how much better is a stand alone?

[srdub-t]

OK ive searched but i havnt found what im exactly looking for. Right now i have an enthalpy ECU and im going to do minor adjustments with an safc on a dyno, and im wondering how much better would a power fc or a ems be, for both power and reliabilty, mostly reliability. Im running a redtop sr with headwork and top mount gt3071r boosting like 15 lbs. People say that enthalpy has awsome timing and ignition maps so im wondering with the safc would that be enough to keep me from frying rings, or is it worth it to fork out the extra cash for a stand alon??? Your help is greatly apreciated.

[CoupedUp]

Youll be fine.

As long as you have a wideband and your A/F Ratio stay to your liking. You'll be golden.

You'll be golden.

Standalones are generally for people trying to pull the most out of their setup.

[srdub-t]

im more worried about reliability, but how much more power are we looking at from swithing to a power fc?

[otterman]

AEM EMS sucks for Nissan. So don't go that route.

If you got enthalpy tune already, I'd just go with SAFC. The tune you got from them is pretty reliable, though there is always room for minor fuel adjustment.

[redtop91]

From what I hear Enthalpy's tunes leave A LOT of room for improvement, which is the main reason for the reliability.

[CoupedUp]

JWT leaves more...take your pick.

[otterman]

Oklahoma people know their tuning

[redtop91]

Sean does... I'm just a n00b.

[CoupedUp]

Home of 2 400+WHP DSM ECU KAs. ; ).

[redtop91]

Some guy running around town claims to have a 380whp NA KA

/okie threadjack

[srdub-t]

So everyone is telling me that its not worth it to switch to a power fc, keeping in mind that i could sell my ecu and my safc and have enough to buy a power fc

[CoupedUp]

Basically a PowerFC will maybe yield more power in the end. 5 more WHP? I don't know.

I honestly think if you don't plan on going above say the SAFCs limits as far as injectors go. Get something to data-log your wideband or a datalogging wideband. Make sure your AFRs stay within your liking and I think you'll be just fine.

If your AFRs are fine then your reliability will be too.

12:1 on an SAFC is the same thing as 12:1 on a PowerFC.

So spend some time datalogging 3rd and 4th gear pulls on a nice flat straight road in the middle of nowhere. Look at your datalogged pulls and add fuel and take away as needed at the correct RPM.

EDIT: Watch your Wideband during the pulls on the first few runs to make sure you're not too lean. If you see something in the high 12s or 13s. I would back off and start with those lower RPM range where you're lean and add some fuel in to bring it down. Then continue to go higher in the RPM range until everything is where you want it.

The dyno is the best way as you don't have to worry about tickets and such.

Good luck.

[srdub-t]

your right but air fuel ratios is not what im worried about, thats easy, timing maps and other aspects of tuning that arent adjustable with an safc is what im more worried about.

redtop91 you said that enthalpy leaves alot of room for improvment is that for air fuels or for everything in general?

[exode]

daily driver i'm sure you'll be happier with just a re-mapped nissan ecu. MUCH happier! I would only switch to a standalone if I was running a 600hp+ setup or running a MAP sensor for track only, ethanol, etc...

FYI Imo PowerFCs are pieces of **** unless you have the software to run them on your laptop. The handheld is complete horse****. Most people who run 100% standalone go with haltech.

Another thought, if you want to sell your SAFC and ECU for a PowerFC your not including your 7 hours of Dyno Time or Professional tuning if you don't know how to mess with ignition maps...and the cost for a Wideband for adjustments on storm days where the atmospheric pressure can vary ~30 millibar. Which if your running a really setup could throw everything off...not to mention altitude and location will screw with your base maps that you try to use...

I could go on, just some things to leave you with.

[ericb382]

daily driver i'm sure you'll be happier with just a re-mapped nissan ecu. MUCH happier! I would only switch to a standalone if I was running a 600hp+ setup or running a MAP sensor for track only, ethanol, etc...

FYI Imo PowerFCs are pieces of **** unless you have the software to run them on your laptop. The handheld is complete horse****. Most people who run 100% standalone go with haltech.

Another thought, if you want to sell your SAFC and ECU for a PowerFC your not including your 7 hours of Dyno Time or Professional tuning if you don't know how to mess with ignition maps...and the cost for a Wideband for adjustments on storm days where the atmospheric pressure can vary ~30 millibar. Which if your running a really setup could throw everything off...not to mention altitude and location will screw with your base maps that you try to use...

I could go on, just some things to leave you with.

or you could download the maps off your enthalpy and transfer them to the pfc. I believe pfc is on a 20x20 and enthalpy is 16x16 but I'm sure you can do the prealgebra to translate it in no time. If he's gonna mess around with a safc, sounds like a wideand is in order anyway....

I'm not saying wideband all the way, I'm just saying if you can sell the enthalpy and safc for the cost of a pfc, why not... IMO the biggest benefit would be the ability to easily and cheaply retune if you change your setup.

[srdub-t]

yea i already have the enthalpy ecu the safc and the wideband all hooked up just tryin to figure if its worth it to switch because im guessing on my setup witch i would like to run 18 lbs every now and then producing prolly 400 wheel horsepower on stock bottom end; does switching to stand alone durastacally reduce my chances of blowing up or is the enthalpy and safc good enough. And i know 400 on stock bottom end is pushing the limits no matter what tuning but i figure i might be lucky like those other daily drivin 400 hp srs out there, and if not theres going to be a full part out on nico lol. hopefully not tho

[CoupedUp]

I know this is from the KA world, but on the most consistent basis Enthalpy produces the most reliable tune for the KA.

[GRIPPY]

Just stick with your rom tune. But i would shoot for low 11's for A/F ratios with a setup like that. Loose a bit of gas mileage, but gain some reliability. Heat is your biggest enemy here, so keep the chance of detonation down by adding more fuel. Enthalpy's spark timing should be fine for you.

[redtop91]

redtop91 you said that enthalpy leaves alot of room for improvment is that for air fuels or for everything in general?

Not so much AFR, but injector duty cycle. You can squeeze more HP out of a motor that uses 90+% of it's injector capability but that leaves almost no room to compensate for boost spikes or any other instability in metered air or fuel. As a general rule I've decided around 80% injector duty cycle as my max and IIRC Enthalpy tunes something to that effect. You should email both JWT and Enthalpy and find out exactly what kind of cushion they leave. I'm happy with my Mine's tune

[srdub-t]

im pushing the injectors, im running 650cc injectors on that setup some peaple tell me i should run 740s. Also when you say heat is my enemy do you mean like get a heat blanket for my turbo and cut a hole in my hood or did you mean like engine running temps and get a nismo thermostat? thanks for the help
Modified by srdub-t at 2:32 PM 9/10/2007

[exode]

I just absolutely hate the PowerFC handheld. Once again you can transfer ignition maps fairly easy to a pfc, not your fuel maps though. Enthalpy since it uses some volt readings from the stock O2 sensor makes its own adjustments based off of that, mafs readings, tps readings, etc... A PFC, or any standalone is linear fuel mapping.

The beauty of the stock ECU, is it takes your reading from your MAFS alot more to heart. With a standalone is doesn't really care, it basically goes for every X amount of air dump 1 part fuel in where X is your tuning curve. A burned ECU like Enthalpys can go away from the curve to make minor driving adjustments, depending on the varying conditions as a daily driver. Make sense?

And I do believe running more than 80% injector cycle is really dangerous, if something fails and you max out those injectors your asking for detonation. Enthalpy and JWT both stick close to 80%.

650cc IMO will be way too little for your setup. Running those injectors at 43.5 psi (fuel pressure, which is what enthalpys tune is set at, unless you had him change it) will have them running at almost full duty cycle at 15 psi. You could blow up your motor.

I would go with something in the 800s even... http://www.deatschwerks.com/ca...s.php

ps when he says he is your enemy, he means running too lean. If your AFR is too high your running more air, hence alot more heat which could leat to detonation. Running too rich will cause melting. Running it just right, but just slightly more rich than a racing mixture will be perfect for daily driving since your keeping you air down and less heat as well.

pps let me clarify, enriching a mixture keeps the combustion at a lower temperature.

[otterman]

I would go with something in the 800s even... http://www.deatschwerks.com/ca...s.php

+1 Deatschwerks ftw

[srdub-t]

yea i have deatchwerks right now but i really dont want to get my ecu retuned for another 125 buks and buy new injectors. i heard that 650s should be okay to like 450 horspower easy but thats just based off what peaple say i mean if i have to i guess ill switch to bigger injectors. But what do you think about the horsepower ratings for the 650s correct or incorrect. Thanks for all the info again.

[exode]

Well, I really wish I had more experience with your turbo. I'm running 18 psi on a 28 trim, your running 15 psi on a 30 trim. I get almost 400hp still keeping my 550s at 80% drive, doing some serious guesswork I think you should be okay with 650s. You can make the numbers, but you might run a bit lean at times if something happens to max out your injector load.

I don't know if you said you had an SAFC, but I would sell that and go with one size up (700+cc) and get your ecu re-flashed. Thats what I would do, but I run my motors very conservatively for street use.

Basically, you'll make the numbers you want with the injectors you have. Keeping them at a safe load is a different story, something to keep in mind when you have some extra cash and want to make your motor more reliable. But for now you should be okay.

[srdub-t]

ok i got another question if im not running an o2 sencor does that mean my enthalpy ecu wont compensate what it has to for like more boost or altitude or any of that stuff.

[redtop91]

I don't think it would. Doesn't your ECU throw codes by not having an O2 sensor?

[exode]

Have enthaply tune it for the max amount of boost you think you'll run. And yes, it needs an O2 sensor to idle properly. And since your still running MAF, altitude isn't too big of a factor with a reflashed ecu. Just have an O2 sensor, that way you eliminate that being a problem when your trying to get your car to run right...

[idahotuner]

so for a gt2871r 550 injectors and a jwt rom tune do i need to have a safc. or no shold i use bigger injectors. with the reflashed ecu i can just hook it right up and my motor will run fine?

[redtop91]

so for a gt2871r 550 injectors and a jwt rom tune do i need to have a safc

No. All an SAFC will allow you to do is to make adjustments to the tune for say cams or and injector upgrade without having to pay JWT for a reflash. You'll need a wideband though.

shold i use bigger injectors.

Which A/R?

with the reflashed ecu i can just hook it right up and my motor will run fine?

Yes. I'd certainly hope you've done a MAF upgrade though.

[srdub-t]

yea i just dont remember if i told enthalpy that i wasnt using an o2