how much power can i get out of my na ka

[lcs_96_240]

i am going to college after a long time off i am buying a s14 soon and i want more than the stock power. but i dont want to go as far as boosting the car. i want around 275 to 300hp i know that lot but i want to see if anybody can or has done it... and if so what were you mods

[-RJ-]

dont you read? You can barely get 200hp without boost. Bolt ons will maybe get you 150whp

[JDriftin23]

Yea thats not really possible. 200hp is a big goal for a n/a ka. If you really want that kind of power your gonna have to go with a turbo.

[liquid_cool]

There has been a kajillion post on this same question sire...and some with detaild info on the subject..what mods..different builds...use the search function and grow with us some..there is a bunmch of info there on N/A builds for the ka24de..and the ka24e.....maybe after reading the many post's out there..you might come up with an idea that might have been overlooked to reach this goal..

good luck

[dimedriver]

170 to 180hp should be relatively easy to get to.

Your going to need:CAT back exhaust (2.5 inch is ok)Headers (cheap OBX off ebay are fine)Cold air Intake.And here is the major thingA tuned ECU With a bigger MAF N60(Maxima) or N62(Z32).

The Tuned ECU is the key.

Beyond ~180 your going to need bigger injectors. The stocks are really only got for around 175 to 180hp.The timing advance with the tuned ECU is where most of the power comes from.

You should look in to getting a NISTUNE daughter card and consult cable.

Most of this stuff will be needed for a turbo setup anyway(MAF, injectors, daughter card). And you can learn about tuning more safely with the engine NA while your waiting and saving up money for a turbo setup.

And then there is ITB's but the KA is not really built to REV so they are not such a good idea. But if you could de-stroke the KA they would be awesome.

http://www.ermish-racing.com/510/ka2412.html <--230hp from a de-stroked KA.http://www.rebelloracing.com/enginebuild.htm <-- look at the bottom engine I think its a KA block with the L series head on it. The L series head does not flow anywhere near as well as the KA head.

-Avery

[breadbox]

If you built the block and head to handle it, You could carb a KA an maybe on a good day get 250whp. You will be dumping a lot of fuel through that setup though.

If you want 300whp with out boost, add more cylinders.

[lcs_96_240]

thanks for the info guys. i should of mentioned that my brother is graduating for sam. a school in houston know all around the drag racing scene for making big power out of pretty much anything... i am going to have him go through the motor port and polish and change the angles on the heads. i also am prolly going to run nos.. also ...

[dimedriver]

Can you brother also weld? If you get the head work done. You should weld up a new intake. http://sdsefi.com/techinta.htmThere are also equations to find optimal runner length.Talk with your bother and figurer out where you want the torque to peak. Then design an intake. These types of mods are usually the expense that most people are not willing to pay for.

Head work is very very expensive and most shops only specialize in the big 3's V8s(Chevy, Ford and Mopar).

If you can get head work for free. Build up the bottom end so the engine can rev a little higher. Then your going to need to learn how to tune the ECU. Check out hybridka.com for that.

Head work + a stout bottom end will make power. The only problem is it may not happen until you hit redline.

Should be a fun project if you go threw with it.

If your just going to use laughing gas don't worry about the head or the bottom end. Just get a few backup enagines from all the SR20 swappers. Swap and rebuild when you blow something up.

-Avery

[seang]

Speaking of a de-stroked ka24, South Africa's Nissan Hardbody 2000i already has a ka20de with a square 89mm bore and stroke. I have mentioned this about 5 times on this forum so far, no one has had anything to say about it
Modified by seang at 5:32 PM 8/4/2009

[seang]

Hardbody 2000i 16V SWB S/Cab

Model J07 Trim STD Drive train and Fuel Type 4 x 2 Petrol Engines Engine Code KA20DE Max power (kW @ r/min) 92 @ 5600 Max torque (Nm @ r/min) 174 @ 3200 Valve Configuration DOHC Displacement (cm3) 1998 Compression ratio 9,5:1 *Note, power and torque are not measured in HP and LB FT figures. The ka20de has 120hp and something like 137 lb ft of torque.*

[Razi]

Hmm, I've heard about this before.

I'm not sure if anyone has tried fitting it into a KA24 block though.

[seang]

Yeah, I don't know if the ka20 is even a fully counterweighted crank, it's powerband still looks like a ka24's. Some countries make engines with exactly 2 liters of discplacement because of tax reasons, so as far as a higher revving setup goes, I don't know enough about it. Maybe I will run across some more ka20 info someday.
Modified by seang at 5:31 PM 8/4/2009

[seang]

There has been a kajillion post on this same question

You can barely get 200hp without boost. Bolt ons will maybe get you 150whp

200hp is a big goal for a n/a ka.

All good points.

Dimedriver's links have tons of data.
Modified by seang at 2:10 AM 8/5/2009

[-RJ-]

i google KA20DE and came up with this

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl...um=11

i lol'd

[lcs_96_240]

i talked to my brother and we were taliking about building and intake with a shorter length because i want to start making power sooner around 4500. i think i may go ahead and destroke the bottom end i want to run BIG injectors 330 or something like that.. with a built bottom end destroke and custome intake i think ill be looking over 200 and a 75 wet shot will also help out... thanks for the info and ideas ill keep you guys updated on the build

[dimedriver]

It would be easier to build a destroked bottom end from the older L or Z engine blocks. The KA head bolts on. You will have to use the truck heads but thats not really a problem. The Z series timing cover fits on the L block and has the right shape for the truck KA heads. The L and Z engines had both fully counter wighted and half counter weighted cranks so look for the fully counter weighted ones. Also the stock L16 crank only has 5 bolts for the flywheel. Avoid that crank, there is a nissan comp part that has the same 6 bolt pattern as the KA if you want to go that short.

The only reason 200hp is considered the limit with a NA KA is no one is willing to spend the money needed to go beyond it. There are countless NA L18's and L20 in the 220hp range. This is without NOS, with lower displacement and a head that might flow half as well(only 2 valves). This also ends up being a very peaky engine. All the power is between 6k and 9k not streetable. Imagine turbo lag from hell. No power until you hit ~5500 or so and then it hits you like a ton of bricks. Also when comparing NA builds to turbo's the turbo will usually be cheaper per hp and probably last longer.

Do some searching for the Junk Yard cam swaps. There is pretty good write up on it somewhere. The combos that can be made with factory cams are not that bad. There is also a write up on getting to 170-180hp with just bolt ons, the ECU mods are the most important.

The factory intake is pretty good just remove the SCV's or upgrade to the ODBII intake. Its already tuned to bring the power on really low in the RPM range. If you want to move the torque down more in the rpm range you would need even longer runners. Shortening them moves the torque up in the rpm range.

You will find most of your improvements not noticeable until you get the ECU tuned for them.

Can you get E85 in your area? Great stuff but you will need huge injectors for it. It allows a lot of timing advance which makes theses engines really wake up.

-Avery

[seang]

Let's not forget about this one.zer...ifoldA prime example of someone who went all out on thier N/A ka24. Its a ka26de now with the stroker kit. I haven't heard much on this lately, so IDK if he still has it NA or what, but it hit 177 peak whp with 165lbft of torque starting at only 2500rpm. It was expensive, but who cares about money?

[Ajax]

Since you mentioned it... I haven't gotten much chance to even drive it lately. Winter will be busy doing some non-hp stuff, but I am hoping to get a custom header over the winter- OBX is crap with all this other work.

[dimedriver]

I looked up that intake.http://www.xcessivemanufacturi...tep=4

Xessive does not list intake runner length or cross sectional area. They don't even list what rpm range the intake will work most efficiently at. Flow tests are one thing. But they don't take into account the Helmholz resonator affect.

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/...s.pdf

If the manifold is capable of this effect you would see significant jump in torque when the engine entered the RPM range in which it was effective.

Also it would be listed on the manufactures page.Most manifolds will have a listing such as this."The runner design is ''tuned'' for peak torque around 3500 rpm on a 350-inch engine and it's ideal for power from off-idle to 5500 rpm. Dyno tests showed gains averaging 5+ ft/lbs. of torque from 3000 to 4500 rpm for more performance where your need it most." Edelbrock Performer EPS Vortec Manifold

Stroking is also going to limit your Redline. If the Xessive intake is a tuned runner design it is probably some where in the 8k to 9k RPM range. This range is most likely unreachable with the 2.6 crank.

If you look at stock dyno runs for the ka24de you will see a jump between 3500 and 4200. Thats the intake doing its thing. There the engine goes from 85% efficiency to above 90%. Most of the higher output L's hit that around 6 and the really highly strung engines will hit it in the 7 to 8 range.

You want to pick cams, springs, crank and intake that can all hit top efficacy in over lapping ranges.

Also Ajax,Who did your last dyno tuning? They made that torque curve nice and flat. Thats a great for driveablity and speed but tends to make it feel a little slower. Some people call it refined. Its only slower until you look at the speedo, then you think that didn't feel like 100mph. Its all about the area under the torque curve.

-Avery

[seang]

OBX is crap with all this other work.

x2, you can tune a custom header to exactly the right everything. maybe the OBX is great for a stocker, but a ka26de like yours would definitely be better off with a custom built header with carfully selected runner sizes and length. mmmm

...and like Dimedriver said about the Helmholz Effect, it rocks. Everyone should definitely read up on it.

Modified by seang at 3:31 PM 9/15/2009

Modified by seang at 3:37 PM 9/15/2009
Modified by seang at 3:43 PM 9/15/2009

[Ajax]

The Xcessive design is certainly not optimum, and in truth we had problems installing it, which have hopefully been addressed in subsequent casting. However, its dirt cheap and definitely cleaned up my engine bay. I've only seen one other KA manifold, which was over $900; mine cost @$600 including the Q45 TB and some other extras.Tuning was done by DJSpecPants (on NICO very rarely nowadays) at John Haley Motorsports.The stroker kit spins easily better than the stock crank- not much need to with the torque curve that it has, but I hit the 7500rpm limiter without worry.