How much boost will make the head lift.

[KEMP]

ok, so im on nistune, and still waiting to get dynoed, but i have create a base map, that is running 10.5 afrs on 22psi, it never goes any leaner, maybe 11 here or there.

i'm wondering how much boost can i run safely without breaking anything, i know the afrs will be fine, the main question is as long as the afrs are rich, does that mean a can run what ever boost?

i was thinking around 25psi.

what do you guys think

[boost_boy]

ok, so im on nistune, and still waiting to get dynoed, but i have create a base map, that is running 10.5 afrs on 22psi, it never goes any leaner, maybe 11 here or there.

i'm wondering how much boost can i run safely without breaking anything, i know the afrs will be fine, the main question is as long as the afrs are rich, does that mean a can run what ever boost?

i was thinking around 25psi.

what do you guys think

The answer to that is "No". Just because your engine is running semi-rich doesn't mean it's okay to shove x-amount of boost down the throttle body. You forgot about timing which is a major factor for any engine. Put the car on a dyno and push the envelope there for your particular application. As for how much boost the engine can physically take, well, about as much as you can throw at it.

Dee

[progman]

Just because you have enough fuel doesn't mean the rest of the engine can handle it.

We need details of the rest of the engine if you want us to guess how much it can handle.

[KEMP]

wisecos, king bearings, greddy headgasket, arp headstuds, stock rods.

now i know the timing is low, i can post up my timing map, if you would like.

i dont plan to pound multiple pounds of boost at it, unless i know it'll hold it.

dee, what do ya say man?

[progman]

I'd like to see the timing map. I'm not going to be able to offer much help. But i would like see it. Can you get like a.jpg of it? just to look at?

[KEMP]

[KEMP]

ok, so i failed, idk, it wont let me make it bigger

[mbmbmb23]

ok, so i failed, idk, it wont let me make it bigger

Dont put the pic in your sig, put it on flickr.com or another hosting site and link it. I too would be interested in seeing the map. I have Nistune and will be using it to set up my ROM. Im using an uprated stock ROM "tuned by Impul" (whatever that consists of) that I pulled from an ecu I traded for. I figured it would make a great starting point since the MAF/injector values were set to stock and not some unknown values.

-m

[boost_boy]

wisecos, king bearings, greddy headgasket, arp headstuds, stock rods.

now i know the timing is low, i can post up my timing map, if you would like.

i dont plan to pound multiple pounds of boost at it, unless i know it'll hold it.

dee, what do ya say man?

Sounds and looks like your engine has the physical capabilities, but tuning is what makes or breaks this engine. Your head and it's component are very important, the bottom end is a no-brainer, but the way you fuel and time this engine is where you got to understand a few things before a few things go flying out of your pocket again. Realize one of my tuning secrets, it's no timing whore like the SR

Dee

[KEMP]

i cant get the pic bigger.

but nistunes owner sent me the base.

[mbmbmb23]

i cant get the pic bigger.

but nistunes owner sent me the base.

Where did you get the pic from? Cant you just hit function+PrtSc and paste it into MSPaint, then save it as a JPG and host that pic somewhere? Nevertheless...if its a base map then I probably have the same file on my computer. I would however be interested to see any changes you make to the map if you give us a play by play on how the car drives afterwards.

-m

[MeanGreenS13]

how much did he charge for the base tune?

[mbmbmb23]

how much did he charge for the base tune?

As far as I know it just comes with Nistune.....I think its the OEM ROM....nothing special. You buy the Nistune unit and they email you the address file and ROM.

[bentvalves]

more boost and less timing, or less timing and more boost is the question you should be asking yourself.

Dee as to your sentiments on CA's being no timing whores like the SR's, I have pushed my CA well past MBT and into straight audible knock many times in my fiddlings with it and I have yet to bend or break anything. I have been warned however about going just a few degrees past MBT on sr20 however. Care to share what you experienced that makes you weary of overtiming the ca18? Overtiming any engine is not a good thing, but the difference between a crisp stock rod bending 3rd gear pull, and a semi flat equally fast sounding, not feeling pull is all in the timing maps, would you not agree?

[Buddyworm]

^That is the kind of information the community needs. Care to divulge the timing limits you've discovered on your engine? Get some good discussion going on here about turbos, boost levels and the timing you can run with them.

[bentvalves]

im running out the door right now but i do know this :

if im running 12-15 psi of boost pressure instead of the 25 that I normally do on my 2871, I can advance my entire timing map 10 degrees and the engine will not detonate. The 10 degrees that I add to the timing map makes a HUGE difference to boost onset, and overall power. The engines also does sound alot crisper and pulls faster to redline etc.

[Buddyworm]

That sounds pretty fun. What's your maximum timing advance at full load?

[KEMP]

timing map? please

me and my tuner are having a bit of trouble getting my timing dead on

[r34 gtr]

I don't feel I have a whole lot of room to talk, but I too have thrown a ridiculous amount of timing into my engine with no negative repercussions. I have not been running high boost, but I have been using large amounts of timing to get on boost. I have never had my car knock under any situations so far (with MSII I should say), even during my daily extended donut sessions.

Greg I believe we had a conversation about this when I stopped by, and we reached the conclusion that timing = okay.

[slw240sx]

yes a timing map for a turbo thats for a 2871 would do me a great service!! im running a Evo8 which is simillar in size, ill have to get my timing map out of the MS and post it up. we added timing to it the last track day and i blew up, but i think it was unrelated As i have no signs of detonation at all. i was running 18psi on 94 octane in 100deg heat.

[bentvalves]

if we are going to share timing maps certain things need to be taken into consideration. Compression ratio of pistons, headgasket thickness, has the head been skimmed numerous times (as in my case) IAT's as a result of the size of intercooler being used, backpressure on the turbine as a result of exhaust system backpressure etc etc.

[Buddyworm]

Maybe this'll help: http://www.driftwest.ca/Kenji/...p.bin

It's a base I've done for my buddy's TD06-17c powered CA18. It's pretty standard other than the turbo setup and cams (he thinks 264's or something).

Now it's SUPPOSED to be for GTR injectors (444cc) and a Z32 MAF but I can't vouch for the K's accuracy 100% on this one. I have a feeling it'll be out because I think he's having fuel pressure problems, like a dying FPR or not enough pressure with the cam lobes or something but it's just not always spot on and actually seems to fluctuate. One way or the other it should be pretty easy to modify for whatever MAF and injectors.

A few notes:These are basemaps I built from scratch so use at your own risk. These maps ran my engine for several months with no breakdowns and hard driving before I moved on to a more aggressive, newer itteration (which is also running the engine superbly well), so take that for what it is. I won't be taking responsibility for any of your blown engines unless I'M the one tuning the motor when it happens.

It started out for a setup with a turbo with similar flow to a Disco potato at 1Bar.

Noting the above: It's still pretty conservative. Timing is more aggressive than stock but still backed off and the fuel maps are hella safe (ie: rich ).

The car with the TD06 spins the tires, at 14.7psi, through 3rd at merging speed and is INSANELY fast in 4th.

Boost cut is removed. However, this is one of the best safety features ever, so I recommend you set it yourself for your application. You set it just slightly above your current maximum boost so if a wastegate line ever pops off the ECU cuts fuel once you go over. Experiment with the TP Load Limit table.

Let me know what you guys think.


Modified by Buddyworm at 11:34 AM 6/30/2009

[mbmbmb23]

These are basemaps I built from scratch

Modified by Buddyworm at 11:34 AM 6/30/2009

From scratch starting with a JDM base map....correct?

[Buddyworm]

Scratch as in, a grid of zeros. Doesn't really matter what you start from so long as you've got your TP and RPM scales set properly. **Edit: I guess you could say I went into the stock JDM rom, erased the timing tables and then rebuilt them on my own.

That rom should work with most JDM and maybe even euro ecus. It'll depend on wether it's a catalyzed or non-catalyzed model.


Modified by Buddyworm at 2:17 PM 6/30/2009

[bentvalves]

how would I take a picture of my timing map in FC edit and post it here?

slw24sx you added timing and she popped but with no signs of detonation on piston tops or spark plugs? Forged pistons? Did pistons break or did lower end bearings spin?

Thats what im talking about though ignition timing plays a key role in crisp, fun usable power. Bet the car felt the best its ever felt on that hot day with the deeper timing curve yea?
Modified by ks13 at 3:59 PM 6/30/2009

[Buddyworm]

Alt+Print Screen then paste it into paint or something.