How to remove 90 Q45 front engine gusset

[tangalora]

What's the easiest way to remove the front engine gusset (on the 90 Q45)?

a) Can the gussset be removed all by itself (preferred)?b) If not, can just the A/C compressor be removed first?c) Or, does the alternator have to go (then the A/C, then the gusset)?

[tangalora]

The instructions from page EM-11 (for oil pan R&R) of the 1990 Q45 FSM state (verbatim):

REMOVAL:1. Remove engine under cover.2. Drain engine oil.3. Remove fan coupling with fan.4. Remove the following parts:... All drive belts... Alternator... Air compressor... Engine gusset

Since the alternator removal & replacement is such a bear, I ask if the gusset can be removed all by itself?Or, at least if the A/C compressor can be removed without removing the alternator?

[pito11213]

the answer has got to be yes since most shops will remove the compressor first when trying to remove the alternator.

[3rd Q]

You can definitely remove the AC compressor w/out removing the alternator. Had to get the compressor out of the way when I replaced the alternator on one of my Qs.

[Q451990]

I have replace the alternator twice without removing the compressor. It can be done, but I had to have my dad (who has smaller hands) hold the back nut on the through bolt. The A/C compressor is connected by flex lines, but at 15 years old who knows how much they'll actually flex.

Hopefully you can remove it and secure it so as to not strain the flex lines more than necessary. I know that they removed my A/C compressor when my oil pan was replaced because we went round and round about them draining the oil and replacing it...

Heath

[tangalora]

I have replace the alternator twice without removing the compressor. It can be done

Thanks Heath and others for that key information.Your experience gives me the confidence to try the compressor (& leave the alt alone).

The tautology seems to be that there may be no reason to remove the alternator if the compressor (and the gusset it's attached to) is the prime objective (unless, of course, removal of the alt makes the compressor removal easier) ... but, if folks remove the compressor to get to the alternator, logic would conclude otherwise. Hence, the tautology.

There's a decent thread at http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=33024 (www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=33024) on compressor removal. Looks like one wicked bolt out of four (based on that thread).

Reading the 90 FSM, I noticed dire warnings in the HA-25 section, near diagram RHA265B, which specifically warn "Do not leave the compressor on its side or upside down for more than 10 minutes" (presumably due to oil drain out).

I'm (perhaps over) worried enough about safety (and being a rank amateur), even after reading that thread, may I still ask (what may be a stooopid question) ...Are there any specific "high pressure" hoses I should not disconnect on the compressor?

Ten minutes? I'm likely to have it dangling for 10 days!Are these warnings for real (or are they like the battery warnings where 99% of the time you can hook up the cables in any order & location you want as long as it connects pos to pos and neg to neg). It won't explode (most of the time).

[DAEDALUS]

Don't disconnect any of the AC lines and be very carefull with them. Any brackets that secure them down should be removed to give more play to minimize stress on the lines while you move the compressor out of the way.The gusset bracket is bolted to the side of the block. Not sure if you can get to all bolts with the alterntor there. Once you move the compressor you will find working on the alt quite a bit easier.

[elwesso]

on the 94s just so you know, both lines are rubber, even though there is a metal shield outside...

[tangalora]

Don't disconnect any of the AC lines.

This is good advice as I have not found any specific threads for the R&R of the Q45 front engine gusset per se. Everyone should therefore benefit from putting these admonitions onto paper.

Now, on to the R&R of the compressor itself (to make way for the gusset).

It appears (from alternator threads) the hardest bolt is the rear upper hinge bolt on the compressor, which I think I've located (see photo below). The front upper hinge bolt is also a bit hard to get to, but at least it can be seen from the front of the engine.

I'll be busy with affairs this weekend (not the least of which is Christmas shopping), but, I will try to sneak in as much as I can on this and try to keep you informed and, as always, spend the considerable time to add value so the next person who does the same job can just glide through following our documented footsteps.

I think the shot below shows the two compressor upper hinge bolts (please correct if I err).

[tangalora]

on the 94s just so you know, both lines are rubber, even though there is a metal shield outside...

This is a good clarification (for others to follow): - 90 models seems to have a thin metal line (high?) & a large rubber line (low?) - 94 models apparently uses rubber for both, with one of them (high?) shielded

Again, it's hard to tell either from looking at the compressor or from reading what little there is in the FSM for the compressor removal ... but, for clarity, here's a shot of what appears to be the compressor two lower bolts.

My assumption is a removal of the two upper hinge bolts and these two lower gusset bolts will allow the compressor to swing free (held in by the two hoses still attached at the rear of the compressor).

[tangalora]

Since the FSM states to remove the alt in order to remove the compressor in order to remove the front engine gusset ... the detailed summary below of a half-dozen relevant alternator-removal threads may be useful to the next person contemplating removal of the front engine gusset.

Tangalora

-----------------------------------------------------------------------1990 Infiniti Q45, Factory Shop Manual, page EL-26:REMOVAL1. Remove radiator shroud.2. Remove cooling fan.3. Drain approximately one liter of coolant. Then remove radiator upper hose.4. Remove alternator upper bracket5. Remove air conditioner pipe mounting bracket6. Remove idler pulley. Then remove belt.7. Remove the two power steering cooler pipe mounting screws.8. Remove alternator mounting bolt (through-bolt).9. Remove harness heat shroud by pulling alternator to radiator side.INSTALLATIONo Installation procedures is (sic) in reverse order of removal.-----------------------------------------------------------------------Infiniti Online Mechanic » 90 Q45 - Need alternator removal helphttp://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=52150(ww ... 2150)Heath:- I have R&R'd my alt twice without unbolting the compressor ...- remove the battery and radiator hose ...- I've never pulled the A/C compressor on a Q ...- If you remove the A/C - let it hang while you R&R the alt ...- Use superglue to hold the nut for the alternator cross bolt ...- It's a real pain to hold while you put the bolt back ...- I had to have a helper (with smaller hands) for that part ...natsoundup:- I second the superglue.... I don't see any other way ...- the battery and radiator hose have to go ...- I think removing the fan shroud also helps ...DrewQ45:- When I removed my alt, I had to go from underneath ...- removing the tension rod on the passenger side ...- then dropped the AC compressor leaving the lines attached ...DAEDALUS:- rotate the alt to clear mounting flanges from mounting brackets ...- once rotated enough, that alt can be pulled straight out ... - It's a frustrating job ...- front & rear alt mount flanges *tightly* sandwich the mount bracket ...- that's (I think) the same bracket the compressor is bolted to ...- You have to rotate the alt in place to clear the bracket ...- and then pull it forward ... - I prefer the A/C compressor out out of the way ...- just don't remove or stress the A/C freon lines ... - hang the A/C compressor with a stout cord and secure knot ...-----------------------------------------------------------------------Infiniti Online Mechanic » 94 Q Alternator Removalhttp://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=56358 (www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=56358)

MAXNIX (quoting [email protected]):- remove the battery and the battery tray ...- remove the fan, fan shroud, & all three belts ...- remove the pastic trim at the top front of the engine ...- tighten all accessible valve cover bolts ...- remove the fuel filter clamp bolt & extend the fuel filter upward ...- remove the front top left (shorter) bolt holding the alt housing ...- remove the front bottom right (longer) bolt ... - remove a self-locking nut on the alt backside ...- let that nut fall (probably onto the A/C compressor) ...- lift the alt upward (you may use a hammer or prybar) ...- wiggle the alt as far forward as possible ...- remove the alt harness connector on the back of the alt ...- remove two bolts on the back of the alt that hold a wire shield ...- pick up the self-locking nut that fell to the A/C compressor ...The installation procedure is the reverse order of removal.- The hardest thing is getting that self-locking nut back on ...- I used a long screw driver and some masking tape to hold the nut ... - An opening below the A/C compressor allows a view of the bolt ...- It will take time to get the threaded bolt to align with that nut ...- It took me about 10 hours to complete.

Qcentric:- Take out the battery, the fan, all belts ...- remove the two main bolts at the front of the alt ...- then the 2 small bolts that hold the heat shield on the back ...- (one of those 2 bolts in the back of the alt is pretty easy) ...- the other one in the back of the alt is a stinkin' little bolt ...- I messed around for 2 hours trying to get this little bolt out ...- otherwise it would have taken me only 3 hours for an alt R&R ...- I also took out the line retainer bolts surrounding the alt ...- both in front and under to allow some wiggle room ...- once you get everything off (loose for line retainers) ...- twist the alt and pull it forward as far as you can ...- then you can get underneath to see the little bolts in the back ...- The manual says to drain a liter of radiator ...- and then to take off the top radiator hose ...- I didn't do that but it would make getting it a bit easier ...

Chally:- Can't find another car that has a worse placed alternator ...- Make sure you remove the 3 bolts on the top mount of the head ...

Q45tech- Drop the compressor down & use a lift & only spend an hour ...-----------------------------------------------------------------------Infiniti Online Mechanic » Alternator connections?http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=1 ... efftrexler:- 1991 Q45 has an 8gauge bolt terminal- a 16gauge bolt terminal - and a plug style connector

Q45tech:- OEM alternators last at least 200,000 miles if kept clean - [road dirt removed so cooling airflow occurs] - and coupled to the correct battery [replaced every 2.5-3.0 years]- The pully reduction allows 34 amps at idle [1300 alternator rpm] - and more than 82 amps at 40 mph- and at least 105 amps at 75 mph (5,000 engine rpm = 2500 alt rpm)-----------------------------------------------------------------------Infiniti Online Mechanic » Alternator removal 95 Q45http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=26998(ww ... ?id=26998)

EWT:- I've gotten both front alternator bolts off so the alt loose- but I can't get the mounting ears clear of the bracket they straddle- The alt almost rotates clockwise enough to clear the bracket but not quite- I can't get it to rotate counter clockwise very much- There isn't enough room to pull the alt straight off either- Any suggestions from somebody who's replaced an alternator?

DAEDALUS:- carefully continue to try to forefully rotate the alternator. - Not sure if maybe it needs to rotate counter-clockwise - It's a chore, but it should come off. - The compressor, though, can be removed, but do that carefully- support its weight at all times (the metal lines are very thin)

EWT:- I got it to move enough eventually with persuasion from my pry bar. - Removing the back side bolt on the compressor must require a trick - There just isn't enough room to get a decent sized rachet or wrench on it. - I got my little rachetless rachet on it, but couldn't get it to budge -----------------------------------------------------------------------Infiniti Online Mechanic » Any tricks for Alternator R&R?http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=3 ... ?id=32401)

Need4Speed:- Just wondering the tricks to remov a 93 Q's Alternator?

forecast:- you need to pray to the gods of double-jointed fingers. - It's staight forward but insanely difficult due to tight spacings. - I'm seriously considering learning to swear in Japanesse - Disco the belts and the AC compressor. - Pull the two mounting bolts on the front of the alternator - (don't lose the nut to the thru bolt) - Slide the alternator forward - then disconnect the electrical connectors - and the two harness tie-down bolts (or break the harness clips)

Q45tech- The typical alternator life around Atlanta is 150-180k miles

fxjackso:- The service manual also recommends loosening the radiator. - Given how easy it is, why not just take the radiator out- That gives room to maneuver to remove the alternator

Jerry Parks:- How to get the through bolt nut back on without removing the compressor?

Q451990:- It can be done, but requires patience and really small hands- The A/C compressor has flex lines- so theoretically you can drop it w/o discharging it - One tip mentioned here is to super glue the nut on to the bracket

DAEDALUS:- Didn't work for me, but I used too thin a superglue. - Use something more robust that can stick to metal - and which dries pretty fast.

crubio:- Remove the radiator and pull the alt from the bottom.- Be sure to replace the battery as well.

Need4Speed:- Well the alternator is out....what a pain in the azz. - the "nut" did not drop out with the alt...so I'm on a search for it. - (I'm sure it sitting in there with the A/C.) - By far the worst part was the that stinking plastic clip - that clip is for the wire bundle attached to the rear of the alt- that clip did not want to release!- Time for removal.....2.5 hrs -----------------------------------------------------------------------

[tangalora]

The 90 Q45 front engine gusset has been removed.

For the next person removing the front engine gusset ... you do NOT have to disconnect anything on the rear of the alternator to remove the front engine gusset. Whew! Also, you do NOT need to disconnect the air conditioning compressor hoses.

The front engine gusset itself held 11 bolts; all of which were removed tonight (all in the cool dark of night as I was busy all day with errands).

Before I forget, here is a quickie front engine gusset removal procedure so that the next person has an easier time of it:

From the front of the engine, unbolt the alternator:a) Remove the 14mm lower alternator bolt b) Remove the 12mm upper alternator boltc) Remove the 12mm alt tension pulley bracket bolt (holding it to the gusset)

From the underside of the engine, unbolt the compressor:a) Remove the two 14mm vertical compressor bolts from the gussetb) Remove the one 14mm horizontal bolt at the compressor frontc) Remove the one 14mm horizontal bolt at the compressor rear

From the underside of the engine, unbolt the gusset:a) Remove the five 14mm bolts holding the gusset to the engineb) All but the top right bolt must be accessed from belowc) The top right gusset bolt can be accessed from the engine front

Hint: While the front engine gusset is a complicated shape, these last 5 gusset bolts are all in the same plane (see annotated photo).

[tangalora]

It may be important to note that while the alternator wires and compressor hoses remained connected, both had to be pushed and shoved about in order to access the many front engine gusset bolts.

[tangalora]

It was dark & windy by the time the front engine gusset came off.

Here, for the record, is a shot of the shape showing 11 bolt holes for those bolts that needed to be removed before the infamous gusset would relinquish its grip on the Q45 engine block.

[elwesso]

I think all of us are more than impressed...

I cant wait to make all of this into an article, with a myriad of pictures...

[tangalora]

... with a myriad of pictures ...

Speaking of pictures ... ... it's kinda' off topic but relevant for an upcoming summary ...

Ever since the new NICO (about 4 months or so) ...I've been struggling with one decision every single time I post ...

What size do you guys like your pictures?a) I snap them (with a Nikon CoolPix 5000) at a MB or two in disk sizeb) I shrink them drastically (which destroys a lot of clarity)c) Then I almost always edit them (to add topic points) before posting

It hurts me to shrink a detailed picture into oblivion but it must be done.The question is how much shrinking is just enough shrinking.

Basically:Q:Do you guys prefer tiny (400x533) or medium (640x480) or large (1600x1200) photos in these threads?

Note: My browser preferences shrinks them all to fit so it doesn't matter to me except that smaller photos lose detail & make bolts harder to see

[DAEDALUS]

640x480 at least! Even 800x600 would be good for me. 1000x750?

[tangalora]

Just after removing the A/C compressor bolts last evening, I found this "object".

Do you know what this nut was holding?

It was grubby (so it was probably near the engine block) yet the threads inside were clean, so, it wasn't just lodged in there from some previous job.

As soon as I remove a bolt or nut, I put it back in its rightful place.I don't ever remember consciously removing this funny-shaped nut.The shot below shows where it was found (directly under the engine front).

[tangalora]

Ooops. Forgot to post the edited photo which shows the fall line is somewhere on the engine block or near to it.

The only thing I can think of is it might be associated with one of the compressor or alternator "swing" bolts.

[tangalora]

Here's a closeup of the "gift" from my engine.

[DAEDALUS]

That's the nutplate on the back of the alternator that one of the long bolts threads into. It's been recommended that you secure it to the back of the alt with adhesive of some sort (don't gum up the threads!). Otherwise, you'll have to figure out how to hold the nutplate in place from the back while threading the fastener in. Possible, but difficult. That 90* bend is there to keep the plate form spinning while torquing the fastener.

[tangalora]

That's the nutplate on the back of the alternator that one of the long bolts threads into.

That makes sense.

I had just now finished looking back at the two thousand photos to see if I could find that nut on a part before it was removed.

Sure enough, here it is in the photo below, peeking out from above the compressor but at a time when all the compressor nuts were still in situ. (The camera sees "better" than we 'cause you can't easily get your head in there against the radiator.)

Since I only removed two alternator bolts, it must be that hard-to-put-back alternator long bolt nut everyone was speaking about in the threads listed above (which they adhered with cyanoacrylate & masking tape).

For the next person to note, you can easily spin out that alternator bolt and never even realize that this funny shaped nut is hiding somewhere on top of the compressor. Look for it as soon as you remove the alternator bolts so you don't lose it.