Home built alcohol injection system for a KA-T

[toki]

I'm sure Brian (WDRacing) will have his few cents to throw in with this.

Has anyone done/tried this? I'm definitly very interested in trying to put together a staight alky or water/alcohol mixture sytem. My main concern is simply what parts to use to control the flow. Are there redily available sensors what will start at x psi and increase at x rate per psi past the starting point? Is that amount controlled by directly varying pump speed, or does it use some sort of pressure regulator system?

Trying to keep it under 300, to make it cost effective against just buying a SMC enterprises or something.

[toki]

Ok. Had to go spend hours looking into this more :-\

How does a .9mm (~.035") aquamist jet paired with a 60-120psi adjustable pump sound.

Pressure switch would be a 10psi Hobbs.

I'm really kind of pulling the nozzle sizing out of my ***. All i've got to go on is a GN that ran a .045" jet boosting 15psi and would bog for a moment. I figure .035" on a KA boosting around 10 psi should be fine, especially since he was running his pump around 100psi, so there was still adjustability either way.

[WDRacing]

Basically you want a large jet that will spray an even pattern. You want to use the pump voulme to control the flow not the jets. You could use the jets, but you'd be there for days trying to get things right.

A Hobbs switch, pump, fuel line and nozzle are all you need to build a kit. The key is to use a good pump. Don't go cheap here, get one that is capable of pushing water or alcohol. Alcoho, tends to ruin the seals and corrode normal pumps, so your average pump won't work as well.

For the best system I'd go with a two stage setup. So you don't end up with a big spray at 8 psi causing the motor to bog until it leans out.

For this you need and extra jet, t-fitting, fuel line, shutoff valve and hobbs switch. Have one set to spray at say 5 psi then the next jet will start at 8-9 psi. This will let you run alot of timing and alot more boost.

The PAC injection kit or SMC kit are the best on the market. I have the SMC kit myself, only because I like need the rising rate style system.

Water will work but alcohol or methonal will work much better.

Here's a good info link...http://www.buickturbo.com/foru...id=14

Here's the PAC Kit...http://www.alkycontrol.com/?ref=turbobuick

SMC Kithttp://www.smcenterprises.com/

Steve from SMC Enterprises is one of the best guys in the bussiness to talk to and has the best customer service I've ever dealt with...EVER. He's replaced things for customers at no cost, gone through hours of telephone conversations to help with tuning. An all around good guy.

Razor from alkycontrol is probably one of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to injecting anything from propane to water.

Both are great companys and with great service.

[yelnatsch517]

Whoa, crazy. I never knew such a thing even exists. How much alcohol is used and how often does the tank need to be refilled? Also, at what point should one use this (when will it be more efficient)? Will a 300-350hp '95 240 make good use of this thingy? This sounds so interesting.

Gonna do some more readin up on it.

[MarkEmark]

I'm sure Brian (WDRacing) will have his few cents to throw in with this.

Has anyone done/tried this? I'm definitly very interested in trying to put together a staight alky or water/alcohol mixture sytem. My main concern is simply what parts to use to control the flow. Are there redily available sensors what will start at x psi and increase at x rate per psi past the starting point? Is that amount controlled by directly varying pump speed, or does it use some sort of pressure regulator system?

Trying to keep it under 300, to make it cost effective against just buying a SMC enterprises or something.

I have some pictures of my system on my website...

http://www.angelfire.com/thefo....html

My alky injection system works extremely well...I ran 9 psi the first summer I had the car turbo'd without an intercooler, only 94 octane and alky injection and it never once pinged.

The injector nozzle IMO is the most important thing because it atomizes the alcohol and determines the pattern of the spray...don't cheap out on the injector nozzle.

My nozzle is from callaway turbos, which I don't even know exists anymore....it was on use on my dad's '86 740 turbo volvo, but as the car got older he turned the boost down and no longer needed the alky injection.

Mine sources the alcohol from the windshield washer reservoir and the pump is a 1.0 gpm RV water pump that I got from Northern Tools and equipment for about $50. Mine is programmed to come on at 6.75 psi via an adjustable pressure switch but is readily adjustable...it gets the boost reading off the same vacuum T that my FPR gets its reading from....The pressure switch is made by Holley (look for NOS stuff) and simply turns on a switch which activates the pump when it sees the correct amount of boost. The pump needs to be connected to a power source, obviously....my battery is located in the trunk but it still gets its source from this. I went one step further and have another switch built in that comes on whenever the pump is on, which is connected to a tiny blue light under my boost gauge,....so I know when it's on or not.

I wish I could be more specific but my car is 90 miles away from me and I don't have any of my receipts, etc. I know the holley pressure switch is available from advance auto.

Hope that helped

[toki]

So brian you're saying have one come on at 4psi, then shut off at 9, as another larger one comes on? Or have one smaller come on then additionally another of the same size or larger (depending on boost) come on?

Alcohol should be no more 30% of the fuel you're using is a general rule of thumb.

Does anyone have a formula or way to determine cc flow from a jet sizing and the pressure going through it.

I.E. a .9mm jet with 80psi going through flows X#cc?

[WDRacing]

Have one nozzle spray at 4 or whatever psi, then the second one comes on at 9 or so but the first stays on.

The best way to tune this setup is to have the pump volume high enough to bog the motor down when it comes on. Then start to turn down the volume till it no longer bogs. This will require a rheostat from radio shack. I forgot to include this in my original list. This way you avoid using a ton of jet sizes to tune with.

I wouldn't use an RV water pump to spray alky, if the pump fails your motor will knock and you'll blow your pistons in seconds.

WD

[toki]

would there be a downside to using a pump with a built in pressure adjustment rather than a rheostat?

[WDRacing]

send me a link to the pump, but it sounds good to me. so long as you can adjust the pump volume you'll be able to tune it.

[toki]

The pump I was looking at it turns out sais not to be used with flammable liquids, and the guys who setup I got the part number off of was running 2:1 water to alky, so his mixture wasn't flammable. It was a sureflo pump though....I'll continue my search for an adjustable pump though.

[toki]

alright. I dunno whats up now. One place says the operating temperature is 110, some say as high as 170. It looks like this pump has been used by other people, but they don't say what mix if any of alky/water they use.

The main thing im looking for hear is the added octane, but at the same time, I'de like to no be adding so much fuel that I have to lean out my s-afc anymore, because im sure -30% corrections arn't going to be helping timing issues at all.

I am thinking 60/40 alky/water right now.

[Projex240]

diggin it up...

CAn anyone confirm that you can use windshield washer fliud in your alky system. Some old hotrod guy told me that it has the perfect mix of what you need.Sometimes old hot rod guys know cool tricks, and sometimes they are full of it..so i dunno..

anyone know about that?

-Josh

[WDRacing]

Yep, you can use windshield washer fluid. It's part alcohol and part water. But if your going to use that you'd be better off just using water. The alcohol in the washer fluid is just enough to keep it from freezing. It's not enough to raise octane. So the benefit would only be of the combustion cooling effect.

WD

[Redline240]

What form of alky could you use? Rubbing alky from wal-mart for under a $1 a bottle?

Redline

[toki]

you either want to run denatured (ethanol) or methonal. Hit up google for the similarities/differences between the two, I dont remember off hand.