How much longer...

[AZhitman]

...must we endure the idiocy of this entitlement-fostering hag?

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi ripped Republicans for pushing what she characterized as unfunded tax breaks for the wealthy while insisting that any further extension of unemployment benefits for lower-income Americans be paid for.

"This is so grossly unfair," she said. "Something is very wrong with this picture."

There it is in a nutshell - Opposition to simple economic accountability and a whiny sense of entitlement.

What's interesting is that within one breath, she promotes unfair and disparate treatment of 2 groups, then IMMEDIATELY turns and cries about unfair treatment of another group.

Consistency has never been a hallmark of these people - I'm just surprised it's on such gross display.

[telcoman]

...must we endure the idiocy of this entitlement-fostering hag?

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi ripped Republicans for pushing what she characterized as unfunded tax breaks for the wealthy while insisting that any further extension of unemployment benefits for lower-income Americans be paid for.

"This is so grossly unfair," she said. "Something is very wrong with this picture."

There it is in a nutshell - Opposition to simple economic accountability and a whiny sense of entitlement.

What's interesting is that within one breath, she promotes unfair and disparate treatment of 2 groups, then IMMEDIATELY turns and cries about unfair treatment of another group.

Consistency has never been a hallmark of these people - I'm just surprised it's on such gross display.

R U on crack?

It is not a winey sense of entitlement but what makes economic sense.

At least one person in Congress has some smarts.

I thought the GOP was for reducing debt and balanced budgets?
They increased the national debt with spending for two unpaid wars while giving tax cuts that did not increase job growth. The tax cuts did the opposite and put us in the hole we are now in.

President Clinton left us with a balanced budget and a budget surplus.

If you are so smart why don't you tell us how to reduce spending and what should be cut out of the national budget.

So I guess U are for increasing our national debt by 700 billion while giving tax cuts to the wealthest Americans?

Seems like fuzzy math to me.

Telcoman

[AZhitman]

So I guess U are for increasing our national debt by 700 billion while giving tax cuts to the wealthest Americans?

1) What tax cuts? I haven't proposed anyone be given a tax cut.

2) If you think $250K annually makes a family "wealthy", you're off your meds.

3) You think increasing unemployment benefits past 99 weeks is free?

CONSISTENCY. Either cut it all or cut nothing. Quit missing the point.

[stebo0728]

So I guess U are for increasing our national debt by 700 billion while giving tax cuts to the wealthest Americans?

I gotta tell ya, Im completely tired of hearing that argument, and "millionaires and billionaires", you guys sound like squeaky old toolbox wheels

Why is it so stinking hard for you libbies to understand that most jobs come from small business, and ALOT of small business income gets reported on individual tax returns, hence, increasing taxes for this sector of people effectively kills job fostering

And the fuzzy math is in your 700 billion figure, just because the tax cuts would mean you dont get that 700 billion, are you so hell bent on spending that 700 billion anyway regardless of whether you get the revenue or not?!? Just dont freaking spend it, if it doesnt come into the budget, it doesnt go back out of the budget, plain and simple!

[AZhitman]

Cut all the entitlement programs (start with unemployment) and then come back and whine.

Better yet, follow your Governor. He's got it nailed down.

[bigbadberry3]

250k seems like a pretty healthy income for a family IMO

[AZhitman]

Maybe, maybe not. In Southern California, with 3 kids, that'd put you in a ghetto neighborhood.

Regardless, it's not for anyone to judge - which is the point of me saying, Piss on her and her arbitrarily-obtained numbers.

[bigbadberry3]

Yeah and it'd be the same if you tried to live in the Hamptons on that too but 99% of Americans could easily suffice on that.

[stebo0728]

Maybe, maybe not. In Southern California, with 3 kids, that'd put you in a ghetto neighborhood.

Regardless, it's not for anyone to judge - which is the point of me saying, Piss on her and her arbitrarily-obtained numbers.

You really hit on it there as to what makes income based taxation so egregious. It sets the stage for so many abuses of economic liberty, for the sake of social progression. Consumption based tax is the only way to fairly tax a populous of such diverse make up as ours. This is what makes the FairTax so glorious, but we'll save the FairTax for another thread (i have created one already that explains the plan)

But your right, its no ones place to judge what another persons standard of living should or should not be, and I believe trying to do so goes against our very roots

[AZhitman]

Yeah and it'd be the same if you tried to live in the Hamptons on that too but 99% of Americans could easily suffice on that.

Again, you can't say that.

Not trying to be offensive, disrespectful, or anything of the sort, but a mortgage and kids and taxes and a car payment, even living reasonably, can decimate a good chunk of that pretty fast. Add in unexpected medical bills, maybe caring for an older parent in elder care, putting a kid through college, a bad business turn, etc and all of a sudden that $250K doesn't stretch as far.

*Realize that I totally agree on the one hand, though - I'm certain I could do JUST FINE on $250K, as that's nearly triple my income.

Point is, it's not our call, and I'd be uncomfortable discussing it. It's none of Botoxi's business. Perhaps she'd like to "get by" on $250K... How about it, Nancypants? Hook up them poor TAXPAYERS with some of YOUR income, since you think $250K is "more than sufficient".

[WDRacing]

Cut all the entitlement programs (start with unemployment) and then come back and whine.

Better yet, follow your Governor. He's got it nailed down.

Sounds great, won't happen, ever. Here's the problem with our Gov. Not only are we not going to increase taxes, we're going to extend UI. So we're adding to the deficit AND keeping the tax cuts. We're an entitled Nation of fools run by corrupt men and women that excel in nothing but telling the fools what they want to hear.

Why isn't anyone talking about the war anymore? Why isn't the media pointing to the obvious over spending and the correlation between that and being bankrupt. Because they are being used to exercise control over the fools that's why. It's so glaringly obvious that it goes unnoticed.

It doesn't matter what party of toolbags is holding the gavel, they're all full of lies. Obama could be the greatest POTUS in US history...he just lacks the balls to actually make change. He's just a voice piece at this point. His finagling with the Republicants isn't anything more then keeping up appearances. He's "reaching across the aisle" and being "bipartisan"...what a f*** joke. The Repubs will get their tax cuts for everyone, regardless of job creation or not, and the Dems will get UI extended indefinitely. Just wow...

[heliochrome85]

Cut all the entitlement programs (start with unemployment) and then come back and whine.

Better yet, follow your Governor. He's got it nailed down.

Sounds great, won't happen, ever. Here's the problem with our Gov. Not only are we not going to increase taxes, we're going to extend UI. So we're adding to the deficit AND keeping the tax cuts. We're an entitled Nation of fools run by corrupt men and women that excel in nothing but telling the fools what they want to hear.

Why isn't anyone talking about the war anymore? Why isn't the media pointing to the obvious over spending and the correlation between that and being bankrupt. Because they are being used to exercise control over the fools that's why. It's so glaringly obvious that it goes unnoticed.

It doesn't matter what party of toolbags is holding the gavel, they're all full of lies. Obama could be the greatest POTUS in US history...he just lacks the balls to actually make change. He's just a voice piece at this point. His finagling with the Republicants isn't anything more then keeping up appearances. He's "reaching across the aisle" and being "bipartisan"...what a motherf***ing joke. The Repubs will get their tax cuts for everyone, regardless of job creation or not, and the Dems will get UI extended indefinitely. Just wow...

truth

[AZhitman]

Can't argue with that.

The older I get, the more I tend towards policies of isolationism and abolition of 90% of all government programs. I'll find a way to survive if I can just keep the money I earn.

[bigbadberry3]

AZ, what government entities do you deem worthy and why?

[WDRacing]

For one, we could do with away with the entire Fed Gov and run everything at a state level. Remove 90% of the BS red tape problem from the jump. We're smart enough to restructure the details as we go. We could dissolve the Fed Gov within 6 months and turn this country back into the US of f*** A. We can be united without needing a damn Fed Gov to make BS blanket legislature. The idea was a good one, but we have blatant proof of failure. Our Fed Gov hasn't been about the people in years. I'm so friggin tired of hearing about whats best for the party. Are you f*** kidding me? We're making stands on f*** law based on what's best for the party...I can't believe that more people aren't utterly floored by how we govern ourselves.

WD

[AZhitman]

AZ, what governmoent entities do you deem worthy and why?

Quick knee-jerk answer: the DOT and the military. Everything else can be privatized or state-run or community-based or managed by the free market. Yes, everything.

Some will argue, and that's fine. It represents.a fundamental disagreement on the role of government.

[C-Kwik]

Maybe, maybe not. In Southern California, with 3 kids, that'd put you in a ghetto neighborhood.

Not even close. $250K would put someone in a fairly nice area of Socal and still have plenty of play money. Even at the peak of the housing bubble, one wouldn't end up in any place I would call a ghetto on that kind of salary.

[AZhitman]

Only if you spent beyond your means on the house.

Using standard debt-to-income ratios, $250K gives you a front-end ratio of $1667 monthly (principal, interest, real estate taxes and homeowners insurance should not exceed 28% of your gross monthly income).

Factor in a typical debt-to-income ratio (considering most people have some revolving debt), and that number might even drop a bit.

$1667 a month won't buy much in SoCal, even now.

[C-Kwik]

Check your math Greg. $1667 monthly is $20004/year. Divide that by 28 percent and you get $71,442 per year income.

On the other hand, 28 percent of 250K is 70000. Divide that by 12 and you have $5800/month to spend on housing. That is a substantial house. You'ld almost be up in the million dollar home range with that kind of income.

And if you want to play around with some numbers, I'll make it easier for ya:

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/houseaff ... fford.html

[WDRacing]

You don't argue math with Chano Greg, he's Asian

[AZhitman]

No kidding - How did I pooch that?

Perhaps the fact is, I'm just too damn frugal. Even with a $250K gross annual income, I wouldn't be looking at $800K houses.

My bad on the math.

[Eikon]

The problem is that a substantial number of $250k earners are the self-employed, farmers and individual business owners who have not incorporated. It's pretty easy to have $250k in income and still have a hard time paying your bills. Take away the tax cuts on those people and watch them cut employees to make up for it.

[AZhitman]

..and I still hold to my position that a family of 5 with $250K gross annual income shouldn't be anywhere near a million-dollar home, much less a half-million dollar one - especially if they have the debt that comes along with being a typical American family of 5.

That's what got half these knuckleheads into foreclosure in the first place.

And now that I think of it, no way in hell am I gonna let a mortgage seller tell me how much house I can theoretically "afford". That's just dumb.

[stebo0728]

The problem is that a substantial number of $250k earners are the self-employed, farmers and individual business owners who have not incorporated. It's pretty easy to have $250k in income and still have a hard time paying your bills. Take away the tax cuts on those people and watch them cut employees to make up for it.

Not to mention the 300k + small businesses that report on personal tax returns, and sit in this evil "top 1%" bracket that the left love to demonize, those "millionaires and billionaires" that hold the backbone of employment in this nation, they just keep getting pissed and crapped on more and more everyday but the progressive left who have these "tax breaks for the wealthies", and "millionaires and billionaires" talking points droned into their heads.

[heliochrome85]

all this talk of money, and we dont even have ONE JEW HERE?!?!

PAGING IBC! TO THE CALCULATOR STAT!

[Eikon]

I'm half Jew and pretty good with numbers.. especially related to personal finance.

[stebo0728]

all this talk of money, and we dont even have ONE JEW HERE?!?!

PAGING IBC! TO THE CALCULATOR STAT!

He'll be back next week, someone spilled bacon grease on his keyboard so he has to buy a new one...

[audtatious]

What's interesting is the top wage earners across the nation are generally in Dem strongholds.....yet the association is that Republicans are the ones who protect Big Business....which seems to be owned by the Dems?

lolz

[heliochrome85]

all this talk of money, and we dont even have ONE JEW HERE?!?!

PAGING IBC! TO THE CALCULATOR STAT!

He'll be back next week, someone spilled bacon grease on his keyboard so he has to buy a new one...

he got one on sale on black friday.



actually, its probably hannukah thats getting in the way.

[IBCoupe]

Again, you can't say that.

Being that 98% of Americans do get by on less than $250k/year, I'm not seeing why he can't. Now, I'm not in favor of demonizing the wealthy, but let's not pretend that they're victims of the system.

And, sorry, guys... being that they blocked NICO at work, I don't get on here as much. They didn't block NPR, so you can can see my comments on some of those stories if you look for the username. I should be easy to find (and then you'll learn my full name!).

What numbers need crunching?