how badly do people want to see a high intensity all motor CA18 build?

[themadscientist]

I have many parts and I need to slap together something to get the 180 moving under it's own power. I don't want to get involved in a beast turbo motor right now so I thought it might be fun to build a pretty serious NA motor. Learning to work the Haltech would be less dangerous too. You guys think a 200hp all motor CA would be fun to see?

[ca18detgabby]

200 NA RWHP would be hot........but why?? wouldnt the same money in a DET yeild untold power with less work.

[Myetball]

I don't think money:hp ratio is the point.

I'd love to see what it takes to get 200 na/hp from a CA.

I've still got a like new na CA in my garage waiting for the right car.

[themadscientist]

Because I am a freak and I have half the parts to do it.

In my 180 it's pretty silly, the car is too heavy but for those guys who are sticking these in lightweight cars NA is a viable route but I have never seen anybody do it. I messed with old Q Silvia and up top that thing could stick with RB20DETs but was useless from a dead dig. It was internally stock with a header, a light flywheel and an SAFC, dynoed it at 150hp before it started jumping off the rollers. It was stripped to raw steel and damned near hachiroku weight; I could run with those too much to their frustration.

I found a place that still makes high comp domed pistons for a CA20 stroker and I have the CA20 crank in the corner. I have the carb manifold and can get some 45 DCOE injection throttlebodies that would carry over to the turbo motor if I wanted so they would not be a waste. I already have the Haltech which is one of the limiting factors when trying to go ITB, the stock ECU and MAF. I need a header, I sold the old one but I can snap up a used one for like $50, etc etc.

[darkspoon]

Would be nice to see, but Good luck lol. Maybe crank power but whp?!

[themadscientist]

my old Q rolled the dyno at 150 bone stock

[audtatious]

If you build it, we will watch. Take lots of pix and get to 200NA and I will make a big NICO article out of it for the homepage and 240sx.org

[themadscientist]

can I wear a thong?

[psilocyben]

I would like to see one. I will give you cake too!!

[Myetball]

can I wear a thong?

Only if it's the same kind Borat wore

[Buddyworm]

A build like that would be awesome. Especially with high compression and the Webers. You'd have to properly resonate the exhaust though, lest it sounds like a civic with a department stoor exhaust. Actually, I saw a high-comp N/A Q's go through a jap auction once. Looked really clean, but was pretty modded all over. A fully authentic Japanese boy-racer type of car. http://www.importconcern.ca/st...00403 SR20DE though, probably wouldn't sound as nice as the CA.

[themadscientist]

my old DE had an HKS legal exhaust and 4-2-1 header. It sounded like a big GSXR and revved like one too. It didn't have a real deep note like an old L or FJ would but wasn't buzzy either.

[rico05]

I vote you do this. Take lots of pics. Then sell it to me for $50 to drop into an S12. I hate you and the fact that you live in JDM and have access to all the good stuff.

[ragenasian]

So you are finally going to use that carb manifold I sent you huh. Do you want me to send you that RSR header I got

Too bad those 4 port heads I sent you won't work with that mani.

[r34 gtr]

Does a bear sh*t in the woods?

[ca18detgabby]

Because I am a freak and I have half the parts to do it.

In my 180 it's pretty silly, the car is too heavy but for those guys who are sticking these in lightweight cars NA is a viable route but I have never seen anybody do it. I messed with old Q Silvia and up top that thing could stick with RB20DETs but was useless from a dead dig. It was internally stock with a header, a light flywheel and an SAFC, dynoed it at 150hp before it started jumping off the rollers. It was stripped to raw steel and damned near hachiroku weight; I could run with those too much to their frustration.

I found a place that still makes high comp domed pistons for a CA20 stroker and I have the CA20 crank in the corner. I have the carb manifold and can get some 45 DCOE injection throttlebodies that would carry over to the turbo motor if I wanted so they would not be a waste. I already have the Haltech which is one of the limiting factors when trying to go ITB, the stock ECU and MAF. I need a header, I sold the old one but I can snap up a used one for like $50, etc etc.

I hate you for even having access for this stuff and not sharing

that would a crazy build

[DALAZ_68]

woah woah....so CA20 cranks and pistons/rods fit the CA18...whats the benifit gains on this...

[themadscientist]

the CA20 crank fits the mains but the timing gear drive must be modified. If I decide this is worthwhile to do I will explain ho to do that. The CA20 has a taller deck so if you used those rod the piston would pop right out of the top of the block.The fabled Tomei CA20 kit is nothing more than a modified CA20 crank and pistons with a higher pin height to absorb the longer stroke. Nothing amazing really.The problem I have is the set up increases rod angularity and I am not sure the gains on the bottom are worth the tradeoff. The CA is a small engine so it will never be a stump puller. I think going NA requires we admit that and push the revs higher, the CA20 setup goes in the other direction.

[mod_mastaz]

Have you thought about running a 20e block with all other 18det stuff(head girdle etc). That timing gear, as well as timing belt length, will be the biggest issue with a 20e block with a 18det head. Not sure if all other accessories will be bolt on also(alternator, PS etc).

[themadscientist]

Get out of my head. I thought I was the only one who wanted to destroke a 20.

[r34 gtr]

Isnt the ca20 block weaker than that of the 'ol ca18?

[float_6969]

I've talked to 2 different local engine builder's that are very reputable and they have both said that the rod ratio doesn't actually make much of a difference unless you are building a motor that is using some sort of restrictor plate.

You still have the risk of getting too short of a rod ratio and the piston out running the flame front at higher rpm's, but I can't imagine that Tomei wouldn't research something like that.

[themadscientist]

To discount rod ratio as it contributes to angularity to the crank throw is to deny basic physics. The CA18 has some short rods already which imparts increased angularity to the direction of force. Inefficient and putting more wear on the cylinders. Add a stroke increase and you have made it worse. I would not go 20 crank in an 18 block. I would do the opposite though but not in a boosted application.Most of the fast CAs back when CAs were common were not 2.0s but 1.9s, just a bore increase. the deck height is too short to really benefit from a stroke increase.

[mod_mastaz]

What about running a 20e crank/rods(aftermarket) in a 20e block, with custom pistons and 18det everything else? I thought about just a straight head swap, but the work involved in the timing gear and belt pushed me away. As for those that say the 20e block is weaker, I don't think so. The 20e and ET share some of the same accessories and they look almost identical with the exception that the 20e block is longer. For those that don't know, the ET and the DET block is identical, minus a few things, like the oil squirters and idlier pulley which don't have the holes drilled out for it. If anything, you could block fill it up to the water drain plugs like the V8 guys do.

As you can tell, I thought a lot about this haha. If only there was a solution for the timing components. I've mixed and match my share of suspension and electrical parts. When it comes to engines, I'm not confident or knowledgeable enough to mess with something as important and expensive.

Edit: I meant water freeze plugs. Oh and I was thinking about a boosted 20det BUT a 18det is more than enough for my power goals haha. Either way, it was a fun idea to kick around.

[rico05]

Seriously. Side load in a major concern when stroking a motor. Change that rod ratio and you better be looking at more than pin heights and ring land thickness.

TMS, do you happen to know the deck height of the CA20? Just for my edification really.

[themadscientist]

I have a CA20 block I messed around with and the major sticking points I found are

CA20 head bolts are smaller, the block must be drilled up and tapped for CA18 bolts. Also the CA18 head bolt holes are sunk with the threads starting below th deck where the 20 runs the threads clear up to the block surface. I actually drilled and tapped the block myself, big pucker moment. I dropped tyhe CA18 head on and torqued it down then I grabbed it by the head to move the engine stand and it wiggled! The 20 bolt holes need to be drilled up AND deeper; the head bolts had bottomed Not sure if I can redrill and not destroy the threads I already cut so I gave up.The crank must be modified to drive the 18s belt gear but that is easly done by any competent machine shop.The belt tensioner must be moved but there is an obvious spot in the block with plenty of meat to host the stud.I think there was a few water passages that needed to be reshaped etc but overall it is not really that hard you just have to take your time and check everything before you go balls deep drilling stuff like me

[float_6969]

I'm not saying that rod angularity isn't important, but that stroking the CA still yeilds a higher rod ratio than other proven stroked combo's (the SR22 is a perfect example). Regardless, if you're going to spin it fast (big cams), I wouldn't mess with a stroker motor.

[themadscientist]

The CA has such a short deck height it's already not great from an angularity perspective.

[themadscientist]

Well, I estimate the price of a full sidedraft ITB set up at close to $1500. For that price I can get well over 500hp worth of turbo so that is just dumb.

[r34 gtr]

Well, I estimate the price of a full sidedraft ITB set up at close to $1500.

dude, no way. Just scrounge up some GSXR1000 ITB's and fab up a mounting plate. You'll be running it with Haltech so its not like running them is a problem. You could do this for well under $400.