How would Nissan check the CVT ?

[Couz]

I have had my Rogue for a week now and like most here I am getting the slight vibration at about 1200 rpm going at about 35 to 40.

In manual transmission its the same feeling as being in too high a gear.

The first two days I experienced this I got worried so I brought it in to Nissan and the technician road tested it and said it may be something to check out so I'm bringing it in on wednesday morning.

Now I want to know what exactly are these guys gonna do to check if its normal or a defect in the CVT.

I've read they are not necessarily equiped to open these things up and fiddle with the CVT so I'm assuming they're just gonna plug in the computer and see if error codes come up.

Am I right ?

[Kash]

This issue (vibration between 1200 RPM ~ 1500 RPM) is a known issue. I too experience it and typically ignore it.

Please refer to the thread below.

zerothread/295532

Hope this helps

[Couz]

Yeah I know, I've even gotten used to it by now.

But Nissan still wants to check it and even the technician wanted to check it, he said he's not used to experiencing that vibration in Rogues so we'll see what happens.

I really just want to know what they're gonna do to further check the transmission ??

[kerrton]

Good question, I don't have the answer, my advice would be to ask this question to the service manager directly, and be persistent if he trys to avoid questions. They are a "service" department, so they should be very used to dealing with customers and providing information like this.

Please post back here when you get your car back and any details, it could help a lot of us out if for no other reason than for peace of mind.

[Couz]

Good question, I don't have the answer, my advice would be to ask this question to the service manager directly, and be persistent if he trys to avoid questions. They are a "service" department, so they should be very used to dealing with customers and providing information like this.

Please post back here when you get your car back and any details, it could help a lot of us out if for no other reason than for peace of mind.

I will definitely update....

The service manager is very helpful and doesn't seem like a guy that would avoid any questions.

The fact they want to make sure its nothing serious says alot about the dealership I'm dealing with...they could have easily just shrugged me off but they seem to want to make sure.

Again, from what I`ve read hear and heard its the CVT functioning normally but this particular technician maybe hasn`t experienced it unless someone points it out.

I had 4 friends test drive my Rogue and none felt anything unusual.

I just don`t want anything on the transmission touched unless it`s defective so i hope they`re just doing a computer diagnostic test to see of thyey get error codes.

If anyone still has an idea let me know...but I will ask the service manager before

[kerrton]

The CVT is a sealed unit, they definately won't be opening that up, even when the changed out my defective CVT they didn't even inspect the internal parts or check the fluid for iron filings, etc., they just ship it back to Nissan. So don't worry about them messing with it, they can't and won't for sure. They'll likely check the fluid, and probably phone a Nissan engineer to help with trouble-shooting or to get advice if this is normal. Or. maybe a more senior tech at the shop with more CVT experience will take over, but either way they won't be doing anything that could damage your car.

[Couz]

The CVT is a sealed unit, they definately won't be opening that up, even when the changed out my defective CVT they didn't even inspect the internal parts or check the fluid for iron filings, etc., they just ship it back to Nissan. So don't worry about them messing with it, they can't and won't for sure. They'll likely check the fluid, and probably phone a Nissan engineer to help with trouble-shooting or to get advice if this is normal. Or. maybe a more senior tech at the shop with more CVT experience will take over, but either way they won't be doing anything that could damage your car.

I'm very curious what they will do...

I had a strong feeling they wouldn't screw around with it so that's why I'm curious if they will use a computer to diagnose any issues.

Other than that I don't see much more happening than that or a few phone calls to "experts" with the CVT.

[Couz]

The CVT is a sealed unit, they definately won't be opening that up, even when the changed out my defective CVT they didn't even inspect the internal parts or check the fluid for iron filings, etc., they just ship it back to Nissan. So don't worry about them messing with it, they can't and won't for sure. They'll likely check the fluid, and probably phone a Nissan engineer to help with trouble-shooting or to get advice if this is normal. Or. maybe a more senior tech at the shop with more CVT experience will take over, but either way they won't be doing anything that could damage your car.

What was the issue with your previous CVT that required it to be changed?

And did both CVT's display the slight vibration that is common at 1200rpm and around 30 to 40 mph?

[philipa_240sx]

The low rpm vibration is well documented. It's entirely normal and is a function of the CVT programming.

Reason:

Nissan chose very high gearing during cruising for fuel efficiency. When driving under light load, the CVT selects a very high gear and locks the torque converter. However a 4cyl engine only fires every 180 deg of crank rotation.... which is less frequent than a V6 or V8. This results in more vibration which becomes even more noticeable under these conditions.

If you have ever driven a 4cyl manual transmission car, you can replicate the same vibration by selecting very high gears at low speeds.

I do not feel there are any issues affecting the longevity of the engine or transmission due to the CVT programming. Personally, I have gotten used to the CVT's behaviour and I never notice it.

As for CVT diagnoses, Kerrton explained it...

The CVT is a sealed unit. It's very complex and requires some very specialized tools to service them. Nissan Tech's can only do some basic diagnoses via the computer and change the fluid... that's it. If something is found wrong with the CVT, they simply replace it.

[Pescakl1]

If you have ever driven a 4cyl manual transmission car, you can replicate the same vibration by selecting very high gears at low speeds.

That is probably why I was never bothered by it.I really like this feature. Without it, I would not doing more than 30 mpg which is what I am doing right now (and it is not even summer yet).

Couz, You seem to have a nice and good dealer. Do you mind share his name?

From what I understand, he should sample the CVT fluid and analyze it to see if it is shot or not (already), and probably check if there are metal pieces in it which would show a premature wear.

[kerrton]

What was the issue with your previous CVT that required it to be changed?

And did both CVT's display the slight vibration that is common at 1200rpm and around 30 to 40 mph?

Couz, my CVT was replaced because it was defective from the factory, and a few others here have had the same problem. The symptom was the CVT rattle grinding noise which starts very soon after purchasing the vehicle. It is very obvious if you have a defect, and it becomes apparent very early on, so that is a good thing. If you don't hear any strange noises then you're fine, not to worry the CVT is built to last!!!

[Couz]

The low rpm vibration is well documented. It's entirely normal and is a function of the CVT programming.

Reason:

Nissan chose very high gearing during cruising for fuel efficiency. When driving under light load, the CVT selects a very high gear and locks the torque converter. However a 4cyl engine only fires every 180 deg of crank rotation.... which is less frequent than a V6 or V8. This results in more vibration which becomes even more noticeable under these conditions.

If you have ever driven a 4cyl manual transmission car, you can replicate the same vibration by selecting very high gears at low speeds.

I do not feel there are any issues affecting the longevity of the engine or transmission due to the CVT programming. Personally, I have gotten used to the CVT's behaviour and I never notice it.

As for CVT diagnoses, Kerrton explained it...

The CVT is a sealed unit. It's very complex and requires some very specialized tools to service them. Nissan Tech's can only do some basic diagnoses via the computer and change the fluid... that's it. If something is found wrong with the CVT, they simply replace it.

The fact I've gotten the same feedback from so many members here about the cvt behavior regarding the subtle vibrations reassures me big time...

if i didnt get this feedback id be extremely nervous and pissed...I mean the car is brand new 400 clicks on it.

and yes, it does feel exactly like being in too high a gear on a manual transmission.

other than that i love it, the pickup is great when i decide to step on it, its actually perfectly responsive.

i definitely am getting used to it and at this point i am not even sure i need to go to the dealership but i will just to make sure they know i follow through on service requirements for warranty etc...

again thanks guys for reassuring me, I get very stressed out about these things.

[Couz]

Thank

Couz, my CVT was replaced because it was defective from the factory, and a few others here have had the same problem. The symptom was the CVT rattle grinding noise which starts very soon after purchasing the vehicle. It is very obvious if you have a defect, and it becomes apparent very early on, so that is a good thing. If you don't hear any strange noises then you're fine, not to worry the CVT is built to last!!!

Thanks Kerton....I dont hear a thing and going on 500 clicks.

[Couz]

That is probably why I was never bothered by it.I really like this feature. Without it, I would not doing more than 30 mpg which is what I am doing right now (and it is not even summer yet).

Couz, You seem to have a nice and good dealer. Do you mind share his name?

From what I understand, he should sample the CVT fluid and analyze it to see if it is shot or not (already), and probably check if there are metal pieces in it which would show a premature wear.

The dealership I go to is Nissan Spinelli in Pointe Claire.

service manager is Chris Cerrone and he's very professional and friendly.

Returns my calls and stands by what he promises....he said he's call me back in two days after his technician road tested two other Rogues and he followed through....I thought for sure I'd have to be the one to call him back.

The technician was very cool too on the road test we went on, didn't just blow me off, and actually explained alot of the CVT behavior and the fact it takes getting used to.

He also does his homework and takes issues from clients seriously, he could have jusat said the vibes are normal but wants to bring it in to make 100% sure.

I like the fact its five minutes from my house too lol

I'll let you guys know what happens

[CPS]

Nissan is now setting up bulletins with part numbers for CVT parts. One is very recent, which is fluid pressure switches in the valve body that get replaced depending on the DTC code stored in the ECM. They also have valve body replacement part numbers. You still cannot get any of the CVT cone/belt/etc. components, nor anything that would require splitting the case. Your vehicle may apply to one of the bulletins, and if the code is stored, the technician will replace parts instead of the entire transmission.

[philipa_240sx]

Nissan is now setting up bulletins with part numbers for CVT parts. One is very recent, which is fluid pressure switches in the valve body that get replaced depending on the DTC code stored in the ECM. They also have valve body replacement part numbers. You still cannot get any of the CVT cone/belt/etc. components, nor anything that would require splitting the case. Your vehicle may apply to one of the bulletins, and if the code is stored, the technician will replace parts instead of the entire transmission.

See if you can get a copy of the bulletin. I have not seen anything posted yet from my various sources.

[Couz]

Well I dropped off my car this morning and I'm gonna get a call back this afternoon.

Service manager said they're gonna contact Nissan tech support to see if this is a normal issue with the CVT and road test it some more.

I suspect like most on here suggest they'll get an affirmative answer saying it is normal.

I'll give you guys full details when i get the car back later today.

[kerrton]

Nissan is now setting up bulletins with part numbers for CVT parts. One is very recent, which is fluid pressure switches in the valve body that get replaced depending on the DTC code stored in the ECM. They also have valve body replacement part numbers. You still cannot get any of the CVT cone/belt/etc. components, nor anything that would require splitting the case. Your vehicle may apply to one of the bulletins, and if the code is stored, the technician will replace parts instead of the entire transmission.

If this is true, I'd say it's really good news for the future, if something does go wrong with the CVT after warranty. I think it is complete crap for Nissan to manufacture an essentail powertrain component, which is also one of the most expensive components on the vehicle, implement the technology on basically all of their vehicles except heavy trucks, and then say "we don't service that part if it fails, we only replace the entire unit which costs around $5000". If they build these things, are convinced of their value and committed to the technology, they should support it by offering to service them when they are off warranty, provided the unit is not completely destroyed. While on warranty, they can replace all they want because I'm not paying, but for afterwards they should ensure all of the Service Tech's are trained to repair these and have the tools and manuals required to do so. If this doesn't happen, once millions of CVT vehicles get into higher mileage situations (as I hope to do within the next decade) there could be lots of angry people ditching their Nissans earlier than they'd planned. I'm sure the CVT is durable for the long term, but if and when things do wrong I need that peace of mind that it won't cost me 5 grand to fix. Repairs wouldn't be cheap either, but anything to bring that cost down would help my mindset and increase the enjoyability of the vehicle - I could drive it carefree and not worry so much about listening for odd noises that might be the first signs of an extremely expensive problem.

So I wonder what the chances are that my wishes will come true in the next few years - there are millions of CVT vehicles, it only would make sense to develop a way to service them.....

[CPS]

I work for a dealer, and I've ordered internal parts just today for one. There is a bulletin for certain codes that apply to an oil pressure switch and all the necessary bolts and seals to replace it. They also offer a valve body for the Maxima (which is what is in the shop now). You still cannot order anything that would require splitting the case. Reason is that certain preload must be attained on the bearings for the final drive section and it takes special tools and a lot of training to get it correct.

[philipa_240sx]

CPS,

This is the same information I am getting from my Nissan sources... actually from another Nissan/Infiniti Service Tech. The CVT cannot be disassembled as the tools needed to set the preload are way beyond what a normal tech can do. I understand the bearing preload itself is in excess of 600 lbs! It is probably wise of Nissan to not let their tech's mess with this stuff.

Kerrton,

Just to clarify, Nissan does not produce these transmissions. They are made by Jatco which is a separate company although Nissan does have part ownership. Jatco also merged with Mitsubishi Diamondmatic back in 2003 so they make most of their transmissions as well.

As for after warranty service and independent repair shops working on these transmissions, I can see that being a concern for some. But there are lots of other parts in modern cars nowadays that can only be serviced by dealers and thier suppliers. It's not necessarily deliberate, but it's a product of ever increasing complexity and technology.

You may be correct about Nissan owners 'abandoning' thier cars. I'm sure some of those early Murano owners have been in this situation... stuck with the problematic 1st generation CVT transmission and facing a $5000 repair bill because it's out of warranty. I honestly don't know what the answer is. Maybe Nissan should be offering some 'goodwill' warranties in specialized cases? Rebuilt transmissions at reduced cost? At some point every car owner faces this, an aging vehicle with ever increasing maintenance costs. If the CVT proves reliable enough (which I think it will) and the total cost of ownership does not increase, then Nissan will do fine. If not, they could end up with alot of unhappy customers.

[Couz]

Here's my update:

After a few calls made by techs and road test of two other new Rogues the subtle vibrations at 1200 rpm going 30-40 are completely normal and nothing to worry about.

So, basically what everyone was saying on here...perfectly normal.

Already practically used to this feature.

Thanks