"Hot Coffee" & Tort Reform

[IBCoupe]

Lady goes to McDonalds, buys coffee, and spills it on her lap while she's driving away. She sues 'cause the coffee's too hot, and gets two million dollars! Crazy, right? And a lie.

A new documentary explores the extent to which major corporations perpetuated a myth about an actual tragedy, and about others, in order to limit corporate liability and enact tort reform.

The facts? The woman was in the car with her grandson, and she wasn't driving. The car had no cup-holders, so after they bought the coffee with her meal, they pulled into a parking spot in order to pour in cream and sugar. When she attempted to remove the lid, the 187-degree coffee caused the styrofoam cup to disintegrate, and within fifteen seconds, she had suffered third-degree burns over 16% of her body, including over her genitals.

It took a day of surgery to complete the skin grafts, and another two years of therapy afterwards for her to fully recover. When Medicare's compensation fell short, the woman's daughter wrote McDonald's, asking for the difference ($11,000) and for them to check the temperatures of their coffee, as they are dangerously high.

McDonald's wrote back with an offer for $800. They sued, always asking for the difference between what Medicare paid and the cost of her treatment. As it turns out, McDonald's kept their coffee between 180 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit as a matter of policy, and that 700 individuals had complained because of injuries sustained (worked out to about one person per week).

A jury awarded $200,000 in compensatory damages, and the Judge reduced it to $160,000. The jury awarded $2.3 million dollars in punitive damages, which was equal to the profit McDonald's made on coffee in two days. Eventually, her total reward was reduced to $640,000.

We're not overly litigious. People don't get rich by suing. We don't have an overabundance of frivolous lawsuits. Get your hands off my perfectly-functional legal system.

[mattblancarte]

That's pretty interesting.

Not surprising at all that corporations would engage in that kind of tactic. Corporate lawyers... Scheming and conniving... Who would have thought this possible?!

[BusyBadger]

lawyers... Scheming and conniving... Who would have thought this possible?!

Fixed.

[Cold_Zero]

Why does the coffee have to be so blasted hot? When you go through the drive through you can't even drink the stupid stuff until you get home because it is at 'magma' heat levels. It is my understanding that you dont want coffee too hot because 1. it can cook the coffee and make it taste bad 2. your taste buds cant function so that you can taste the coffee. Oh well, I may have just answered my own question.

[R/T Hemi]

In 1999, Daniel Dukes, a 27 year old moran from Florida hatched a clever plot so that he could have his life long dream of swimming with a whale fulfilled. He hid from the security guards at Sea World and managed to stay in the park after closing. Shortly after, he dived into the tank containing a killer whale – fulfilling his dream. Daniel was killed by the whale. His parents proceeded to sue Sea World because they did not display public warnings that the whale (Tillikum) could kill people. They also claim that the whale is wrongly portrayed as friendly because of the stuffed toys sold there. Tillikum is pictured above at Sea World, where the trainers will not enter the pool with him due to the fact that he has now been involved in two deaths.

A 27 year old New Yorker is suing Subway because he took a bite of a sandwhich and found a 7 inch knife baked into the bread. The knife did not cut him and he did not swallow it. The reason he is suing is because he was violently ill with “severe stomach issues” for three hours and he claims that he caught food poisoning from the handle of the knife which was plastic and, according to the man, filthy. He is suing for $1,000,000.

Marcy Noriega, a California police officer decided to tase a suspect in the back of her car when he became uncontrollable and started kicking at the windows. Noriega drew her taser from her belt and fired it at the man. Unfortunately for the crook, the officer had accidentally drawn her gun instead, and she shot him in the chest – killing him. The city is now suing the taser company, arguing that any reasonable officer could mistakenly draw and shoot their gun instead of their taser. They are suing for the full costs of the wrongful death lawsuit which the man’s family has filed against the city.


This is a recent case in which a 52 year old traffic officer from Los Angeles sued Victoria’s Secret for damage to her eye. The damage was caused, claims the cop (Macrida Patterson), when she was trying on a new thong. The tight fit caused a metal clip to fly off hitting her in the eye. The case was filed on June 9, 2008 and Officer Patterson is seeking unspecified damages. The courts have not yet informed the officer that as a traffic cop, she doesn’t need fancy underwear as she is unlikely to ever have a date anyway.

PETA, the often-insane animal loving organization held an anti-hunt protest in 2001 – defending the rights of deer to live. On they way home from the protest, two members hit a deer which had run on to the highway. The members informed the New Jersey Division of Fish and and Wildlife that they intended to sue for damages and injuries. In their letter they stated that the Division were responsible for the damages “as a result of their deer management program, which includes, in certain circumstances, an affirmative effort to increase deer population.”

Yep, frivolous lawsuits never happen.

Edit - http://listverse.com/2009/01/28/top-10- ... -lawsuits/

[bigbadberry3]

Good killer whale is killer.

[IBCoupe]

We don't have an overabundance of frivolous lawsuits.

Yep, frivolous lawsuits never happen.

Edit by Mod: Personal attacks in this thread have been edited.

Edit by IBCoupe: That's a strawman.

You know what pisses me off the most about your link? It lists as #1 the very story I've just explained.

But let's go through them:
#10:
Guy sues himself to try and prove he's insane to be imprisoned at an institution, rather than a prison. Result? Case dismissed.

#9:
Family sues Seaworld when their son dies there. They drop the case. But, did you know that, to date, that whale has killed three people, including the mentally-disturbed man at issue here?

#8:
Guy gets food poisoning from a knife baked into his sandwich. Really think that's frivolous, do ya?

#7:
Crazy person believes magicians are defying the laws of physics. How much do you want to bet that this case was dismissed?

#6:
Familiar with tazer grips in California are you? Pistol grips? Familiar with attempting to subdue a prisoner in a rush? Not going one way or the other on it, but that seems far from frivolous.

#5:
Woman tries on underwear and it breaks and hits her in the eye. Do you really think that there's a situation where it ought to be expected that when you try on underwear that it attempts to blind you?

#4:
PETA announced an intent to bring that suit, but it never materialized.

#3:
Dismissed.

#2:
Israeli law.

#1:
ARE YOU f*** KIDDING ME.

My point is not that there aren't ever frivolous lawsuits, it's that there aren't a lot of them and there are already safeguards to prevent them from getting very far. For god's sake, this is what's wrong, and was the exact point of this thread, that documentary, and now my response to you. You are being manipulated by people with a vested interest in limiting the amount of money they can be liable for.

[R/T Hemi]

. . .
ARE YOU f**king KIDDING ME.

My point is not that there aren't ever frivolous lawsuits, it's that there aren't a lot of them and there are already safeguards to prevent them from getting very far. For god's sake, this is what's wrong, and was the exact point of this thread, that documentary, and now my response to you. You are being manipulated by people with a vested interest in limiting the amount of money they can be liable for.

I disagree. The problem is that the law schools are turning out graduates faster than China is making pencils. The supply far exceeds the demand. These graduates, faced with a choice between starving or participating in some frivolous lawsuit, choose the latter. Breed more attorneys and you'll have more lawsuits.

In America today there is one lawyer for every 200 adults. And if you live in Austin, Texas it is about 1 out of 100.
With odds like that, it's no wonder the courts are so screwed up.

1,143,358 lawyers. And our nation's 192 accredited and often subsidized law schools are graduating 40,000 new lawyers each year as they have consistently for the last 20 years. In a decade we will have 1,500,000 lawyers. A 50% increase.

[IBCoupe]

As cute as that is, probably the vast majority of those lawyers are transactional, but as you've provided no citation, I can't check in any meaningful way.

But what you haven't done is contradict my claim that we lack an overabundance of frivolous litigation, or that current judicial checks are sufficient.

[R/T Hemi]

Here's a few.

According to a rumor circulated by the American Bar Association, there are currently 1,116,967 lawyers practicing in the United States. http://www.azfinestlawyers.org/index.ph ... tid=17:faq

http://www.slate.com/id/2272621/

http://www.professorbainbridge.com/prof ... hools.html

[IBCoupe]

Which still doesn't actually address anything.

[heliochrome85]

i await the conclusion of your games of poke and tickle.

[IBCoupe]

i await the conclusion of your games of poke and tickle.

u jelly?

[heliochrome85]

...jes.

[Cold_Zero]

Let me reiterate that I thought this thread was about coffee and that the Arabs brew the best coffee in the world.

[R/T Hemi]

Which still doesn't actually address anything.

Well, let's do the math.

According to the ABA, there are over 1 million lawyers. The population of the US is what, 300 million? Take out all the children and lawyers, their families, etc. And I believe 1 lawyer per 200 people is a valid figure. That's not the kind of odds that's going to result in a full appointment book for any lawyer. That's a formula for frivolous lawsuits.

Here's another one for you... Man slips on pile of dog crap....and files a $1 million negligence lawsuit over the errant poop.

Robert Holloway is claiming these injuries in U.S. District Court this week in his lawsuit against a Virginia PetSmart. He alleges that the store fostered a hazardous condition by permitting pooches to poop there. According to an article in the Virginian Pilot, the suit says PetSmart and its employees “negligently allowed animals to enter the premises and deposit feces in such a manner as to create a dangerous and hazardous condition.”

[szh]

But IBcoupe is not saying that there aren't any frivolous lawsuits ... just that there aren't an overabundance of them! And, probably not enough to say that the legal system is materially affected in any way.

So, examining the number of lawyers or the number of frivolous lawsuits is not worth the effort ... other than the ha-ha value of some of them!

Z

[R/T Hemi]

What's an overabundance? How many is too many? All in all, frivolous lawsuits cost American businesses over $865 billion per year, according to the Pacific Research Institute. That’s a whole 2.2 percent of the United States’ annual GDP spent on tort costs, compared to the United Kingdom’s 0.8 percent and Japan’s 0.8 percent. That from America's Best, the Magazine for small business owners. http://www.americasbestcompanies.com/ma ... suits.aspx

If the ABA is correct and we're about to see a 40% increase in the number of lawyers over the next decade, then one should expect a correspond increase in frivolous law suits.

Care to rethink your definition of "overabundance" my good man?

[AZhitman]

While I get (and agree with) what Isaac is pointing out, the fact remains that they DO exist, and the system often DOES fail.

With that said, I believe in the system, but I also know it's not perfect, can be improved, and doesn't need vehement defense from a sparkly law student.

There's not an "overabundnce" of gays wanting to be married. We still need to consider their rights.
There's not an "overabundance" of so-called "hate crimes". Doesn't mean we ignore their significance.
There's not an "overabundance" of innocent people executed for capitol crimes. Doesn't mean we shouldn't give everyone charged access to due process.

Let the criticisms rain down. They're not hurting anything, especially if we've already identified the "tactics" allegedly employed by "major corporations".

[heliochrome85]

GREG brings the truth like the hammers of THOR.

[Cold_Zero]

I thought it was just the heat going to his head.

[AZhitman]

GREG brings the truth like the hammers of THOR.

[srellim234]

While I get (and agree with) what Isaac is pointing out, the fact remains that they DO exist, and the system often DOES fail.

With that said, I believe in the system, but I also know it's not perfect, can be improved, and doesn't need vehement defense from a sparkly law student.

There's not an "overabundnce" of gays wanting to be married. We still need to consider their rights.
There's not an "overabundance" of so-called "hate crimes". Doesn't mean we ignore their significance.
There's not an "overabundance" of innocent people executed for capitol crimes. Doesn't mean we shouldn't give everyone charged access to due process.

Let the criticisms rain down. They're not hurting anything, especially if we've already identified the "tactics" allegedly employed by "major corporations".

There's not an "overabundance" of factory workers who light up or drink on their lunch hours yet you insist on denying them due process!

[R/T Hemi]

You know what scares me more than anything around here? What really concerns me?

IF Greg makes a sharp turn, some of you are going to break your noses.

That's my bon mot for the day.

@ srellim234, your last post was dead on my friend.

[AZhitman]

There's not an "overabundance" of factory workers who light up or drink on their lunch hours yet you insist on denying them due process!

Where'd I do that?

Their "due process" is different from the "due process" I would receive as an employee. That's disparate treatment you're advocating. Why is that?

Why should they be treated any differently than you or I?

[AZhitman]

IF Greg makes a sharp turn, some of you are going to break your noses.

I can't help it if your credibility is suspect due to the number of factual inaccuracies you've floated.

[srellim234]

Absolutely you did, Greg, Their due process as spelled out in their employment contract probably dictates the suspension without pay until all of the tapes are reviewed, parties and witnesses are interviewed and then the punishment, whether it be termination or other form, is enforced. You wanted to know why they weren't already terminated.

Likewise, absent an employment contract, a responsible employer wishing to protect his company from wrongful termination lawsuits will remove a worker in those circumstances (suspension with or without pay) until all tapes are viewed, suspects and witnesses are interviewed. Then the longer term punishment is enforced.

The due process is almost identical in both cases; the only difference is that one spells out the entire process in writing, step-by-step. Which is exactly what Chrysler and the union are doing.

[R/T Hemi]

IF Greg makes a sharp turn, some of you are going to break your noses.

I can't help it if your credibility is suspect due to the number of factual inaccuracies you've floated.

Trust me. Don't turn sharp of stop suddenly.

[Encryptshun]

A 27 year old New Yorker is suing Subway because he took a bite of a sandwhich and found a 7 inch knife baked into the bread. The knife did not cut him and he did not swallow it. The reason he is suing is because he was violently ill with “severe stomach issues” for three hours and he claims that he caught food poisoning from the handle of the knife which was plastic and, according to the man, filthy. He is suing for $1,000,000.

Let's look at this one just for the lulz. I eat at Subway on occasion, and I can tell you that their sandwiches only come in 2 sizes -- 6" and 12". The store always cuts its bread down the center lengthwise before adding the toppings and, in the case of the foot-long, divides the sammich into two 6" halves.

*looks up*

*reads carefully*

Tell me, even if we forget for a moment that all Subway bread is shipped as frozen dough produced by contract manufacturers who don't use knifes in their processing (trust me, I know) and therefore the only way a Subway knife could be baked into a loaf of Subway bread is for an employee to literally shove it in there, how could Subway bake a 7 inch knife in a piece of bread that's only 6 inches long?

[AZhitman]

The fact that he sued doesn't make Subway culpable, nor does it mean the story is even true. I call shens.