How many of you have non recirc. bov's?
so i just use the stock maf? place it in the hotpipe in a straight section to reduce turbulance? also do i just put the maf going in the same direction as oem location? thanks for the help. its really more simple than it seems. i think all the jibber jabber wracked up too much info going into my brain. this board is ALOT better than club240.com that i was a member of. everyone over there is clueless cause this subject came up and i asked questions over there how its possible to run open atmoshpere and no one even mentioned doing anything like this. its good to have people here that are knowledgable which i could tell right when i entered into this forum. again thanks
you might want to check out some other threads on "hacked mafs," it involves increasing the diameter of the s14 mafs so that the engine is taking in more air but "thinks" it is taking in the stock amount of air, so you can run larger injectors and the engine gives them the proper amount of fuel. there is lots of info on it here in this forum and on others if you take the time to find it, and its explained far better than I could.
the setup with the mafs after the turbo is called "blow through mafs"
the setup with the mafs after the turbo is called "blow through mafs"
so i can run a hacked maf as a different alternative to fuel managemnt kind of. it just allows me to run larger injectors to provide enough fuel for the more air coming in. if i did this i can trash the fmu and inline. and just let the maf take care of fuel management like its originally designed to do. but when running a hacked maf can you still use it as a blow through type so you can still run open atmosphere bov? im gonna go research the hacked maf right now. that sounds better than running a fmu and inline. if i did do this setup id probably have to upgrade my fuel pump right.
yes, most definatley upgrade the fuel pump. dont boost the KA without upgrading the fuel pump. the walbro 255 is a common pump used for the 240. The hacked MAF setup is a type of fuel management used so expensive piggyback,FMU, and stand alones are not needed. some people think the hacked MAF setup is a bit unreliable but if done correctly the hack MAF setup has proven big #s
C-Kwik wrote:The karmen-vortex somehow measures a certain frequency of some sort to measure air-flow. I'm not as keen on it, but I think it measures the speed of air through it. Therefore it would need a pressure and temp sensor. Flapper door and plunger type MAF's are similar as the amount of movement the flapper door moves correlates to airspeed. As with Karmen-Vortex, it needs a separate pressure and temp sensor to calculate the actual airflow. Hotwire MAF's are the only type that can measure all parameters through only the hotwire.
exactly, the karmann vortex MAF's create vorticies in the airflow, and then count those vorticies. since the passage is a known size, its really measuring volume through airspeed. and the other sensors determine density, and therefore mass.
You can search but basicly, what you do is cut the sensor piping off, so all you have is the sensor itself, then take a 2.7 or 2.8 inch pipe, and put the sesor, into the pipe so the so the wire meter piece is inside then you glue or take the holes. A 2.7 inch pipe so to be used with 370cc injector from eaither sr20det, or tt 300zx, they drop in. Do with a hacked maf and 370, with all other proper turbo components you should make about 220 250 depending on size of turbo and boost. The limit with this is about 12 psi. This is a fairly new setup and has not been tested. But there are sevral people making 240rwhp, with t3/to4e at like 8-9 lbs of boost. Later
Vadem
Vadem
actually this has been tested, by orion i believe. he dynoed his hacked MAF setup, then hooked up a JWT tuned ECU to the same engine (took out the Hacked MAF) and dynoed that. the results were amazing. Hacked MAF had better peak torque and hp with a much better powerband. find the thread on here, think its called something like "hacked MAF vs. JWT" the main think with the hacked MAF is, you are sneeking a certain % of air by the MAF that does not get measured while at the same time you add injectors that are the same % larger than stock as the % of air not being measure. therefore the result is a stock A/F ratio. keep in mind there are other components you will need with this setup such as a way to control the timing. i forget the product name but MSD makes it and u can tune a certain amount of timing degree retard for every lb. of boost.
yes i found that thread and read it. but i dont recall any write up on how to actually perform the operation. all that was talked about was the difference in the hack and jwt ecu. im just gonna assume all that was done was increase the diameter of the pipe that houses the maf. i understand how it works by not letting the maf see a certain percentage of air to run a certain percantage larger than stock injector. 370cc that can be found from a ttz or sr20det and they drop right in. also i havent found out where the maf actually goes to run the hack. does it go in the stock oem location on the intake? or can you put it in the charge pipe and still run open atmosphere bov. im understanding more and more and im bout to say **** the fmu and inline. but not till i actually figure out exactly what has to be done for this to work. thanks for helping guys. im still searching and reading, my head hurts.
QUOTES FROM NOTES/POSTS IM KEEPING DOWN AS A RECORD FOR MY SETUP:
"I strongly urge all of you to use this with no bigger than 370cc injectors...
Any more fuel opens the door to much higher HP from more boost, and for that you need timing control. And with the proper size MAF inner diameter, you'll max the airflow reading at less than 10psi anyway...way less than the max of 555s or 72lb'ers.
And you can't have a much larger hack...there's already enough innacuracy introduced that any bigger then 3" IMO will drive for s***.
ALSO: On the dyno I found that the theoretical ID needed to run 370s is too big - It should be 2.8711" ID to be perfect, but mine at 2.875" was quite lean, as in 15:1 or so under boost.
2.75" is still a little on the lean side, although not too bad - And that only a 26% increase in cross sectional area, not the 37% that 'should' be used..."
"Blow through MAF's have been discussed here and on Freshalloy. It does work. There is no big benefit to doing so. Only, if you run a BOV in front of the MAF somewhere(not too close as to disrupt the reading) you can run an open BOV with no stalling issues
------------------
I used to own a 1985 300ZX. IF you are going to use a Z31 turbo, get one from the late 85 or 86 turbos, they were water-cooled in addition(the early 85 and 84 turbos were not) to being the T3.
Yes it is internal waste gate as long as you use the Z31 down pipe and the z31 actuator is set at like 6psi, setting up a boost controller is very easy. I ran a hallman on mine and it was solid at whatever i set it at.------------------
Orion's set-up and drop the timing stuff. Just back off the base timing of the car .5 for every psi of boost--------------------but if you move the maf after the turbo then you can put the bov in between the maf and the turbo.. that way when you blow off all that extra air the ecu doesn't know about it and won't add more fuel for the air that the motor never gets..---IF YOU DONT WANT TO RECIRCULATE IT, JUST DO A BLOW THROUGH SETUP. CLEANS UP THE INSTALL A BIT AND SOUNDS MUCH COOLER
mounting my MAF sensor inbetween the intercooler and TBblow thru maf is great. it may even reduce the air restricion created by the small maf, because its pressureized air.
but tuning with safc etc is reccomended, because the intake air temp will be different. (probably hotter) and the maf is not used to measuring pressurized air.
(the manual also says that the max. MAF output should be around 3V, but not to rev it too high with no load on the engine!)
Stock MAF is good to 7-8psi, depending on the turbo. Mine hit 5.11 volts at 8psi from a T3/T04E, which is MAXED...
Hacked MAF allows 8psi easily b/c it's not metering the correct amount of air, so it reads less voltage at 8psi (mine was hitting ~4.8 volts)...so no MAF cut."
"I strongly urge all of you to use this with no bigger than 370cc injectors...
Any more fuel opens the door to much higher HP from more boost, and for that you need timing control. And with the proper size MAF inner diameter, you'll max the airflow reading at less than 10psi anyway...way less than the max of 555s or 72lb'ers.
And you can't have a much larger hack...there's already enough innacuracy introduced that any bigger then 3" IMO will drive for s***.
ALSO: On the dyno I found that the theoretical ID needed to run 370s is too big - It should be 2.8711" ID to be perfect, but mine at 2.875" was quite lean, as in 15:1 or so under boost.
2.75" is still a little on the lean side, although not too bad - And that only a 26% increase in cross sectional area, not the 37% that 'should' be used..."
"Blow through MAF's have been discussed here and on Freshalloy. It does work. There is no big benefit to doing so. Only, if you run a BOV in front of the MAF somewhere(not too close as to disrupt the reading) you can run an open BOV with no stalling issues
------------------
I used to own a 1985 300ZX. IF you are going to use a Z31 turbo, get one from the late 85 or 86 turbos, they were water-cooled in addition(the early 85 and 84 turbos were not) to being the T3.
Yes it is internal waste gate as long as you use the Z31 down pipe and the z31 actuator is set at like 6psi, setting up a boost controller is very easy. I ran a hallman on mine and it was solid at whatever i set it at.------------------
Orion's set-up and drop the timing stuff. Just back off the base timing of the car .5 for every psi of boost--------------------but if you move the maf after the turbo then you can put the bov in between the maf and the turbo.. that way when you blow off all that extra air the ecu doesn't know about it and won't add more fuel for the air that the motor never gets..---IF YOU DONT WANT TO RECIRCULATE IT, JUST DO A BLOW THROUGH SETUP. CLEANS UP THE INSTALL A BIT AND SOUNDS MUCH COOLER
mounting my MAF sensor inbetween the intercooler and TBblow thru maf is great. it may even reduce the air restricion created by the small maf, because its pressureized air.
but tuning with safc etc is reccomended, because the intake air temp will be different. (probably hotter) and the maf is not used to measuring pressurized air.
(the manual also says that the max. MAF output should be around 3V, but not to rev it too high with no load on the engine!)
Stock MAF is good to 7-8psi, depending on the turbo. Mine hit 5.11 volts at 8psi from a T3/T04E, which is MAXED...
Hacked MAF allows 8psi easily b/c it's not metering the correct amount of air, so it reads less voltage at 8psi (mine was hitting ~4.8 volts)...so no MAF cut."
thanks alot for all of that info. so this maf hack is kinda just like the afc hack with hondas map sensor which is what im running on the lude. you can only run a certain psi until the map voltage reaches a certain point and throws a code and causes the ecu to go into limp mode. but from what ive researched so far that psi doesnt have any affect on a maf. or does it? see this **** is too confusing when trying to research yourself. some questions you just have to have answered one on one.
yes i know that. the guy up there ^ was saying how at about 5.0v is the maf limit. i was kinda relating that with the honda map cause at a certain voltage the map wont read any higher. get it? so the maf does reach a point to where it cant read past a certain voltage correct? with the maf it has nothing to do with pressure like the map sensor does. its all about how much air is actually moving through the *****. so turbo sizes actually play a role in this. well, how much ever cfm is being flowed. so does the maf start acting all weird and make the engine run like *** when it goes past the max reading? if so is there anyway around this to be able to boost more?
thanks. now how do i go about getting it to work right? also does the motor run in limp mode when it hits the limit of the maf voltage? with a bigger maf can i still hack it to run bigger injectors? i guess i could but id have to calculate how big of a space i need for the bigger maf to equal out to 370cc injectors. thanks for helping, remember this is all totally new for me as i have been in the honda crowd for years.
you dont need a bigger maf... when u use the hacked maf make sure the cold pipe "after the intercooler going into the TB" is smaller than 3in piping and use CA18DET "370" injectors for KA24E engine and SR20DET "370" injectors for the KA24DE engine... and make sure u upgrade the fuel pump and that should be it..no need for a fuel management then... no need for bigger maf no need for adjusting voltage....virtually plug and play..
ok so what happens when the maf reaches its voltage limit? im gonna run 2.25'' piping. and on the cold side i basically make a straight section say about 8-10'' long and house the maf in that section. but the section where its housed will be 2.8 or whatever the proper size is for the maf to equal out to 370 injectors from a sr20det. just have nice smooth transitions from my 2.25'' piping to the 2.8 or so where the maf is housed. if so then that wont be hard at all. so i just leave the maf wired how it came from the factory? just simply put the maf in a properly sized bigger pipe and thats it? damn thats easy. i still want to know the max cfm i can push.
changing the diameter of the cold pipe? i dont suggest it. id keep the same size piping you need for the hacked MAF to work properly for the whole cold pipe. shanging the diameter may mess up airflow causing problems with the MAF, plus its easier to run one size throughout the whole cold pipe. once the MAF maxes out it will stay at whatever the max voltage is (little above 5v) so if the engine coninues to add more boost but your reading the same voltage from the MAF, the A/F ratio will begin to lean out and possibly cause detonation and do some serious harm to the engine. not good
check this out: http://www.ka24development.com/turbo_story.htmlthat should help u out alot
also this: http://forums.freshalloy.com/u...&vc=1