How to get better traction?

[Julio Bro!]

Hi:

I have a 1993 240SX SE with NISMO suspension and 205/60 Yokohama tires on the OEM 15" wheels. Sometimes I loose traction when accelerating halfway into a turn and I would like to improve that situation.

I'm not buying bigger wheels at this time, is there something I could do with the suspension/alignment? Better acceleration technique?

[nismofly]

better tires

dont just mash the throttle, slowly feed it in from about 1/2 way point

[onosqv]

probably cuz the yokohamas you have are crappy ones. Just get good tires, w/ a stock car, very hard to lose traction at speed unless you are trying, too.

Learn how to exit a corner properly and you won't slide out - that's just rwd for u .

A different alignment may help too.

I found some miata autox alignment setups online, and tweaked it a bit.

Slight toe-in in the rear helps w/ snap oversteer. slight toe out in the front helps w/ initial turn in. good amount of camber helps obviously. lots of pos caster in the front to balance out the toe and also helps w/ turning.

[McRussellPants]

Toe Out is stupid unless you don't plan on going over 50mph.

A) Get Not **** tires.B) 2.5F/1.5R Camber, 7 Caster. .15ish In Total Toe on both ends.C) Learn not to smash the gas in the middle of a corner unless you know whats gonna happen.

Done and done, Toe in will keep your tires from camber wearing, keep you from tramlining on every rut on the highway and generally feel better.

I got my "Mystery Alignment" fixed the other day.

4.6R / 3.8L Camber9 Caster1.6 Total Toe out.

My alingment guy and I both ROFLed.

Rear Remains a mystery alignment since Im too big of a cheap *** for links.

[onosqv]

Toe Out is stupid unless you don't plan on going over 50mph.

O really? stupid in terms of what?

The toe setting on a particular car becomes a tradeoff between the straight-line stability afforded by toe-in and the quick steering response promoted by toe-out. Nobody wants their street car to constantly wander over tar strips-the never-ending steering corrections required would drive anyone batty. But racers are willing to sacrifice a bit of stability on the straightaway for a sharper turn-in to the corners. So street cars are generally set up with toe-in, while race cars are often set up with toe-out.

Optimally the front is a balance between straight line stability (acheived with toe-in) versus quick steering response (acheived with toe-out).

I personally find driving w/ a lil toe out in the front just fine on the street... there's a little wandering, but that's mostly from having the car low...

Testing it @ autox (granted, most corners are not above 50mph... but still fast nonetheless), my latest alignment w/ toe out in the front (1/8" total I believe) and toe in in the rear (1/8" total also) made the car feel much more predictable and less "snap oversteer"... seemed to be more progressive instead of all of a sudden loosing traction... could be due to a variety of other things I've also changed, but I still feel my toe settings helped enormously.

Nearly all the road racing guys I've talked with prefer a toe out in front and toe in in the rear setup also...

1/8" out is conservative, personally feels better handling for me, and I am willing to sacrifice a little straight line control for control and responsiveness in the turns.

If you are gonna be worried about camber wearing... leave everything @ 0 toe, and 1 degree camber.

[Bronze MFP]

do you have a LSD? that might help some too.

[Julio Bro!]

OK guys, my tires are Yokohama ES100, which I think are very good for street performance purposes. Definitely wider would be better, but I just can't get them here at 15".

I don't know if I have the LSD differential, it's the OEM for the SE, I think it's the viscous one. I didn't mentioned before that I also have rear adjustable toe rods, for a better setup.

I like the advice on cornering and would like to apply some adjustment to my rear setup, front is fine for now.

So, gradual acceleration from halfway on, and what should I modify in the rear? I would like a moderate change since I don't do these things too frequently.

[McRussellPants]

The kid obviously isnt pimping his "Nismo Suspension" around a race track. Telling him to toe out would be stupid.

Toe out is will wear tires faster than any other alingment setting.

Toe out will make your car stupid darty on anything other than a glass smooth track. You think your cars darty from having your car low? UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH?

Toe it in and run whatever camber you want under 3.5 and you won't get any camber wear and won't be a dirty skank to drive on the street.

If your car is low then you'll really be bowing to the whims of your eccentrics. my rear toe is stupid in with a .3 thrust angle. it feels stupid. I'll prolly run .10 in on the rear and 2 - 2.25 camber once I get links.

[Julio Bro!]

So McRussellPants, you mean my only bet is to get wider tires?

[nismofly]

no, he was actually responding to brokeas about alignment specs, not to you about wider tires

youll find much better tires than es100 for not much more expensive

better beat wider tires any day

example, falken rt615's are going to run you probably $50 - $75 more for the set, if that, and be a large improvement

[Red coupe]

More then alignments or parts I think just practice and seat time would help.

I dont mean to sound like im putting you down but if your loosing traction in the rear,and cant feel if you have an LSD you might not be to the point of really needing to tune alignment specs and suspension set ups....

[crzycav86]

yeah. it sounds like you're reaching your grip threshold. don't accelerate as much through the turns, or slow down more before the turn. that's the easy fix.

if you want more grip, upgrade what you have. get lighter rims and better tires, get solid bushings, get a good alignment, put the car on a diet, etc..

[whiterps13]

some really good tires for the money are the khumo MX's. they are extreme summer performance tires, cost about $120 a piece, and grip like hell. i cant wait to put my new set on.

[McRussellPants]

RT615s are 120 Per

[Julio Bro!]

OK, get wider tires, check.

Better technique at curves...hmmm...learning? Well, I must say this is happening since I have the lower, stiffer suspension. Although I have a more controlled, it's been like a new behaviour taking curves.

Things to do:

* Slower getting in, progressive acceleration getting out.'

Any other technique advice?

[nismofly]

not wider, better, grippier

you have 205/60 es100

get 205/60 falken rt615 or something

you cant fit wider tires

[skydragoness]

I can vouch that a little toe-out on my car was not great for highway driving. I had to correct it way too much, as the car tended to wander a lot. Personally, i don't see it useful for a street-driven car.

Like everyone else said get better tires and the 240 will shine.

[onosqv]

I can vouch that a little toe-out on my car was not great for highway driving. I had to correct it way too much, as the car tended to wander a lot. Personally, i don't see it useful for a street-driven car.

Like everyone else said get better tires and the 240 will shine.

That's interesting... did you have enough positive caster to compensate?

Personally, I like my new setup better than when I had a little toe in... maybe i'm just stupid like mcrussell pants says anyone w/ toe out is...

previous setup:front: 5 degrees caster, 2 degrees camber, 1/8 total toe inrear: 2 camber, 0 toelowered approx 3.5"+ or so all around, just enough to scrape almost everywhere I go.

new setup:front: 6 degrees caster, 2 & 2.5 (damn alignment shop) degrees camber, 1/8 total toe outrear: 2 camber, 1/8 total toe inlowered to less than 3", slightly lower than sportlines.

turns feel 200% more solid @ the track & city driving. Much less snap oversteer... could also be the driver, who knows.

highway I usually drive between 70-90mph depending on traffic - noticed less wandering - I attribute this mostly to raising the car since I noticed it right after I raised it for a rally event and driving home (didn't get alignment yet... after the alignment, it felt even a bit better).

sure there's some wandering, but nothing more than I had w/ any of my previous alignments (experimented w/ different alignments every 3-6 months, toe-in, 0-toe, different caster, etc)...

sure, the inside of the front tires will wear a little bit now... however, I seem to be wearing the outside more so than the inside w/ my driving... again, my new setup seems to be evening this out for me personally w/ visual inspection of the tires.

*sorry for jacking this thread.

[sultan]

es100 is an old *** garbage tire, been around since 1999. meant as a cheap "performance" tire but grip is essentially non-existant. mismatched all season tires have more grip than es100.

better tires than es100falken azeni rt615, st115hankook rs2kumho mx, ecsta spt, the 711 is probably better toodunlop fm901, direzza dz101

[Julio Bro!]

...better tires than es100falken azeni rt615, st115hankook rs2kumho mx, ecsta spt, the 711 is probably better toodunlop fm901, direzza dz101

Hmmm...I'll check them out. I would like to indicate that I need summer tires, with good water drainage, do all these qualify? Any others that'll do better for my conditions?

[nismofly]

BFG KDW2BFG g-force sportAvon Tech M500

you have stock wheels im assuming?

[Julio Bro!]

Yes, the 15", 1993, 7 spoke classics. I thought they would've come on larger sizes, but I think no one did them.

[nismofly]

yeah, you can get like BFG KDW2 in 205/55/15 and be fine, since you need wet traction

or there are less expensive alternatives

[Eddie]

Any other technique advice?

Check out this website, http://www.turnfast.com . They have some helpful information on driving technique for road racing.

[SeVa-S13]

yeah, you can get like BFG KDW2 in 205/55/15 and be fine, since you need wet traction

or there are less expensive alternatives

Yeah, those are a bit pricey if I remember. I <3 FM901's for cheap street performance. Even converting non-car friends to them and ahven't heard anything but praise since.