home protection flaw?

[PoorManQ45]

So, I was reading a tread on another forum. One of the member's house was raided by 15 FBI agents in conjunction with the DDOS attacks on Visa, Mastercard, and Paypal.

The problem is they bang on the door and yell "police" and then proceed to break down the door and storm the place.

So, My first thoughts are, if that happened here I would be dead as my first instinct is to grab my loaded pistol and fire on the invader.

The issue here is that it is illegal to fire on an officer/agent while they are performing their "legal" duties. So if you don't die from all the gunshots you are going to be charged, and probably convicted, of murder/attempted murder.

So, this leads to a state of mind where if this situation occurs that you should not retrieve your weapon.

So, wouldn't this create a huge home protection flaw? If two guys with flashlights want to break into a house they could just bang on the door and yell police and shine there flashlights in while storming the house.

How are you supposed to treat this situation?

[tmeyer29]

Very valid point, first thing I would do it reach for gun also...leading to my death

[alms24sebring]

huh.., might as well just start shooting just to be safe. If they are real cops, just say you thought they were just people immatating cops so you shot... its a defense. Then you'll have to explain the 20 kilos of coke in your toilet tank.

[Eikon]

I'm no police officer, so I can't speak to this through personal experience, but.... My assumption is that if they intend to enter the property without your permission (ie. with a warrant), they are certainly going to do it an orchestrated and FAST method, so as to prevent the occupant from either destroying what the cops came to get or worse... arming themselves.

I wouldn't lose sleep over this... know that if the cops ever come to your house and intend to enter without your permission, you won't have time to start firing at them. That is exactly what they are trained for.

[PoorManQ45]

I wouldn't lose sleep over this... know that if the cops ever come to your house and intend to enter without your permission, you won't have time to start firing at them. That is exactly what they are trained for.

That's the problem. A lot of us have loaded weapons on the night stand that are ready to go as soon as you pick them up.

[tmeyer29]

^ yes. it takes less time for me to grab a gun 2 feet away from me and for them to get down the hallway, granted they go straight to my room.

[Eikon]

If you have to sleep with a loaded weapon next to your bed... you're doing it wrong. Find a new place to live.
If you are worried about the cops breaking into your house and you possibly shooting at them... you're doing it wrong.

[Dattebayo]

It is possible to get a door installed that can't be broken into, so that's all on you, bro...

It's not illegal to build a compound that police can't break into, look at all the cults that did it.

[numbnuts240]

That's the problem. A lot of us have loaded weapons on the night stand that are ready to go as soon as you pick them up.

cops don't bust down doors at 3am. there is plenty of background info obtained beforehand and plenty of planning. if you own your handguns legally, they will know that there is risk of being fired upon. stop over thinking things, the police are smarter than you.

[PoorManQ45]

cops don't bust down doors at 3am. there is plenty of background info obtained beforehand and plenty of planning. if you own your handguns legally, they will know that there is risk of being fired upon. stop over thinking things, the police are smarter than you.

That's not the problem!

What I'm saying is what if a CRIMINAL uses this tactic and claims to be police while busting down your door.

If you have to sleep with a loaded weapon next to your bed... you're doing it wrong. Find a new place to live.
If you are worried about the cops breaking into your house and you possibly shooting at them... you're doing it wrong.

First, even if you live in a "good" neighborhood, there is always that first one that gets broken into.

Second, there is no worry of the police. The point of this thread is what if a criminal breaks down the door yelling "police" and shining flashlights around. This would cause you to hesitate to defend yourself as it is a crime to fire on an officer while he/she is exerciser their job function.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Trust me, burglars don't do home invasions with flash bangs and concussion grenades. They'll bust down the door and chuck in 2 or 3 of those and rush you before you even know WTF just happened. Plus if you live in a house that has a front and rear entrance they are busting in through both. If they know you're a possible (or definite) risk of counter attack they'll rocket a couple of tear gas grenades through the windows seconds before entry.

Have you ever been exposed to a flash bang or concussion grenade in an enclosed space? Trust me, they are more than effective especially in the dead of night while you are sleeping. I've been on the receiving end a couple times during MOUNT training when I was active duty, not a fun experience even when you know it's coming.

[PoorManQ45]

According to the OP in the thread that started this there were no flash bangs or other equipment like that involved. They banged on the door, within a second or two they busted the door in and rushed in.

He claimed to be a legal gun owner.

I have never been exposed to either of those items. I suspect that they would render you useless.

*edit* for reference, the department in this instance was the FBI.

[RCA]

cops don't bust down doors at 3am. there is plenty of background info obtained beforehand and plenty of planning. if you own your handguns legally, they will know that there is risk of being fired upon. stop over thinking things, the police are smarter than you.

Not all departments have enough intel to make the best decisions. Remember that video I posted a while back where the Columbia Missouri police department raided a man's house who was a suspected big time drug dealer, shot and killed his two dogs (one a corgi and the other was a caged pitbull), traumatized his family and all they found was a small pipe with some resin in it, a grinder, less than a few grams of marijuana and a casual smoker.

Police aren't smart. They are human just like the rest of us, they just get more rights and responsibilities.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Was it a house or apartment/condo? They wouldn't use any sort of breaching equipment in and apartment complex because of concerns about law suits from other residents of the complex and concerns about possible fire risks. If a flash bang starts a fire in a single family home/dwelling during a raid they only need to deal with the occupants of that dwelling, however, if they start a fire in an apartment building, well now you have multiple occupants and the owner of said complex to deal with. See where I'm going with this?

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Have you ever been exposed to a flash bang or concussion grenade in an enclosed space? Trust me, they are more than effective especially in the dead of night while you are sleeping. I've been on the receiving end a couple times during MOUNT training when I was active duty, not a fun experience even when you know it's coming.

No, but I had a can of Tannerite detonate in a friend's garage. I had earplugs in and it was still like being hit in the head with a baseball bat and taking a syringe of Thorazine.
PMQ, quit posting after hitting your gravity bong. Your "questions" just seem like the addled thoughts of a stoner.

[zacmil]

Well assuming that everything worked out perfectly and I was able to arm myself and find some cover, I would probably announce that I had a gun and demand that the intruder provide some sort of credentials proving they were, in fact, police. If they failed to provide credentials, then I would start shooting and hope for the best. If it was the police, I would put down my gun and come quietly. Of course, that would be in an ideal situation. In reality, I'm not really scared of someone breaking down my door and barging into my house.

[LongBeachCoupe]

According to the OP in the thread that started this there were no flash bangs or other equipment like that involved. They banged on the door, within a second or two they busted the door in and rushed in.

He claimed to be a legal gun owner.

I have never been exposed to either of those items. I suspect that they would render you useless.

*edit* for reference, the department in this instance was the FBI.

Many people who are gun owners (I am a new owner in NY) dont have the conditioning to be able to respond in a situation like that.. Yeah having the gun is cool and all, but how many hours have you stood infront of the fridge dryfiring or at the range getting your muscle memory down?

If that seems like a silly question, if anyone came into your house would you be ready/able to respond accordingly?

Attended the Appleseed Project? (or something like it?)

Saying that you are prepared to defend yourself against a tactical invasion is a bold statement.

You will consistently run into issues if you contest "POLICE" being yelled... someone can always be "faking it"... this argument can be raised in a traffic stop as well.

[hannibal]

I see this being a bigger issue with no knock warrants. If they dont yell 'police', then its more likely you'll grab your gun.

There was a case in Atlanta where the police executed a no knock warrant on the wrong house. Apparently their informant gave them bad info. The house they entered belonged to a elderly lady who attempted to defend herself by grabbing her pistol. The police shot and killed her. The cops were charged and plead or were found guilty. Dont remember what their sentence was, but the city paid out a $5 million settlement to the lady's family in mid 2010.

I think entering a home without first identifying themselves as cops is a bad idea. If someone yells 'police' and kicks down your door, please dont grab a gun.

[PoorManQ45]

I think entering a home without first identifying themselves as cops is a bad idea. If someone yells 'police' and kicks down your door, please dont grab a gun.

I agree that it's not a good idea.

The point of this thread is what if it's not actually the police, but instead it's a criminal? You'd be SOL!

[Red coupe]

I don't mind at all if you feel the need to have protection, and use it in a safe and controlled manner.

Shooting before even assessing the situation is not a safe, or controlled manner. I understand that there is a need to act quickly in a situation where you would be discharging a fire arm... but there is also a need to error on the side of not shooting an innocent person with a legal right to be there.

If you feel that you are not capable of assessing the situation and identifying a clear and viable threat before letting off rounds, you REALLY need to reassess arming your self, and possible alternatives.

Arming yourself is a large responsibility. Please be honest and responsible enough to wise decisions before you kill someone for no reason.

I understand the "What if it is not the police"... but by the same token... What if it is? The likelihood of uniformed, badged person loudly announcing themselves as police actually being police is a lot higher then the alternative. Sure people may dress as cops and invade your house to immediately shoot you in the face before you have time to assess their legitimacy... But someone may also blow up your house, or get plastic surgery to look identical to your aunt so that they get close enough to stab you in the neck with a plastic toothbrush filed into a shiv. Point is yes, people can impersonate police officers... People can do a lot of things, that doesn't mean its common and just when you have one trick figured out they will bring another. Complete protection of anything, person or material, is a mirage... but its just a risk of living, you can't let fear rule your life (or drive you to needlessly end another's)