the things I'm looking for. If it doesn't I'll give up and finish setting up my FC.

I have a friend and former student with an 135i. It was delightful when he had it stock. He's since done mods to it this past year, and I just saw him with it at VIR this past weekend. it's now a beast (in a good way). I'd definitely consider owning one for DD commutation, but it's simply too small to be a family hauler. I kinda like the stealthy aspect to them

As far as S2K's. I've always liked them too, but what kept me from buying one when they were new was it's lack of low end grunt. That has not changed since they've become inexpensive to buy. The RX8 is also a delightful handling car, but also a bit lacking in low end torque. if I were buying a rotary engine car, I'd go with an FD RX-7 Turbo before an RX-8, despite the 8 being more practical. The FD RX-7 turbo is a special car.

As far as BRZ vs Miata, the answer is ....yes. Both are drivers car, and both put a smile on my face when I drive one. I'd probably lean toward the BRZ simply because it's a coupe. But if I were in the market for a vert, I might lean toward the zoom-zoom.

I'll say it again. I CAN"T AFFORD A BMW!

The 2 series is over 40Gs base; more than $10K more expensive. Also of note, it's ugly with a quirky interior.

I'll say it again. I WANT A NEW CAR!

If a used car would satisfy me, I'd get an S2000.

I looked at the current Roadster and on paper it makes sense. When I look at it, though, it doesn't excite me. It's an emotional thing, yes, but IMO if you are going to buy a new car, especially if you consider yourself a driver, it needs to excite you. I know there are those that won't get it and want to drive a spec sheet. I get that s*** all the time when people try to sell me on the current GT-R. It doesn't play here. If I don't feel a connection to a car, there's no point. The Roadster is a capable car at the same price point, but I'm not going to drag myself to it when the BRZ keeps dragging me to it against my will.

I have on three occasions stopped at a Toyota dealer when I saw they had an 86 and spent 30 minutes each time crawling over it, under it, in it, sat in both seats for extended periods fiddling with all the switches, moving the seats around, checking the trunk accoutrement and, yes, just sat in them with my hands on the wheels heel-toeing the pedals to check clearance, it's perfect. The numbers add up for me at this point in my life and the expectations I have right now so logically it makes sense, but I know love when I feel it. I have a ****in crush on this car.

I drive a rental one on the 26th. It's like a first date. The car would have to do a lot of bad things to change my mind on the all-day trip I have planned. I'll be driving highway, city, windy empty roads. It's a year old and well broken in so any squeaks and rattles should be evident by now. I might even pull it into the shop and get it up on the lift for an inspection too, see what's rusty, broken or leaking.

If everything still feels right I'm slipping a ring on this chicks finger.

They need to offer an RA BRZ in the states, i'd rock a caged vehicle on steelies any day.

MinisterofDOOM wrote: Same with the E39 (the pinacle of BMW excellence).

Anything pre-bangle has ALL of my yeps

MinisterofDOOM wrote: Same with the E39 (the pinacle of BMW excellence). I'd love an M, but I'd smile all day behind the wheel of a 540i, too. I'd smile just looking at those marvelous understated Bavarian proportions sitting in my driveway, for that matter.

With these exact thoughts in mind I (when looking for an E39 M) ended up with a fairly low mileage 540i in my driveway. The difference between the two is not enough to warrant spending twice as much on a used car especially when it's not my "fast" car.

As for the new 1/2, my dad started looking at them after driving my 540 so I decided to go have some build-your-own fun on the website. Not only is the base 228 $10k more than my dads current '13 GTI, but to get it with all the fun bits such as NAV and HIDs you end up with a $40k+ sticker ITS f*** MADNESS I tell ya.

dasoupdude wrote:Anything pre-bangle has ALL of my yeps

Bangles?

The only thing I wish my 540i had was a LSD. Other than that, once you get used to the failed VANOS sound it's really a sweet car...lol.

Sorry to perpetuate the BMW talk Mike...well not really but you know.

themadscientist wrote:

dasoupdude wrote:Anything pre-bangle has ALL of my yeps

Bangles?

Haven't rubbed one out to her in a long time! Throw back Thursday!

WDRacing wrote: Bangles?

Haven't rubbed one out to her in a long time! Throw back Thursday![/quote]



For extra points do it to the most recent picture..

Still not "monday."



Let us not forget, The Allnighter. Be sure to wash your hands when you are done, WD.

Mmmmmmmm

55 or not, still hot.

I had the chance to sit in a second gen Roadster the other day. I are dissapoint. The door was up against my elbow. It's so cramped inside it feels like a Suzuki Cappuccino. If I want a car I wear like a shoe, I'd get the Zuk. My purist feelings still reject the 86 on general principle only, not from a performance perspective, but the tendency for the 86 to oversteer versus the BRZ's understeer is more my style. I would rather have the tail swing out then have the nose plow to the outside. Additionally, I really like the BRZ's nose, but the 86's is pretty aggressive.

Back on topic. I rented a BRZ yesterday.

So, I am in the market for a new car. It started as an idea to reward myself if I can get a new, better job, but after my window shopping brought me to the Subaru BRZ it morphed into a real desire to own this car regardless of the outcome of the job search. I still want that job, though, so friggin call me!

Anyway. I spent the past month or so researching the car. I've studied brochures, checked recall lists, read and watched reviews and lurked forums. There have been some issues. Fuel pump chirping, a few blown engines, but IMO, considering it's a new model and a new engine, pretty damned little. Reviews applaud the car's manners and sporty character, but seem to universally crave more power. Most consider it a dealbreaker and, to be fair, Subaru really needs to step up and boost the little pancake motor. There are rumors that they are stealthily upgrading the drive train in preparation for "something," but peoples' patience is finite and they better start being more forthcoming about their intentions before they lose peoples' attention. Another engine related issue is the torque dip. There is a huge hole in the torque curve between 3K-5K and it pisses people off. As it should, IMO. I'm not sure how THAT passed muster in a development meeting.



So, I have a car here that seems to be what I have been waiting for. I have been complaining for years that there was no new car out there that met my desires. Let us not forget that personal preferences are just that, personal, individual, unique, code for PROBABLY NOT EX_f***_ACTLY LIKE YOURS! Yes, you have what you like, I have what I like and it's not a zero sum game. They can exist in the same world. It's not pass or fail and save for something that would actually endanger other drivers you should get what you like and I hope there's something out there for you. This is about what I want, but hopefully will provide some first-person experiences for you to consider if you were thinking about a BRZ or an 86 yourself.

First, Subaru has no test drive cars. That's bush, bush league, and if they were were men I would punch them in the face. One would think having an actual car to walk around, sit in and, duh, you know, drive, would be a no-brainer, but Subaru seems to disagree. Fail. I must say, though, my local Subaru dealer makes up for it with a salesman who goes the extra mile. Realizing that despite the fact that the scruffy gaijin doesn't look like the typical local car buyer, he is a customer and should be treated as such; he's going to do his best. After apologizing for not having so much as a showroom car, this smooth mofo says, "come to the employee parking lot" and he shows me his BRZ! One, this is great salesmanship, and two, seeing that the dealer gets high off his own supply is encouraging. For those of you with fast food experience, did you eat at the restaurant you worked at? I sure as hell didn't. If you know the car you sell is s*** you won't buy it yourself.

I liked the car. I already see why AWD was not going to work. Beyond the extra cost, the engine is too low and far back to work in AWD configuration. The build quality looked very good, and the car passed that stage of the investigation. Before I buy one, though, I need to drive one. The proof is in the driving. I confirmed the other Subaru dealers on island also don't have cars and I reminded them how stupid and ill-advised that is. Again, though, the Naha dealer took me out to the back lot and let me check out a used car they were prepping for delivery. It was 2012 and still looked brand new and everything was in place.

I still wanted to drive one so I took advantage of the recent Toyota show and the test 86 they had. It was a short squirt around Ginowan. The dealer commented that I didn't stall it which I found weird. He said over half the people that day had stalled it trying to work the clutch. I explained that my daily is a bitchy RX7 with a twin plate, but, yes, this clutch pedal felt like s*** so that's why people were stalling it. The clutch feels like it's working against a rubber band. I'm told that removing the spring at the top will make it feel more "proper." The shifter, however, wow. They make a short shifter for it, but I don't see how it could get much shorter. You can run up through the the gears with your index finger!

The seat felt tight on my right side, like the bolster had been bent in, but overall the ergos were good. I was chatting with the dealer and my wife, not really paying more attention to driving than necessary, still more than most people these days, texting, eating and beating their unsecured kids, but less than normal for me. The dealer says "turn here" at the last minute and without so much as a how do you do I pulled a smooth heel-toe downshift and whip it around the corner smooth as silk. That was significant. i wasn't thinking about that, I'd been in the car for about two minutes and we already clicked and operated like a team. Next test passed. I must seek out a rental car to wring out.

I found a rental company that had a BRZ. We picked it up and brought it to the casa for my initial walk around. First, IMO, this car is sexy as f***. It doesn't have a bad angle in my eyes. I must have a car I find beautiful and this car is to me. Box checked.





This is an S, the top level model so you get the leather wheel and shift knob with red stitching everywhere. I have always liked baseball stitching on interiors. It's sort of 80's and neavu riche, but f*** it, I like it. The controls are all where they should be. The e-brake is right by the shifter if you are the kind of fella who sees that as more than a parking device and a bit more like a fighter jet control stick. I are one of those guys. There is one of those start buttons that are all the rage. My wife's Mini has that, I'm over it. The tach is in the center where, I suggest, is the proper place in a sports car. The speedo is off to the side and runs up to 260KPH. Can the car? I don't know.

First test, highway driving. I put it up on the expressway and put the hammer down. It's not exactly a sledgehammer, let's be honest, but it's not a brad hammer either. More like a ball peen, the peen end. Why that end? The torque dip is real, folks. Holy s*** is it obvious and you will have to learn to drive around it or you are going to be upset. I took note of the dead area and checked the graph this morning and yup, spot on what I could feel. Don't try to do anything between 3500-4500. Downshift into the mid 2000s and accelerate through the torque black hole to achieve joy. You can feel the dip on the way through, yes, but if you are passing through it, it's manageable. If you start anywhere in it, however, it's DOA. I came up with a metaphor that I feels best illustrates the feel of it. Image you have a turbo car with a big laggy exhaust housing. It takes time to wind up and you can feel it coming, BUT, when it spools, it's still not that impressive. It's like a TD05 with a 16cm housing laggy build up to 200hp at full boost.

I pulled over into the parking area to write down my observations, take more glam shots and to listen to the engine.
No fuel pump chirping, just the steady ticking of injectors. Kind of sounds like a sewing machine.

http://vid119.photobucket.com/albums/o1 ... rorgvv.mp4






That, is the sound generator. Yes, this engine idles and revs very quietly. Surprisingly, I really don't mind not hearing it. The exhaust is whisper quiet as well and that, too, is ok with me. Subaru, though, seems to have harbored some embarrassment about not having an engine noise you could hear in the car and I understand that concern, but I find their solution to be gay as f***. I don't mean homosexual gay, at least they are proud and fun fellas. I mean closeted, conservative, jerking off to Abercrombie catalogs and then beating up gays guys because you hate yourself gay . Subaru takes intake noises, runs a pipe to a resonator that then runs to a hole under the dashboard so you can hear, something.



Cruising at 100kph in 6th I'm steady at 2500rpms. This is great for gas mileage if you care about that and despite my ownership of a slutty rotary I actually care about that too. It's also good because you are outside the dip and can accelerate directly from there if you would "like" to go faster, slide it down into 5th if you "want" to go faster or whip it over and down into 4th if nothing but angry naked, nipple-twisting thrusting screaming acceleration will do. The car will not scare you, but it takes off with purpose and it will make you think "weee!" and a goofy smile will cross your face. Wind noise is present, but it's not too bad for a car in this price range and you have to think to listen for it; it's not pronounced. The homotube works; you can hear stuff as you wind the engine up.

The suspension is firm, but not stiff and felt very confident at highway speeds. I ran it up to the upper reaches of the speedo and it was composed all the way through the gears and didn't start to feel floaty until north of 100 mph. Now, some would consider this bad, but let's be honest. To make a car that can keep it's cool at those speeds, barring very expensive active suspension would lead to a car that was a torture rack in town. I know, I own one. My RX7 sails along at hyper speed just whistling a happy buuuuurrrrrr, but rolling down 58, all exits lead to a chiropractor.

At this point I'm starting to form an idea of this car's mission statement which I will wrap up with in a later post.

Rolling through Nago I get to the second phase of this test, in town driving. First a stop at A&W for some munchies.



On the drive through the city I didn't avoid rough spots. I went over them on purpose and am pleased to say that, yes, you get a bit of a thump, more than a luxury car or even an econobox people mover, but it's far from punishing. It's not "damn!" it's more like, "hey, there was a bump there." An 80's portable CD player would skip and you should have the top on your starbucks, but that's about it and the seats are firm, but soft enough that you are not uncomfortable. Ah yes, the seats. That right side bolster is a no-go. I would spend the entire f*** day squirming around trying to contort myself around it to no avail. It really feels like it was bent by accident, but I have sat in several different 86s and now this BRZ so I can confirm, this is the seat's intended shape. I can't figure out why the left side didn't bother me at all while the right was poking my ribcage and making my torso rotate 2 degrees to the left of straight ahead. I'm chubby, but not fat and I fit in the seat great everywhere else. I may just have a wide back or something. IT'S NOT A TUMOR! I think if I skinned the seat, put a prybar in that side and bent the bar out about a half inch it would be absolutely perfect. i would be willing to do that to a brand new car if that is all I find wrong with it. I drive on up to my little postage stamp of land for more centerfold spreads.





I can't say enough about how pretty this car is to me. I've been trying to nail down which color I prefer. I know I definitely don't like silver or the dark blue, but white, black and red are great, but for me, if I had a Subaru, it must be world rally blue which this car is. I liked it best in the brochures and I love it standing next to it.

Time to go over the top of the island and run some windy roads! That's what we all came here to see, right?

This car doesn't sweat. I started off easy. Hey, it's not my car, I'm still feeling it out and I haven't really done spirited driving in years. By the time I made it up to Hedo any uncertainty I had was gone. The car and I were plugged in, it was talking to me and I was starting to understand what it was saying. Every corner was getting faster, braking was coming later, power was being tapped earlier on exit, I was getting better and better at juking around the torque curve. Pause to take some more p0rn pics and take a piss. WTF happened to the restaurant up there? I have been out of circulation a long time.





Time to head back down the other side. The intro class was over, it was time for the exam. I won't say I was pushing as hard as I could. I won't say that I was pushing the car as hard as it could go. Let's just say if you drove a Toyota Aqua or whatever the base rental cars are the same way, Sky would have had to dispatch a tow truck and an ambulance. Those roads on the east side are pure corner p0rn! I know the guys that run that route regular are probably bored and snorting derisively, but think about the first time you ran them at double, sometimes triple the posted limit, banging your shifts at the right times, picking the good apexes and being rewarded with fast exits and good setups for the next, oh wait, this one is even better than the last one! You know how much fun I was having.

Yes, I understood this car very well now. I could look ahead and know exactly what gear that was going to take, ease it up a bit because it's a new road and I don't know it, after the end shows itself, speed up to what it will require and set up for the next. At no time did I feel the car was anywhere near its limit. It patiently waited for my command, did it exactly like I wanted, better than I expected and seemed to hope my next request would be more of a challenge. I was dead quiet, breathing in a regimented and deliberate fashion, scanning mechanically and 100% focused on what I was doing. The car was yawning and doing it's nails between control inputs. It's like I was the virgin and the car was a $3000 a night escort doing her best to humor me as I clumsily thrust my little pecker in her all wrong. As I pulled into the Lawson south of Schwab to unwind and replenish my electrolytes from all the clumsy sex I took another pic of the "girlfriend" I rented, because I had fallen in love with a prostitute and I didn't care who couldn't understand our love.



Then the RX8 drove by.

Now, the RX8 appeals to me for two reasons.

One, it's a rotary. I like rotaries. I "get" rotaries. I understand why some people don't like them. Most of those people don't have legitimate reasons to hate them, they just have an unjustified, uninformed herd-thought inspired and supported opinion and it's stupid, like them. Some have considered, informed reasons why they don't like them and their points are valid. There are some characteristics of that engine that are unappealing and there's no way around it. You have to accept them if you are to be happy with a rotary. I am one of those strange birds who will so I happen to love the little spinny triangle motors. The RX8 has one, good.

Two. All reviews praise the handling of these cars. Some have compared it to an FD which is a very good handling car. I have an FC. I love my FC, but the FC is a big broadsword where the FD is a razor sharp Katana. Both will cut you, but where the FC requires a wide cleaving stroke, the FD whispers through the flesh with the flick of a wrist. I don't mind the unsophisticated "hold the f*** on" way around a corner, but it would be nice to try lacing through them smoothly, for once. I'm not getting an FD so the idea that the RX8 has similar capability is very appealing.

The RX8, is, unfortunately, ONE OF THE BUTT UGLIEST CARS I HAVE EVER LAID EYES ON! So, sadly, there's no way I would buy one. One auto reviewer put my feeling into words perfectly when he said "I respect the RX8, but I don't love it." Now, here I am, standing next to a car that I love and respect, both having been earned today and there goes the car that that same reviewer said had the power that the BRZ was missing. I felt a stirring in my loins. I looked at BRZ and BRZ was already cracking it's knuckles and loosening up for battle.

How cool would this be if it happened? What are the chances the road would open up to allow it? What are the chances the 8 driver would want to go? I didn't know, but I was going to find out. I jumped in the car and gave chase. As we went south the cars thinned out and I got closer to the 8 and people got out of his way. We came around the sweeper at Ginoza up to the light before the expressway entrance and the car in front of him turned left. There he was at the light and I was right behind him.

The light went green and we both eased off. I surged up and I saw puffs of smoke burst from his pipes and we tore through second and were about to grab our third gears when traffic ahead stopped us. So close! Indeed, so close; he didn't pull away from me an inch on that short blast. Certainly not definitive, but still fun as hell. We continued south and as we got to the north end of the bridge leading into Kin I hope it was clear because he had one car in front of him and the movement of the 8 suggested he would go for the pass. The road swept right and slowly the bridge became visible. As soon as I saw it was empty across it's entire length I slotted the car down a gear and wound up the little boxer and I could see he was getting ready make the pass. as he moved to the right I nailed the gas.

His mufflers puffed a split second later and we were off. If he had waited a second later I would have had to hit the brakes. Yes, that equates to a head start, and?

We took it through a full gear and upshifted and I was balls deep in his a** and he couldn't do anything about it, but stare at the rice bags he was face down on and feel that 2.0 d!ck f*** him. I let off and saluted him in his rear view mirror. I didn't want to be an ***hole about it. I was grateful he was willing to play and I felt he had nothing to be ashamed of. I said out loud "underpowered, eh? Not if you drive it right." I couldn't have hoped for a more delicious frosting to the cake I had been eating all day. I took it easy on the way down to Royal and screwed around a little. I DID NOT screw around on Takoyama. That road has hurt me once before.





Conclusion:

On paper it is my belief that Subaru's objectives were to build a car that was really really good, but not great. They wanted it to be very balanced in the sense that it would do everything as well as it could without sacrificing that overall balance to be able to do one thing a little better. They wanted a solid, but blank sheet of paper for the owner to embellish as they see fit. After spending a day with the car and giving it a test drive that would make a car dealer need a fistful of Prozac and a stiff drink I can say with confidence that I have looked into this car's eyes and seen a machine I can work with. If Subaru was, in fact, trying to do what I think they were, they did it.

This car is pretty. This car is solidly built. This car is reasonably spacious for its size and the interior, save for the seat issue, which may really just be a problem I have, is a darned nice place to live and work in. The car is low slung and firmly planted to the road. The suspension is firm, but not hostile and works very well in most any setting. The brakes are understated, but strong, linear and showed no signs of being overworked all day. The engine is sort of boring, quiet with enough power, but no more than that. Yes, the car would be better with more power and yes, the torque dip should have been ironed out before the car was launched and definitely after three years of production, but I had a theory that if properly driven it could be worked around and I have tested the theory in the real world in all arenas save for a straight up drag race which I think would go badly as that is 100% in the car's blind spot, power.

Other than that, what you have here is the automotive equivalent of a Swiss army knife. It can do so many things and do them very well. It only comes up wanting when you try to step outside of the balance and do something more specialized, something that can only come at the expense of other things. Much like I wouldn't use my SAK to chop down a tree, nor would I ask a BRZ to lay claim to Mizugama on a Sunday night. Realistically, though, how often am I chopping down trees? How much use does my ax get? How often do I need to turn a screw, cut some rope, etc, though? Answer, all the time. How often do I make a long trip up north to attack windy roads? I'll let Koop answer that.

More to the point, how often am I going to work and happen to be on a short strip of road all by myself without adult supervision? Yeah, exactly, all the f*** time. Take a guess why I turbocharged and raced up a kei truck. Yeah, that meets my real world needs. I beat that little thing like a stepchild every day and it's never part of a plan, just "spirited driving of opportunity." I love my "race cars," but bringing them out requires planning, scheduling and back up plans for when they blow up. As much as I want to be 1000hp GT-R guy, I'm not. I'm bone stock BRZ guy with a broken GT-R.

Subaru, we will be talking very soon.

I love it! Thanks for the story Mike. It made my Thanksgiving day that much better.

Well done writeup!

For some reason my brain read parts of that in Jeremy Clarkson's voice

I'm a bit like all three. I have the nerdiness and nostalgia of May, the quirkiness and emotional attachment to the vehicles of Hammond, but when I'm actually driving, it's all Clarkson.

you could probably do your own show


"TMS GEAR"


I'd watch it..

He'd have to clean up the act a bit for TV tho... :/ I'm not sure it would translate well.