How can I COMPLETELY defeat "Driver Aids"?

[NGooding]

Hello,

I am considering purchase of a new G35. My only reluctance is the presence of electronic "Driver Aids".

I detest Stability Control and Traction Control and am forever skeptical of the "Off" button - they often do not completely defeat the systems. The Porsche Cayman for example, will activate the Stability Control System if ABS is engaged, even when in the "Off" position. Does anyone know (for certain) if the Stability Control and Traction Control systems are COMPLETELY defeated when the button is in the "Off" position? If not, do you know the criteria under which those systems will activate when the button is in the "Off" position (i.e. higher threshold, when ABS is activated, etc.)?

Similarly, I do not ever want the Brake Assist system to function. In all honesty, I have never felt such a system in action, but it's presence concerns me nonetheless. My braking inputs are always deliberate; the last thing I want is interference from a computer designed to assist untrained drivers. Does anyone know (for certain) if it's possible to defeat this system?

Finally, if aftermarket mods would be required to defeat these systems, where can I get them? Would they void my warranty?

Thanks much,

- Concerned Purist

[Q45tech]

Your warranty is one on every individual part of the tens of thousands items.

Not really a systems warranty.................a failed part gets replaced and failed parts caused by some modification you did are just that not replaced under warranty.

If you kill someone important in an accident they may hire inspectors to go over the car with a fine tooth comb.

Unfortunately the air bag computer monitors, records, and permanently stores engine, speed, brake, and other paramters for future legal analysis.

Fiddling with brakes, traction, dynamic handling, brake pad mods, will all show up in court to roast yor behind.

[NGooding]

I appreciate your concern, but I'm seeking technical advice, not legal council.

We aren't talking about Traction Control programs at the Formula 1 level. The systems we find in street cars are very conservative, designed to aid the average driver (which I am not, and any Court would agree). Because the average driver lacks the experience and training to develop car control skills at the limit, we can expect him to make very poor inputs in an emergency.

Consequently, "Driver Aids" are not designed to enhance performance, but to account for driver inadequacy. The program assumes that the driver's corrections to a loss of grip will be poor, and attempts to compensate. In the hands of a skilled driver, this becomes a hindrance - it misinterprets skillful inputs, and makes unnecessary corrections of its own. This introduces an unwanted variable, making the car unpredictable and less safe.

This doesn't even begin to speak to conditions where measured oversteer can be an effective and safe mode of driving (winter conditions, for example). Suffice it to say, disabling Stability Control, Traction Control, and Brake Assist on my car would be a responsible decision, not a negligent one.

But if it makes you feel better, let's assume this car will be used for racing purposes only. Certainly, I will want the ability to rotate the car around slow corners without interference from the Stability Control, Traction Control, or Brake Assist systems. So I'm back to my original questions:1) Does the "Off" button TRULY defeat Traction Control and Stability Control, or do they remain on in the background like the Cayman?2) If they remain on in the background, what are my aftermarket options to kill them completely?3) How can I ensure that Brake Assist will not interfere with my driving? If I squeeze the brakes, it is deliberate. If I release the brakes, I do so for a reason. I do not want a computer telling me what "I really meant to do".

Thank you all for your help,

- Concerned Purist
Modified by NGooding at 9:45 PM 5/7/2007

[NGooding]

Does anyone else feel that Driver Aids detract from the experience?

[zozoka1212]

Only when you wanna play a bit. I've got the 07 sedan I think even the AWD doesn't turn off when you turn off the VDC. I am not 100% sure. But it feels like it. I turned off a lot at winter time when I was playing in the parking lot. Since that just sometimes when I go crazy.

zozoka

[04G356MT]

We aren't talking about Traction Control programs at the Formula 1 level. The systems we find in street cars are very conservative, designed to aid the average driver (which I am not, and any Court would agree). Because the average driver lacks the experience and training to develop car control skills at the limit, we can expect him to make very poor inputs in an emergency.

Care to explain?? Ive been driving since i could reach the pedals, Ive takin just about every driving course there is to offer. I myself and the many people around me consider myself a very far above average driver and only 21 but let me tell you this when my last car was totaled and an older male ran a stop sign and hit me... do you know how much the court cared that i was a above average driver. They didnt he was older. I was 21 with a nice sports car with mods. Of course it was my fault right? I know what your saying with Driver Aids I drive with my TCS off everyday first thing I do when I get in the car. But saying the court would understand when you tell them your a above average driver when you hydroplaned into a lady on the curb isnt going to help you any.

K well im done ranting... and feel better lol

[joe603]

I know that the VDC has the "off" button for winter driving (if you get stuck). I've driven with it off, and engaged the ABS-the VDC did not turn back on. So to answer your question, I believe that if you turn it off, it remains off (speaking for 05 coupes).

[smockers83]

to answer the questions:

1) The manual says nothing about what the system does when its off besides that its off and not working. But if my memory serves me correctly, I've read somewhere that when its off, it kicks back on when it senses substantial loss of control, what that means I'm not sure. Don't quote me on that either. But you also see people doing burnouts, racing, etc, with VDC off without complaints (that I've heard of). Again if I remember right, back in the day there was a thread about this subject so do a little searching.

2) Not sure on your aftermarket systems, you'd really have to look into pure racing companies though...not to many companies will want to sell something that kills something that is seen as nearly necessary by the government.

3) Brake assist will not keep the brakes on when you release the brakes...why and who would develop a system that would do that? I don't even think this car has any brake assist besides ABS and ABLS. If you haven't felt it ever before, don't worry about it.

Disabling it completely if the switch doesn't do so with aftermarket options will most likely void the warranty. I know if I were the top dogs at Infiniti and someone did that to their G35, I would not cover it as it is a "core component" to the car's functions.

[NGooding]

Thank you everyone for your help.

Regarding my experience, I have raced professionally, worked as chief instructor at major schools, and testified in court as a driving safety expert. Regardless, the legality is not my concern.

As for Stability Control kicking in even when off, it's the "substantial loss of control" issue that concerns me. I do not want to be surprised by electronic interference just because the computer has decided I'm "too" sideways. I'm a better judge of that than the software. The car's ability to do a burnout doesn't necessarily prove that Stability Control is defeated. Burnouts are a function of wheelspin, and would be "controlled" by traction control. Oversteer is a function of yaw angle v velocity (vector), and would be "controlled" by stability control.

Those of you who've played with Stability Control off in winter conditions, did the car allow you to do donuts without any perceptible interference? That might be a better indication.

Regarding Brake Assist, I don't have experience with it because I haven't spent enough time behind the wheel of the new G35. But it definitely affects brake pressure. I'll quote the Infiniti website: "In emergency situations, many drivers don't brake hard enough, soon enough. Brake Assist monitors how you apply the brakes and, sensing emergency braking, applies maximum brake pressure for potentially shorter stops." If I want maximum pressure, I'll use it. I don't know if it will impact my driving, but I do not want it interfering as I try to toss the car into a corner.

Anyway, thank you again for your help. I think we're getting closer to the real answers!

Modified by NGooding at 1:40 PM 5/9/2007
Modified by NGooding at 1:41 PM 5/9/2007

[joe603]

NGooding, sent you an e-mail...

[kmech_7]

the G does have a brake assist. it works in conjunction with the vdc. if you power too hard into a corner and you are about to brake traction your car will power down the engine with you still haveing control and apply the brakes in abs mode(pulsing untill you are back under contol). to compleatly turn this off push the off button and remove the brake light fuse. sounds quarky but it works.

[g35sedanlover]

I have a 2003 auto sedan. When I am in the snow and turn the VDC off it will let me spin, but as soon as the back end comes out, the stability control still kicks in (it will still let me spin when it kicks in). It actually does a decent job of helping to pull the back end in (or makes it harder to hold it out when I am messing around). I did just do a dry pavement whip and I didn't notice it kicking in (when the back-end came out I kept it down and held it sideways for quite a bit and still nothing, and I was pretty close to stear stop).

I think that if you are on dry payment and turn off the VDC, you have to do a lot to get it to kick in, more so then a long heavy whip. If you are messing around in the snow, it kicks in pretty easily ( I would like to know how to turn this off for that reason too).