I am about to give up

[Romeo5k]

Ok.. i have a 1993 q45. Replaced the fuel pump, starter, and battery 6 mos ago. I had my car customed with rims and music, so it looked good. Well 2 weeks ago, i decided to downgrad everything back to factory xcept for radio. And now car shakes. And i mean.. shakes hard. Pop the hood, and the engine is shaking too. Go to mufler, no smoke, but its puffing like it is. All u here is... puff -puff-puff-puff-puff not like a regular car tha idles like 1puff or if there is a puff. You press on the gass and if u listen to the engine, it sounds like,,, vrrroom vrooomvrrrrooom till it hits maybe second gear or third.. and it sounds like it stopped. Put the car in reverse and it puffing in the exausht and shaking on the inside. .Well i get upset and take it to dealer.. They put it on a machine for 125$. They said it was the the #3 spark plug coil. Of course i didnt let them do it.. they said 800$ - 1000. So i took it to my mechanic and had him do it for 200$ In the proccess.. i got all 3 belts changed just in case that may cause it.. And changed all 4 brakes because... i dont know.. just because. I paid like 550$ in total. Problem still not fixed.. car still puffing onthing that coil diod was make my car start bettter and stop slipping badly on 2nd gear. i call dealer ship and told them they sucked. and asked what else to do, they said nothing. I said why they said because i have no service engine light on, and the computer wouldnt give codes. So i asked wat to do, They said wait till i get a service engine light. I told him to go to hell becuase by that time i would have ruined the motor. Then he says trouble shoout evrything it could be. Then i hung up on him because that like wat... another 3000$ +? So anyone have any ideas. *** Someone said one day i was idling for like 10 mins.. push the gas and he said a lil but not a lot, but a lilpurple smoke came out. Air filter is new too. any ideas??Ba
Modified by Romeo5k at 6:26 AM 7/26/2006

[goody90q45]

Have you ohmed your injectors? Two bad injectors will give symptoms as you've described. With no smoke in the exhaust that would be my guess. Takes about 5 minutes with a digital volt meter. Rule this out and then you can move on to other troubleshooting. Good luck.

[elwesso]

agreed with goody... Your #3 injector is proabbly shot (they did a power balance test.... hooray!). Coil packs rarely fail on older Qs...

Its possible you have more than one bad injector if its shaking as bad as you say......

[Romeo5k]

hmmm... ok thnx.. Well thats a start because i was planning on finding a new MAF meter. Im checking ALLDATA online to see if i can change injectors myself. Otherwise to the shop it is.

[elwesso]

you have to pull the intake off (silver spider looking thing on top of the motor) to get at the number 3 injector (3 and 5, both on the drivers side are the hardest to get at).....

If you ahvent replaced any of your hoses around and under the intake, youll probably want to take it to a shop to minimize frustration and hassle, because if the hoses are brittle and old youll probably break a bunch taking it off.....

[Romeo5k]

labor is saying anywhere from 3-4 hrs. Dang.! oh well... So what was the point of changing the #3 coil then. Shouldnt the dealership have known it couldnt be a coil?

[Q451990]

The dealership (if they ran the power balance test) only knows that cylinder 3 was not producing any power. At that point they made an assumption... Typically it's the injector, but it could be the coil pack or plug...

Heath

[Rex]

labor is saying anywhere from 3-4 hrs. Dang.! oh well... So what was the point of changing the #3 coil then. Shouldnt the dealership have known it couldnt be a coil?

You will find that few if any of the people currently employed at your local Infiniti dealership were around when the VH45DE was introduced and thus the knowledge base for the G50's (90-96 Q45's) is very small.

[qsiguy]

Don't forget it could also be the MAF plug. Mine will idle rough/stall/"puff" when the MAF plug is loose. Just start it and go wiggle the maf plug to see if idle changes. Could be that and wouldn't cost you a penny to find out. All it takes is a bump of the harness during normal maintenance, oil changes, engine cleaning, etc to mess it up.

[maxnix]

You will find that few if any of the people currently employed at your local Infiniti dealership were around when the VH45DE was introduced and thus the knowledge base for the G50's (90-96 Q45's) is very small.

Definintion: Senior Infiniti Technician = Technician who was trained in 1989 at introduction of G50 in 1989 and has worked on them continously since.

Probably less than 50 remaining in the US.

Always ask so you know to whom you are entrussting your car.

As native English speakers here, most of us know what a paragraph is, so don't be afraid to use one now and then.

No maintenance history makes it nigh impossible to diagnos multiple deferred maintenance issues. A maintenance history highlights what needs to be corrected before an accurate diagnosis can begin.

[bullittandy]

""As native English speakers here, most of us know what a paragraph is, so don't be afraid to use one now and then. "" By Maxnix

Are you serious/nuts?! Now you're insulting people based on their ethnicity?

[Romeo5k]

No reason to pay that any mind. Things like that.. You just look past. If anyone acts stupid, its probably because they are stupid. So why scoop down to one's stupid level and play the game of stupidity? So when one sees things like that, just !MEH the dam thing, and live ur life because he/she is.

[elwesso]

[Jeff Williams]

Romeo, have you ever changed the spark plugs? Are the plugs the NGK? If not, then buy a set of OEM plugs (about $60), and have them installed (About $150 in labor).

I went through the same symptoms with a crappy set of Bosch +4 Platinums. They just can't handle the lean fuel ratios the Q runs on. It burned the electrodes off of one plug. The technicians diagnosed a bad injector and a bad coil pack. I got a hunch, and pulled the plugs. What I saw was amazing. #5 had no tip left at all! The coil pack was thick with carbon, where the plug was firing against the cylinder head. The top pf the plug where it connected to the coil pack was gone as well. Once I got a set of NGK's in the car, it ran like new.

The next thing I would check is the MAF connections. When the car is running badly, open the hood and wiggle the Maf connector.

The MAF does not throw a CEL or code. It just makes the car run terrible. The guy at the dealership probably does not know this. In 1996, most all cars went to OBDII, which will throw a CEL for many more issues. The OBDI techs are getting harder to find, like maxnix said.

What maxnix was trying to get you to do is use paragraphs in your post, to help the readers. Sometimes, in these posts, it is virtually impossible to understand the writer's train of thought, expecially if they don't use any punctuation.

The other thing is just what you said in your last post, don't get offended on the Forum - no matter what is said. It just isn't worth the aggrivation. More than likely, the comment was not intended to be interpreted the way it was, and it becomes a huge misunderstanding.

[Romeo5k]

thnx for the advice. I think this weekend. Im about to take it to the shop and ask them how much it cost to take the manifold off so we can check the plugs and injectors and coil packs. About the paragraph thingy.. i understand. But the first one i wrote actually showed the way i felt at the time of writing it. Fustrated, tired and ****ty!! And i have no reason to get fustrated because it wont help me. Unless they are in my city and i know where in my city they are, im not gonna get upset. I got a bigger problem to get upset about.. This freaken car. Especially when no one can be ur friend and say " well lets take the manifold off and take a look." its more like, well im gonna charge you 200$ to do that. All im doing now is looking for a friendly mechanic. Those are hard to find where i stay.

[Romeo5k]

agreed with goody... Your #3 injector is proabbly shot (they did a power balance test.... hooray!). Coil packs rarely fail on older Qs... say......

Im trying to test the injectors myself and i cannot find a OHM tester and i dont even know the proper name. i went to oreilly auto parts and they dont know what im talking about. I am currently following what this site says: http://www.q45.org/ohminjectors.html hopefully i get an OHM.

[elwesso]

You can go to walmart and get a regular digital volt meter, thats what your looking for... auto parts stores may not have them.....

[Romeo5k]

elwesso.. just read something .. do u think all this could have been caused by ethanol.. And guess what my cxar stopped shaking.. dont ask me how and why.. but it did...

[elwesso]

Its possible, but i doubt it... if its stopped thats good for now, but dont be disappointed if (or probably when) it comes back!!

[Q45tech]

Concerns me that Infiniti dealers [and shops] in oxygenated areas, use to MTBE will not immediately correlate the change to ethanol with fuel injector failures...............coils always come to mind first if you never saw many injector failures.

[ScottJackson]

I wouldn't just casually offer to pull the intake and coil packs of a q45 for free, even if it was a good friend. A really really really good friend might get the job done on a nice cool day for some pizza, a movie, and some help for a bit on one of my cars. Even though the plenum looks simple and plain, it's a pain to take off and on. I've had a rough idle for a few months and knew what it probably was. I've done the plenum job before but only replaced one injector as I'm too poor to just put in all new ones. Now I have #2 injector completely open (no ohm reading), #8 injector at 240ohms, and #5 reading 60ohms. #5 can just sit where it is and misfire every now and then if that's his bag. The other two are getting swapped out today since the intake doesn't need to be pulled for those.I've been measuring the trans tunnel and engine bay of the Q and it's clear that a 460 ford with E4OD trans will fit (trans tunnel might take 1" of hammer massaging in two spots). Since the A/C compressor is shot and it's getting enough miles that the trans isn't engaging very fast when cold, the swap is pushing itself ever closer. I'll let y'all know when it becomes the Q87 (533" 460 stroker motor all ready to go except for intake gaskets and valves).

[Q45tech]

Please don't scare the other members! Hopefully the EPA doesn't confiscate the Q as a threat to national security and global warming.

Strange that someone from IOWA would complain about injectors could your farmers be any of the cause?

[ScottJackson]

Yep, I'm a farmer from Iowa. However, my dad and I don't grow any corn and we don't support the ethanol crap either. When we have farm gas delivered to our tank, they always deliver straight 87 octane (no ethanol). The farmers don't seem to be using the stuff but of course the ones that grow the corn are all for making everyone else use it. I just pulled 2 injectors out of my parts car Q and both ohmed over 100ohms. I guess they go bad just sitting in a car out in a field. They probably could smell the corn and figured they'd die before coming in contact with ethanol. I think I'll try those cheapie ebay $55 injectors, but only if they're rebuilt with new windings. I just gotta keep this car going for a bit longer while I finish up my steering/suspension mods to the bmw 540i. No emissions laws in this state. No inspections, nothing. I think the hardest part of the swap will be getting the Q steering pump mounted up to the 460 block. The 460 already has a serp. belt (2 belts so that should help getting one the right length in the end) and it also has a newer R134a A/C compressor. I don't know how I'm gonna get the Q heating/cooling to work with that as it's not a variable stroke compressor. Hmmmm. Even though it'll fit and I have most of the stuff to do it, I'm pretty sure I'll find something that'll make it impractical.

[Q45tech]

To my knowledge no one rebuilds 370cc injectors they just buy junk yard cores and clean them up and call them remanufactured...........if they meet the 10-14 ohm oem spec or are pretty close.

I have heard that farmers and business with their own fuel tanks are refusing ethanolized product....[Destroys tractors also]..........Serious problems with boat fuel tanks and outboard/inboard motors..........eats the fiberglass binder up and the tanks spring leaks..........the aluminium ones decompose the weld joints.

Eventually when everyone drive a 2008 model or newer their should be no more problems.

[Romeo5k]

well my car is in the shop today... Im going to get some pics of the work doing.. Anyway... i dont remember saying it earlier.. but i got #3 spark plug coil changde.. and the focker still kept shaking. So now, im getting all 8 spark plugs changed.. While taking out the spark plug coils... the guy said #1 and #2 had oil all over em.. I saw it.. he said aint supposed to be any oil .. #3(just now replaced was dry and #4 is dry as welll.. i havent asked about the rest. But the guy said that the Valve cover seal( i hope im calling it right) needed to be replaced. And also the intake manifold rings where super dry ... he said they were bound to break. Any other ideas.. Ill be at the shop if anyoine wants to respond.

[maxnix]

As a general rule, any plenum gasket needs to be replaced when the seal is borken. YOu don't want too chase vacuum leaks from hard gaskets not sealing correctly. Hard gaskets can also affect torque values when they don't compress.

You just need the RTV redone on the valve covers with new half moons.

[Jesda]

As native English speakers here, most of us know what a paragraph is, so don't be afraid to use one now and then.

[Romeo5k]

here goes. some pics.. i attached.... for anone who doesnt know how much work comes into changing plug on a Q
Modified by Romeo5k at 10:23 PM 8/25/2006

[maxnix]

Hope those lower intake runners get some rags in them soon.

Actually, since the plenum doesn't need to be removed for changing the plugs, I bet he is going after the knock sensors.

If he tells you this is the way to get to the plugs, be very afraid.

[Romeo5k]

nah he didnt touch nothing else.. Just the plate that covers the spark plug coil.. ( valve cover i think) not really sure of names. But he had to put some more sealant on there... He used a brand new tube. I was actually out there with the mechanics all day... so i can watch my stuff...and learn something..

But back to the convo he reaseled that cover.... And on the first pic.. U see those 8 round circles ( 4 in the front and 4 in the back) well, the mech removed the rubbers on all 8 and him and i cleaned out the metals rings under them. ( they come out). Now he is putting new rings in there.. Before i left he did kinda run into some trouble..

One of the hoses that goes onto the manifold sucked (he said) so he replaceing that. But thats it. Nothing else has been touched to my knowledge.. And actually i dont think he would wanna touch anything.. I think he actually hates my car... Keep in mind this is not a top of the line shop, but i trust the guy because he trouble shoots very well. He told me to do spark plugs when i toook coil off in the first place but dealer said.... nah it wouldnt be those.

But the book said to do spark plugs... 3.2 hours.. They took 3 days.. "DAM!!!!" thats all i can say
Modified by Romeo5k at 11:00 PM 8/25/2006