how do i lower my Q

[blackmike]

ok so im new to the forum but i need to know how to lower my car my friend and i have scoured the net looking for a solution to this question i've also been to 2 shops in the pgh area looking for a solution to the problem

thanks

Mike

[redmanfx]

You have to buy different shock springs for your Q. Check here at NICO for some California Custom Springs. They are used by several of us and they have our thumbs up for the most part. Lowers about 2 inches to 2 1/2 inches. They don't make them anymore, but someone may have some. Eibachs's are also an option, but they're soooo stiff that they have turned some people off. Otherwise you'll have to cut some springs which I don't recomend, but again a couple of folkes have done it.

[ceningolmo]

Mike... first, welcome to NICO. You've come to the right place!

Second... give us some details about your Q first so we can offer some help. What year? Mileage? Suspension work? Condition of the car mechanically? Current wheel setup?

I'd say we are about 50%, 50% on Q's being lowered in our forum. So, plenty of people around can offer some suggestions. Plus, there are about ... ooh... 1.3 million threads about lowering options for the Q so you can probably find some stuff by doing a couple of quick searches.

I'd search "lowering springs" "california custom" "eibach springs" just to get your started.

Again... welcome!

[redmanfx]

Here's a pic of the Cali Customs:

P.s.Welcome to NICO!

p.s.s.Go RAVENS!!!! Later dayz Cower...

[blackmike]

its a 94 Q45t its got around 126xxx on it but im riding on stockers but im looking to up grade but im not sure to what size height or width the car has no suspension work as of now. im hoping to get in to possible autocross or something along thos lines i

thanks again

[ceningolmo]

If you're looking to take this thing to the track, then you definitely have some work ahead of you.

It'll take time, of course, but there is plenty that you can do to make your Q a bit more autocross worthy. I'd recommend by searching out Wes' threads regarding his suspension setup. He has the most complete version of a "race minded" Q45...it is a monster.

Do some searches for content by Elwesso... preferably related to suspension. There is a lot do and know in the Q suspension systems. Particularly in the T models... HICAS makes everything more complicated.

[ScottJackson]

I have a confession... On my 540i bmw I lowered it by getting out two big pairs of Vice-Grips locking pliers, clamping one coil directly down onto another whilst still on the car, and welding them together with an old arc welder. I did it to all 4 springs and it's worked beautifully. If you go that cheap ghetto way, put aluminum foil behind to guard against weld splatter and weld in spots with time for it to cool before welding more. You don't want the springs to lose their spring from being overheated.

[nimbyfaygo]

I have a confession... On my 540i bmw I lowered it by getting out two big pairs of Vice-Grips locking pliers, clamping one coil directly down onto another whilst still on the car, and welding them together with an old arc welder. I did it to all 4 springs and it's worked beautifully. If you go that cheap ghetto way, put aluminum foil behind to guard against weld splatter and weld in spots with time for it to cool before welding more. You don't want the springs to lose their spring from being overheated.

thats pretty interesting actually, I have never heard of doing it that way.

I'm not 100% but I think that you will have pretty severe camber problems from lowering the car. My stock height 94, has some negative camber in the rear at stock height.

My other ride is a bagged S10, and I have had alignment and camber issues from the start with that thing. And its suspension is much simpler than a Q45.

[qsiguy]

Welding the springs? hmm, not a bad cheapo option and much easier than cutting them. That would likely be a little more consistent than just heating up the springs to compress them as well.

Camber issues will be no different if you use lowering springs, cut the springs, heat them up, or weld some coils together. You will still need to address the alignment issues no matter how you lower the car.

[elwesso]

CAMBER IS NOT TO BE YOUR MAJOR CONCERN when lowering a vehicle. Its the extra TOE you get when dropping the car. Dropping the car with california's will put your alignment out of spec, worst part is the rear, but you can still get the adjustable arms.. HICAS doesnt bother us too much, in fact it makes setting the rear toe possible from the factory.... you cant otherwise!

Scott, that is an interesting method. id trust my arc welder over my hacksaw...

I have to ask, by lowering your car, what is your goal?

[ScottJackson]

My goal was largely for looks as the front wheels had a BIG gap between the fender. I also wanted to reduce roll and didn't mind the fact that it would also increase the spring rate. I think welding coils together is much better than just heating the spring to make it drop. That heating takes the temper out of the steel and greatly weakens the spring. There's heat with welding too, but I don't suggest running a solid bead along half the circumference of the spring as that will put too much heat in the spring. Just weld up one end with a good strong tack, weld the other end (180* away) and then wait for it to cool. Then weld 1" or so in between those welds, let cool, and repeat until it's all welded up solid. I've had it like that for almost 10K miles and there's no signs of the weld cracking or anything else changing. It also dropped the car evenly a little over 1". I haven't done this method to a Q, so you'd just have to measure the gap between coils while the car's weight is on them to see how much of a drop you'd get.

[maxnix]

I have to ask, by lowering your car, what is your goal?

My goal was largely for looks as the front wheels had a BIG gap between the fender. I also wanted to reduce roll and didn't mind the fact that it would also increase the spring rate.

Around here, the advice to noobies is to restore the car first to as new OEM specifications before attempting modifications.

Those that don't never understand how good the car performs when new.

Don't confuse static looks with dynamic function.

The SPAQ (Society to Prevent Abuse of Q45s) will be watching you!

[ScottJackson]

I agree that new bushings and shocks will do much for the handling of a car, but when you make a stock spring shorter (either by cutting or by welding coils together), you will also increase the spring rate. Increasing the spring rate has predictable effects. It's not easy to get exact figures on the specific degree to which you change it, you just know that the spring will require less distance of compression to build higher resistance. That said, my results were as expected. Small bumps are a little more harsh and big bumps don't compress the suspension to a greater degree of difference than the small bumps do. Lowering the car will also reduce body roll. Of course, factory suspension geometry is designed to use the factory ride height so you havta reset the toe and make sure camber isn't too far off. Of course the further you go from stock height, the more things are likely to get out of whack.

[Q_SHIP]

Be careful if you ever have to take those welded springs off of the car. Sounds like a loaded gun.

[qsiguy]

Scott, do you have any photos of your welded springs? I'd like to see what yours looked like. I suppose if you welded it slow you could drop it pretty much any amount, just weld more around the coil to the desired drop.

[Q45tech]

HICAS doesnt bother us too much, in fact it makes setting the rear toe possible from the factory.... you cant otherwise ?????

Standard Q all have rear concentric toe adjustment bolts.

If a stock Q doesn't set up to the exact midpoint of spec range , you will find worn rubber bushings or bent suspension from miles..........wrecks or curb impacts are another more severe case!

When you lower the body ALL EVERY suspension angle changes, therefore adjustable arms and spacers are required to return the angles to oem.

Front toe angle [bump steer] requires that the rack be raised or the tie rod end spaced downward................to get the tie rod parallel with the road.

Every brand and make reacts the same wau to lowering however the amounts of errors created may vary with the exact type of suspension.

NEVER ACCEPT an a alignment that is in the wide oem range, the exact midpoint is the only really suitable point!

[maxnix]

... but when you make a stock spring shorter (either by cutting or by welding coils together), you will also increase the spring rate.

How so? If no heat is involved, spring rate for the remainder of the spring is the same. The only thing lost besides suspension travel is the initial spring compression rate presuming you are cutting from the top on most springs.

Kind of makes you wish for torsion bars, doesn't it?

[ScottJackson]

I'll try to get some pics of my spring welding when it's not icy and -4* outside (as it is now). You kinda have to drop by complete coil gaps, meaning that you have to weld 180* apart so the spring stays straight. If you just weld one side of the spring, it bends the spring and bows it in the middle. The spring rate is the amount of pressure required to compress it a defined distance (normally lbs per inch). If you shorten a spring, the wire will now be stressed more than the longer spring with the same amount of compressed total distance. That's what increases the spring rate while the only change that's been made is spring length.

[qsiguy]

Ok, I understand the 180* deal now. Makes sense. Certainly wouldn't want the springs to be all "lopsided"