Horrible noise, whine in system..

[Blood1]

Okay today was a PITA!! I went back to the install place, 6th Ave & we spent several hours trying to eliminate the noise coming over my system. I purchased high end RCA cables to check if that was the cause but no. We pulled the deck out, disconnected the old RCA's and I directly plugged in the much better ones into the head unit straight to the amp and we still hear that terrible noise when we pressed on the gas.

We checked the AMP's ground, tired the filling away the paint to bear metal, and we actually moved it to a bolt under the rear seat where the seat belts were held in by.. Still noise.

We even tried running a ground wire into each RCA, then out attached to the grounding point and still Noise!!!

I looked at the head unit, and saw it was grounded by being screwed into the metal bar running behind the HU, right under the AC vents, this metal bar is welded to the chassis.

One thing I noticed but didn't think about till now was, I have an 2.5 SL so it has that digital read out on the AC controls.

We ended up putting the noise loop isolators back on b/c nothing was helping, but as we put them back in, when we moved them towards the right side of where the HU is, the noise would get worse, when we pulled back out it went away.

Now that i think about it, could this noise be coming from the power line of the Antenna?

We would have tried wrapping the RCA's in Aluminum foil to protect/sheild them more but we didn't have on hand.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to get this g-dam wine under control?

I didn't do the Big-3 upgrade yet but that's on my list. It's just extremely annoying not being able to figure this out.

Every grounding point is touching, securely to the chassis of the car.

[rjdmmfl1]

Okay today was a PITA!! I went back to the install place, 6th Ave & we spent several hours trying to eliminate the noise coming over my system. I purchased high end RCA cables to check if that was the cause but no. We pulled the deck out, disconnected the old RCA's and I directly plugged in the much better ones into the head unit straight to the amp and we still hear that terrible noise when we pressed on the gas.

We checked the AMP's ground, tired the filling away the paint to bear metal, and we actually moved it to a bolt under the rear seat where the seat belts were held in by.. Still noise.

We even tried running a ground wire into each RCA, then out attached to the grounding point and still Noise!!!

I looked at the head unit, and saw it was grounded by being screwed into the metal bar running behind the HU, right under the AC vents, this metal bar is welded to the chassis.

One thing I noticed but didn't think about till now was, I have an 2.5 SL so it has that digital read out on the AC controls.

We ended up putting the noise loop isolators back on b/c nothing was helping, but as we put them back in, when we moved them towards the right side of where the HU is, the noise would get worse, when we pulled back out it went away.

Now that i think about it, could this noise be coming from the power line of the Antenna?

We would have tried wrapping the RCA's in Aluminum foil to protect/sheild them more but we didn't have on hand.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to get this g-dam wine under control?

I didn't do the Big-3 upgrade yet but that's on my list. It's just extremely annoying not being able to figure this out.

Every grounding point is touching, securely to the chassis of the car.

well, you've gone through the normal troubleshooting points... as you mentioned, it could VERY WELL be the power antenna running next to the RCA's ... that's why we normally try to run the RCAs and power/ground on oppsotie sides of the vehicle. Any type of positive power source can cause static/engine noise, even in a properly grounded system. Aa lot of times, it just trial and error to find the cause... and it looks like you all may have found it!

[AppleBonker]

Wow, just noticed this thread too. My bad on the response on your previous thread. For a quick check, run a thicker cable from the negative of the battery to the chassis of the car (you don't even need to install it, you could just have someone hold it if they're careful). I'd be pretty confident that the big three will eliminate your issues (and the battery ground seems to help with whine more than the other upgrades - at least in my past experience).

[Blood1]

This completely sux A$$$..I spent another 6 hours today in my car trying to get rid of the noise and NO!! OF course not... why would it go away..Pulled out the unit and I first started off by removing the Noise Loop Isolators so I got that loud whine right in my ears. I worked with my dad this time. He had an whole spool of 10AWG wire so I ran this directly from the (-) terminal on the battery through the firewall to the back of the Head Unit.The previous installer guy had the ground for the HU, spliced into the ground for the steering wheel control box, and then into another ground coming from the wires from the stock wires from the factory unit, screwed into the reinforcement bar in the back. Well I disconnected that and then put the 3 wires, HU-Ground, PAWJAK-ground, and the factory-ground onto the 10AWG ground and clamped them all together. Turned it on and still same amount of noise.

Next we turned our attention to the battery which has corrosion on the terminals previously. My dad who's an Gen-Electrician A, said to clean them off, best way is to pour baking-soda and water onto the terminals mixed with water.Wow did that work. It started foaming and then we hit it with the hose and they looked brand new. (Just an FYI for anyone who does this, make 100% sure that your battery caps are closed tight b/c if any water gets in your battery fluid, it'll negate the acidity of your battery and drain it.) We then disconnected all the terminals scrubbed them with a wire brush and sprayed them with connector cleaner and it looked brand new. But still noise.

So then we moved onto the Big-3. I had welder's cable (thanks to my brother) and 0 gauge terminal connectors. We hooked it up from the Alternator to the (+) terminal on battery and we did the same for the (-) to the body chassis. I was really hoping that I would turn on and hear nothing but, the same EXACT NOISE. FU CAR!!!

I also then tried removing the RCA's and directly hooking up my ubber ones from the head unit directly to the AMP, same thing... noise and whining from gas.

I also hooking up my mp3 player to the AMP directly and did hear the noise at first then it went way after a song was played. I think its the same thing when I put the HU on standby. The noise goes away but when I switch it to an input like: Tuner, USB or CD the noise auto comes on since a signal is being sent to the amp.

I also did try disconnecting the power antenna and listening and still noise, whine...

So at this point I'm like:

My only other options to consider:1. The HU is bad? I'm thinking it could just have bad RCA outs on it and throwing this wonderful hmmmmm buzz. This was a display model that was out for only 2 weeks at the store. I bought it on the 10th of JUNE so I have time to bring it back and buy a different unit. I might do this if I can't get rid of this sh1t.

2. ??? : ????

In the end it was almost 9:00, dark out and I had to throw the NLI back onto the system b/c the noise just sucked! I put them near the amp this time b/c I coudln't get it perfect this time hooking them put in the back of the HU.

Plz anyone have any other ideas or suggestions? I didn't do the 3rd part of the big-3 b/c as I had the car turned on and was listing to this f-ing noise, I had my dad just put the 0-gauge cable to the engine block touching the chassis and nothing. We tried different parts with no change so it wouldn't of made a difference.

Oh and BTW the last time I brought it back to have the installer guy to try to fix the whine/noise we did replace the 1st AMP I bought thinking it might be the amp. We replaced with exact model again and same exact noise.So not the amp...
Modified by Blood1 at 10:30 AM 7/4/2009

[rjdmmfl1]

one last thing would be to switch out the HU.. go to best buy, get a head unit, and bench test it on your system to see if the noise changes... it would suck if after all of this, its the headunit.. but if that is the issue, at least you know how to fix it... by the way, which head unit do you have again?

.... in my buddy's car, he had the Kenwood Excelon 7120 head unit in his car, and then the DNX-8120.. and he had a slight engine whine that never went away (he has about $15k in audio equipment in his car) anyway, they removed the Kenwood, and installed an eclipse head unit, and the engine noise was completely gone....

so the headunit could indeed be the cause

[Blood1]

I have the Kenwood KDC-X792I'm thinking it has to be the HU. Everything is 100% grounded perfectly, wiring is perfect.Sux, I was just liking that head unit as well. I would like to switch it with another Kenwood so I don't have to re-wire everything and buy another harness but the store I got t from doesn't have another single DIN Kenwood that I liked.

[SuBXeRo]

Here is something i wanna share with you. I hd a 96 I30, bose HU died and i boguth an alpine HU. For the life of me, i used the rca metra harness, i could not get rid of the whine. WHINE WHINE WHINE, it was terrible. i troubleshot like you did, all this stuff, making sure grounds were good, this and that and had no solution.

Obviously the stock radios whether it be a bose clarion or not are designed to eliminate the whine by either isolating it with a built in isolator or actually removing the ground loop. My thoughts were that it was the power antenna on mine as well despite the fact that i trashed in in a car wash and had to remove the whole module. Granted, the car was older, who knows how all the wiring actually aged, regardless of that, i wound up purchasing 2 ground loop isolators from http://www.partsexpress.com and it solvd my issue, well hid the issue.

Unless an electrical engineer can explain how ground loops happen and whatt he viable and most likely sources are in a car we are left guessing and trying to fix it on our own. Some are able to solve whine because something was bad on the alt or grounds weren't good, fact is a car is quite complicated, alot of nooks and crannies and with more and more electronics being put into new cars it makes it that much more difficult.

I hate to say it though, you may not fix this and isolators may be the answer, you can try and try and try but it may not be worth the effort of changing wires and grounds and in doing so possibly messing up other things. I am all for doing things full and proper and isolators are a good and easy way to eliminate whine most of the time but it may be the only solution. Hope this helps and makes you feel a lil better that there are those out there siffering from whine, Good luck

[Blood1]

Okay, something did just blow my mind today. As I was driving home today the noise got worse. So when I got back home I just cracked open the HU and got behind there and was trying what biker said in another forum. Remove the factory ground line and just disconnect it.I turned the volume down to 0 and i hear the hissing.. I start to unwrap the tape where I have the 10AWG ground line and I pull off the factory ground line. No difference. At this point I'm extremely pissed off so I just pulled the HU's ground line off the 10AWG line I ran from the battery and it stayed on and sounded exactly the same. WTF? Um I thought the 2nd I disconnected the HU's ground line it would loose power but it didn't. And it also sounded exactly the same with the noise and everything.So i'm really confused here. I double checked that the installer did wire the right grounding line and I'm 100% positive that he did. But how can the unit stay on and the noise not get any worse or better?

I have the GLI (ground loop isolators) connected right at the amp level. Yet how is the noise getting worse. Could the big-3 make things worse?

I also did another test today with hooking up my mp3 player to the AMP via RCA's and the noise did go away. I disconnected both the HU's Front/Rear RCA's and connected the mp3's and it was gone. No wine when I hit the gas.So I'm thinking the noise is coming from the HU.
Modified by Blood1 at 10:56 PM 7/7/2009

[SuBXeRo]

i do recall a similar thing happening in mine. i had it installed and the original method was via the amp in the HU, this created a nasty signal that was very unclean, possibly why i didnt hear the whine or the whine was gone, it sounds like the HU is the issue. IMO, the best way to troubleshoot and the most intensive method would be to run ALL brand new wires to the speakersand isolate the HU from the car frame and power antenna and just create an isolated system in your car. Althought this is a rediculous way to go, if this didnt solve the issue, it could be the HU or not.

[AppleBonker]

Interesting. I can't say I've ever tried to run my head unit without the ground attached. I would think the same way you did and expect it not to work at all.

If you ran a different source to the amps and got no whine, it would certainly seem that the HU is adding the noise, or the RCA cables are being interfered with. My guess would initially be a grounding issue with the HU, but your little makeshift test throws all of that out. I'm definitely confused. I will be out of town this weekend, but maybe next weekend I can try to pull my head unit out and disconnect the ground and see what happens (like I said, never tried this before).

[Blood1]

Thanks Apple. Have fun...

I'm seriously about to loose it with this problem. SERIOUSLY!! When I'm In my house and turn on the fan, all I hear in my head is the whining. And I'm like no, I cannot be still hearing the whining. It's not possible..

-> -> -> -> -> ->

I'm even thinking about tyring to run a 10AWG line from the (+) to the back of the head unit to see if I can get clean power to the HU. The alternator/revving of the engine is really getting louder and I'm thinking it's just not a clean power signal. But if I did that I would have to put a fuse in line. Does anyone know what size fuse to be safe?

At this point, since I'm going crazy and really regret even bothering with this whole audio upgrade ordeal, I bought those aluminum foil lasagna trays and I want to try to mold them around the inside of where the HU resides to hopefully block any ambient EMF from the other computers that reside close by.

Last Item to try: Changing the HU to see if that makes a difference.

Doc, rjdmmfl1 do you have any ideas or are you out of them at this point?

[Blood1]

Okay, I might have found a clue as to why I'm getting this alternator whine.

Today for no reason I lowered the gain on the amp on both the AMP1 & AMP2 (Front & Rear) and I noticed the whine went away. Not completely but much, much reduced. By adjusting the gain on the amp, I'm just turning up/down the noise that's present on the input lines coming in.

So this really didn't help me at all in locating the source of noise.

I reduced it from 9/11 to like 8/11 and it's almost gone. Problem with this now is that when I crank up the volume to @ 20/35 it's not loud. I have raise it to like 25/26 but then the speakers start to distort.

I was thinking that maybe my 4 AWG power line wasn't a true 4 AWG so I took some pics of it next to my Big-3 wire that I used.According to wiki for Wiring Gauge Chart:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gaugethe 4 AWG is approximately 5mm in diameter so it looks right.

Here are the pics I took:Both Wires:

Boss 4 AWG Power line:

000 Gauge line I used for Big-3: (Welding Cable)
Modified by Blood1 at 2:39 PM 7/9/2009

[rtcpenguin]

Do you get the whine with the engine on only, or in ACC mode too (battery)?

[Blood1]

It's only when the engine is on. Ie the alternator engine whine noise...

[ja105ny]

did you get this figured out? because my system has got a whine in it too. goes louder with the higher rpm. just after i installed my new sound system.

[Blood1]

No I never figured this out. I still didn't install the new amp kit i got to replace the crappy one I bought. I'm using noise filters on it and it barely noticeable with them on. Just living with it.

[SuBXeRo]

ground loop isolators are the way to go.

i used these exact ones in my last car.http://www.parts-express.com/p...5-012

and read thishttp://www.bcae1.com/glisoltr.htm

[bthsburgess]

If you go with a ground loop isolator, be careful.

See if your local audio shop can lend you a spare one to try to stick in and then pull out if it doesn't work.

What happened with my system was that the ground loop just caused the whine to increase substanially because the problem was in the engine's ground and the alternator's lack of ability to keep up on the current draw.

I'd still recommend you go with a cap and an engine ground, I have still had no issues since I installed mine, and everything sounds a hundred times better in the cabin - I don't even have white noise on the lines when nothing is playing or the audio track runs out.



ja105ny, see this thread