how far can you go in California?

[phreaknature]

So the big question I have for all you tuners is, how far can I take my car in California?

I'm keeping my engine a SOHC and until I run it to the ground, it's going to stay that way. I do want to give it some power though. I've read builds on the engine from some of you guys, but unfortunately you don't seem to live in CA. There's even one of you who've passed a smog test with a turbo slapped on and all the smog-needed parts taken out, but that was in Texas. California and the CARB seems to have the HIGHEST disregard for what we love to do, and that's making out cars better than the average. But there's got to be some line that we would have to cross first in order to violate something, and living here I would really like to know what that line is. How far car I go with tuning and modding my engine before I reach that line? I'm looking for a way to make my daily driver into a weekend warrior hiding in sheep's clothing. The most awesome thing I would LOVE to do is being pulled over by a cop, have him look under my hood, and tell him "Sorry officer, but under California guidelines, my car and her heart is in perfect legal working condition."

The only thing is, I haven't found the answer so far. All your mods, they're either only for track or pro driving, or you just don't live in CA. So if there is anyone in California who seems to have gotten it, could you let me know? Please?

[iggyspeed]

So the big question I have for all you tuners is, how far can I take my car in California?

I'm keeping my engine a SOHC and until I run it to the ground, it's going to stay that way. I do want to give it some power though. I've read builds on the engine from some of you guys, but unfortunately you don't seem to live in CA. There's even one of you who've passed a smog test with a turbo slapped on and all the smog-needed parts taken out, but that was in Texas. California and the CARB seems to have the HIGHEST disregard for what we love to do, and that's making out cars better than the average. But there's got to be some line that we would have to cross first in order to violate something, and living here I would really like to know what that line is. How far car I go with tuning and modding my engine before I reach that line? I'm looking for a way to make my daily driver into a weekend warrior hiding in sheep's clothing. The most awesome thing I would LOVE to do is being pulled over by a cop, have him look under my hood, and tell him "Sorry officer, but under California guidelines, my car and her heart is in perfect legal working condition."

The only thing is, I haven't found the answer so far. All your mods, they're either only for track or pro driving, or you just don't live in CA. So if there is anyone in California who seems to have gotten it, could you let me know? Please?

<------ check out my location. LOL

[phreaknature]

Yeah, great, you're in California as well but you're running a SR, and I'm running in a KA minus a turbo. Your post is invalid because of your lack in answering anything in my post. Sorry.

[OutToWinPAHC]

You missed the section for cali, thread moved.

[pj]

this has been answered quite often...and you should already know this crap.
so, here we go...
first, read the laws for you state...that ones pretty obvious. if you are in violation of any one of them, then you crossed the line. obviously.
second, no matter what you do, you must pass emissions...yes, there are people running crazy setups in cali, day in and day out...but they either have a buddy or some sort of hook up with emissions...if you dont have that, you sir, are screwed on it.
third, dont draw unecessary attention to yourself. sleepers are big there for a reason. if the cops have no reason to pull you, then they wont know what your car has on it now will they?
fourth, cali and big tex are two very different places.
fifth, whatever you install...must have a carb # in plain sight. MUST. everything must be 50 state legal, that includes cali, not 49 state bs. 50. which isnt much in the way of performance sooo...
basically the line you speak of is crossed the minute you change the car at all...you can bend the rules and even break them in certain cases but dont b**** and whine when your non-oem car gets tickets for the dumbest s***, because if you get pulled over and the cop notices anything he can check you out and he will.
also keep in mind, cops arent oblivious to things like they were in the 90's many cops working the roads now, are my age or younger...they grew up with the whole import tuning craze so many will recignize things on your car just as any other s-chassis guy would.
in short, do whatever the hell you want to. but fun costs money. the only way to be perfectly safe is by running a well taken care of oem vehicle to keep from being hasseled.
did that answer your question??

[iggyspeed]

Yeah, great, you're in California as well but you're running a SR, and I'm running in a KA minus a turbo. Your post is invalid because of your lack in answering anything in my post. Sorry.

just be quiet when you're beside a cop, try not to make your BOV make that ridiculous psssshhhhhhhhhh sound. lol. then when it comes to smog. just find a shop that can pass your car without even seeing your car. lol. you have to pay extra i think. coz for my smog i get my hook ups like that, i just bring my smog order then i pay $50 then "POOOOOF" my car is smoged go DMV with a smile on my face knowing that i can beast on the streets of california all day everyday no problem. OMFGLULZ

[iggyspeed]

this has been answered quite often...and you should already know this crap.
so, here we go...
first, read the laws for you state...that ones pretty obvious. if you are in violation of any one of them, then you crossed the line. obviously.
second, no matter what you do, you must pass emissions...yes, there are people running crazy setups in cali, day in and day out...but they either have a buddy or some sort of hook up with emissions...if you dont have that, you sir, are screwed on it.
third, dont draw unecessary attention to yourself. sleepers are big there for a reason. if the cops have no reason to pull you, then they wont know what your car has on it now will they?
fourth, cali and big tex are two very different places.
fifth, whatever you install...must have a carb # in plain sight. MUST. everything must be 50 state legal, that includes cali, not 49 state bs. 50. which isnt much in the way of performance sooo...
basically the line you speak of is crossed the minute you change the car at all...you can bend the rules and even break them in certain cases but dont b**** and whine when your non-oem car gets tickets for the dumbest s***, because if you get pulled over and the cop notices anything he can check you out and he will.
also keep in mind, cops arent oblivious to things like they were in the 90's many cops working the roads now, are my age or younger...they grew up with the whole import tuning craze so many will recignize things on your car just as any other s-chassis guy would.
in short, do whatever the hell you want to. but fun costs money. the only way to be perfectly safe is by running a well taken care of oem vehicle to keep from being hasseled.
did that answer your question??

you should be a saint sir. <3

[pj]

you should be a saint sir. <3

hahaha thanks, i will accept the nomination for sainthood with grace and humility. just make sure its cool with the vatican...those guys can be scary.

[iggyspeed]

you should be a saint sir. <3

hahaha thanks, i will accept the nomination for sainthood with grace and humility. just make sure its cool with the vatican...those guys can be scary.

And dont rape little boys too please. Lulz

[caylors13]

you could swap you single cam for an sr20det than go to the state referee and have him smog and visually inspect your engine bay but it is a little more expensive than a typical smog test. about 175 with tax at the reff with an appt.you could even do a ls1 swap just as long as its in california smog regulations meaning the emissions of your exhaust must be with in the emissions of that engine. BUT EVERY YEAR U HAVE TO GO TO THE REFF. HOPE I HELPED U OUT.

[pj]

And dont rape little boys too please. Lulz

.....yuck. just that topic...yuck.

[the converted]

you could swap you single cam for an sr20det than go to the state referee and have him smog and visually inspect your engine bay but it is a little more expensive than a typical smog test. about 175 with tax at the reff with an appt.you could even do a ls1 swap just as long as its in california smog regulations meaning the emissions of your exhaust must be with in the emissions of that engine. BUT EVERY YEAR U HAVE TO GO TO THE REFF. HOPE I HELPED U OUT.

NO. There was never a federally compliant DET engine. If you had a honda and were swapping in oh say a k20 with all the emissions components, you could do that because the K20 was emissions compliant in the first place.

To the OP, you can pretty much only do an exhaust or a filter that won't change anything from the MAF to the throttle body unless it's CARB approved. If you really wanted power, you would have to be looking towards a USDM engine with a lot of hassles of making sure that every emissions component swaps over and functions properly. It sucks, but if you don't want to deal with tickets, it's all you've got

[OutToWinPAHC]

Engine swaps are not legal unless they are of the same type, same year or newer. Basically it's illegal to swap motors, however there are state allowances that will allow for it - Street rod title brand, experimental, test vehicles. Rich of Daft has a LS swapped 240 with is Cali legal, but its branded as experimental.

Cali supersedes federal law beyond any state, but if your craft you can pull it off.

However there used to be a carb approved turbo kit for the KA24 from garrett. If motivated enough you could get the paperwork in order to do this.


UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20460
ENGINE SWITCHING FACT SHEET
UNITED STATES ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY WASHINGTON, D.C. 20460
March 13, 1991
OFFICE OF AIR AND RADIATION
Pursuant to frequent requests for information received by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) regarding the legality and effects of engine switching, this document will summarize federal
law and policy pertaining to this matter, and will discuss other related issues.
A. Federal Law
The federal tampering prohibition is contained in section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act (Act), 42
U.S.C. 7522(a)(3). Section 203(a)(3)(A) of the Act prohibits any person from removing or rendering
inoperative any emission control device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or
motor vehicle engine prior to its sale and delivery to an ultimate purchaser and prohibits any
person from knowingly removing or rendering inoperative any such device or element of design after
such sale and delivery, and the causing thereof. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this
section by a manufacturer or dealer is $25,000; for any other person, $2,500. Section 203(a)(3)(B)
of the Act prohibits any person from manufacturing or selling, or offering to sell, or installing,
any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle
engine where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render
inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle
engine, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for
sale or is being installed for such use. The maximum civil penalty for a violation of this section
is $2,500.


EPA received many questions regarding the application of this law to a situation where one engine
is removed from a vehicle and another engine is installed in its place. EPA's policy regarding
"engine switching" is covered under the provisions of Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum No. lA
(Attachment 1). This policy states that EPA will not consider any modification to a "certified
configuration" to be a violation of federal law if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that
emissions are not adversely affected. In many cases, proper emission testing according to the
Federal Test
Procedure would be necessary to make this determination.

A "certified configuration" is an engine or engine chassis design which has been "certified"
(approved) by EPA prior to the production of vehicles with that design. Generally, the manufacturer
submits an application for certification of the designs of each engine or vehicle it proposes to
manufacture prior to production. The application includes design requirements for all emission
related parts, engine calibrations, and other design parameters for each different type of engine
(in heavy-duty vehicles), or engine chassis combination (in light-duty vehicles). EPA then
"certifies" each acceptable design for use, in vehicles of the upcoming model year.


For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty eng~ne into a different light-duty vehicle by
any person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to
all emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified
configuration of the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable
basis for knowing that emissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The
appropriate source for technical information regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of
a particular model year is the vehicle manufacturer.


For heavy-duty vehicles, the resulting vehicle must contain a heavy-duty engine which is identical
to a certified configura- tion of a heavy-duty engine of the same model year or newer as the year
of the installed engine. Under no circumstances, however, may a heavy-duty engine ever be installed
in a light-duty vehicle.


The most common engine replacement involves replacing a gasoline engine in a light-duty vehicle
with another gasoline engine. Another type of engine switching which commonly occurs, however,
involves diesel powered vehicles where the diesel engine is removed and replaced with a gasoline
engine. Applying the above policy, such a replacement is legal only if the resulting engine-chassis
configuration is equivalent to a certified configuration of the same model year or newer as the
chassis. If the vehicle chassis in question has been certified with gasoline, as well as diesel
engines(as is common), such a conversion could be done legally.


Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used
foreign-built engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any
vehicle sold in this country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally.
EPA has recently brought enforcement actions against certain parties who have violated the
tampering prohibition by performing illegal engine switches.


It should be noted that while EPA's policy allows engine switches as long as the resulting vehicle
matches exactly to any certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the chassis,
there are some substantial practical limitations to performing such a replacement. Vehicle chassis
and engine designs of one vehicle manufacturer are very distinct from those of another, such that
it is generally not possible to put an engine into a chassis of a different manufacturer and have
it match up to a certified configuration. Therefore, practical considerations will generally limit engine switches to
installation of
another engine which was certified to be used in that same make and model (or a "twin" of that make
and model, e.g., Pontiac Grand Am and Oldsmobile Calais). In addition, converting a vehicle into a
different certified configuration is likely to be very difficult, and the cost may prove
prohibitive.
B. State Laws
Many states also have statutes or regulations prohibiting tampering in general. Most of these laws
specifically prohibit tampering by individuals. A few specifically prohibit engine switching, using
provisions similar to those stated in EPA's policy. To determine the state law in any given state,
the state's Attorney General's office should be contacted. In addition, many states have state or
local antitampering inspection programs which require a periodic inspection of vehicles in that
area, to determine the integrity of emission control systems. Many programs have established
policies for vehicles which have been engine switched. While EPA does not require these programs to
fail engine switched vehicles which are not in compliance with federal policy, the Agency does
strongly
recommend that these programs set their requirements so as to be consistent with the federal law.
State or local programs which pass illegally engine switched vehicles may mislead federally
regulated parties
into believing that engine switching is allowed by federal law.

[iggyspeed]

geezzuss.... amen to that.

[phreaknature]

Hmm, with a lot of informative answers and even further research and consultation (actual face-to-face consultation!! finally!!) I've decided to do this by the unwritten tuner's guidebook... and go with modding the engine to be a sleeper. Ah, doubt I'll go turbo, but if I do then I'll just have to continuously reinstall the necessary emission parts in when it's time to get it smogged every other year. Hell, if I can even get my hands on another SOHC, I might even tamper with it enough to get it labelled as an experimental engine. The paperwork and the amount of funds for that doesn't seem that bad.

Anyone think it's a good idea to slap on a new header and essentially mess up its cosmetic look so that it looks like it's been in the engine since forever?