holy cluster fu**ed motor!!!! ughhh help

[KEMP]

so i pulled the head tonight, to find a blown cometics, leaking in all cylinders and in journals.

it had peices of the gasket broken aoff in small peices around the cylinder holes of the gasket.

the cylinder walls on the inktake side have slight scoring, but only towards TDC. the pistons have slight play in them, to where i can wiggle them a slight bit.

the rings are toast, since the outside of the piston top are cleaner than the inside, or atleast thats what i was told.

i believe it was possiblt piston slapping, im not sure, there was score marks and i have no idea why, and only towards TDC stroke.

the head, ahh the head, has almost a lip around each cylinder, like an edge that should not be ther, damn near sharp, no too noticable until you feel it, but its there, i have NO idea what the hell happened, i am sooo stumped.

the head gasket on the cylinder part had peices missing, VERY small peices, and one was still attached, i could pull it off like a metal splinter, it almost sounds to me like a piston hit the head on every cylinder, but valve are five, and the pistons do not raise above the top of the block, the top ring seems to be fine, i can see slightly down the walls between the piston and wall and catch a glimps on the ring.

please help me, i have literally no idea what to do, or where to start, the people who built my motor are getting a big peice of my mind tomorrow, they failed on something so hardcore its not even funny, like literally the WHOLE motor needs redone, HG, head, block, idk what else.

where do i start? any ideas what happened

[r34 gtr]

Start by posting pictures?

[KEMP]

There is really nothin to see you have to feel it. I explained it exactly how it is. Now what caused this?

[KEMP]

there isnt really anything pictures could show honestly, the head gasket is missing VERY small peices. the scoring you cant see, you just can feel, and the lip on the head is the same way.

what could have caused this? bad engine build?

[rico05]

What bore cylinder/gasket are you running? Is there piston play all up the stroke?

[bentvalves]

dee warned you bro, running around on 25psi without supporting mods comes to mind as a possible cause -

[DALAZ_68]

dee warned you bro, running around on 25psi without supporting mods comes to mind as a possible cause -

holy stupidity batman, u have got to be kidding me...

[KEMP]

84 bore. And I can only feel it at tdc. Supporting mods? Read my sig man. Cometic was toast. I think I'll do total seal rings with a new cometic 85mm bore gasket for safety. The scoring is not severe enough to machine. Piston play is normal I think. I think det was going down the wall causing the rings to blow on that one side of the intake block side. Caused oil quenching cause of heat of det or leaky rings caused missing which increased heat towards tdc which caused scoring and blown gasket. I did mass research

[KEMP]

rad my sig! I have support mods it's gettin 870cc injectors before it goes back together then fuel will not be an issue

[r34 gtr]

Yeah I don't really call those supporting mods. A good list but not complete. I would have had at LEAST 750cc injectors in there for that pressure level on that big a turbo.

Sounds like its not all that bad though, just hone the bores, throw some total seal rings on there (the heat), slap on a new HG and torque it properly, instead of raping your gasket with WAY too much torque.

I'm one to talk though, when I went to remove my last head bolt the other week, it was on so tight my 1/2in impact wrench wouldn't do it, and it does 625ft*lbs!!

I broke a socket extension, and was only finally able to remove it with a 24" breaker bar and a 4 foot cheater bar on the end of that, and several people holding the engine down so it couldn't thwart my efforts!

[bentvalves]

dude, big top mount turbo, 440cc injectors - "25 psi felt amaazing tonight" do I need to dig up the thread?

[sjbsuperman1425]

dude, big top mount turbo, 440cc injectors - "25 psi felt amaazing tonight" do I need to dig up the thread?

live and learn right? im sure this time around he'll head the words of the experienced and wont push 25psi right out of the shoot.

btw, good luck on your engine, hope it works out for ya!

[Nali]

"This is a useless post, skip if you expect an answer"

KEMP, broke his engine?Ohh noes, i was actually hoping this was going to be one of the CA forums success stories.Well 25psi is a little reckless. Sounds like this engine is really toasted.Dont worry rebuild and this time youll know the limits of a supportless CA.

[boost_boy]

Dude, I'm sorry but the guys are right about this one in the fact that your engine is done. I can recall you running 25psi, but the CA is no 4G63 and you forgot to recognize that since you bored this thing out 84mm, you jacked the compression up some more which is another ingredient for detonation.

I'm 150% sure that the ringlands on those pistons got trashed as well, hence the slight scoring of the cylinder walls. At 84mm, start looking for a new engine and never let someone tell you to bore that much because you basically let them bore-out to the service limits of the CA. The CA is not that hard to figure out, but if you're not used to tuning them, it will be a matter of time before you get caught.

Timing and detonation is your enemy and you helped your enemy out by pushing your car/engine to limits you don't know of. I run 15psi daily on all my cars except the Hyundai and believe me, if tuned correctly, 15psi with a good turbo on a CA is madness.

Get rid of the block and start over. Welcome to the art of destroying CAs. I wasn't always successful with CA longevity, but experience is an awesome thing, so please feel free to inquire before cranking-up the boost on your new motor. You want big boost and power, don't even think about it with the stock ecu or piggybacks with the stock ecu. Again folks, timing and detonation is something that kills the CA almost instantly, regardless if you have forged pistons and stupid/massive injectors. Been there, done that, and paid dearly which is why I can build these engines and tune them with ease . Off to bed folks..........Don't be greedy unless you're ready to spend some money.

Dee

[beans33]

well said dee

[KEMP]

well the motor ran fine, and i also talke to a ASE mechanic and certifieed engine builder from my work.

he said he would pu money on it that the bottom end is fine, specially after seeing the head gasket and leaks between cylinders.

he believe that the numbers came out that way because of the leaking between cylinders, we took a glimps over the block today, the top compression ring is full intact on all cylinders and there was NO oil between the piston and wall, he believes the coloration on the piston is still from the rings seating, and said they could still not be set.

he said that i should mill the head, get a new HG and torque it down, THEN comp/leak down test it, to save the time/money of pulling the bottom end apart to find nothing is wrong, he said the scoring, is nothing major, and it mostlikey from the rings not being seated, he said the amount of scoring is well with in any standard he has placed on a motor. light enough for him to think it will practically hone its self once rings are set and completly broke in.

the head gasket was trashed, the lips on journals and cylinders for sealing on the gasket were completely smashed from previous use and was leaking in mulitple spots, with a 1inch leak between each cylinder.

the piston play he felt he said feels completly normal to him and should be something i should not even consider.

the fact is, yes the boost was too high for the amount of fuel, and he thinks it blew the gasket and broke it, before the motor ever got hurt, he literally said, good thing i stopped driving it, or those rings would be f***ed.

i have recently bought siemens 870cc injectors, which i need tuned for if anyone can help out on that end, that would be sweet, and the boost will be down until i get the fuel in and tuned.

i plan on 1bar of boost until the 870's are in.

i have learned my lesson, and am thankful(so far) that the bottom end is fine.

he also said for each cylinder to read the same leak and same compression, that 9 times out of ten, its the head gasket showing the "leak down" since the HG was toast. he also said, with 80psi of compression, and upwards of 100psi of oil in the case, that the oil will almost always win vs the compression, so he said its possible i had some blow by.

the HG looked as if it was getting combusted upon, so i will order my 85mm bore cometic tomorrow and put her in next weekend.

[boost_boy]

For the love of god man, pull those pistons out and inspect them. I have never heard of a metal h/g getting pieced-out like that. I have blown headgaskets before, but never a metal one and I have forced mad amounts of air through various engines without those kind of results. Please inspect the whole engine. I know you have faith in your ASE certified friend, but being ASE certified didn't stop you from blowing that engine and sure as hell can't guarantee you that you don't have a cracked ring land or two or four. Detonation breaks stuff and if it broke your HG, imagine what's the next component to let go .

Dee

[KEMP]

well the motor ran fine, and i also talke to a ASE mechanic and certifieed engine builder from my work.

he said he would pu money on it that the bottom end is fine, specially after seeing the head gasket and leaks between cylinders.

he believe that the numbers came out that way because of the leaking between cylinders, we took a glimps over the block today, the top compression ring is full intact on all cylinders and there was NO oil between the piston and wall, he believes the coloration on the piston is still from the rings seating, and said they could still not be set.

he said that i should mill the head, get a new HG and torque it down, THEN comp/leak down test it, to save the time/money of pulling the bottom end apart to find nothing is wrong, he said the scoring, is nothing major, and it mostlikey from the rings not being seated, he said the amount of scoring is well with in any standard he has placed on a motor. light enough for him to think it will practically hone its self once rings are set and completly broke in.

the head gasket was trashed, the lips on journals and cylinders for sealing on the gasket were completely smashed from previous use and was leaking in mulitple spots, with a 1inch leak between each cylinder.

the piston play he felt he said feels completly normal to him and should be something i should not even consider.

the fact is, yes the boost was too high for the amount of fuel, and he thinks it blew the gasket and broke it, before the motor ever got hurt, he literally said, good thing i stopped driving it, or those rings would be f***ed.

i have recently bought siemens 870cc injectors, which i need tuned for if anyone can help out on that end, that would be sweet, and the boost will be down until i get the fuel in and tuned.

i plan on 1bar of boost until the 870's are in.

i have learned my lesson, and am thankful(so far) that the bottom end is fine.

he also said for each cylinder to read the same leak and same compression, that 9 times out of ten, its the head gasket showing the "leak down" since the HG was toast. he also said, with 80psi of compression, and upwards of 100psi of oil in the case, that the oil will almost always win vs the compression, so he said its possible i had some blow by.

the HG looked as if it was getting combusted upon, so i will order my 85mm bore cometic tomorrow and put her in next weekend.

[boost_boy]

well the motor ran fine, and i also talke to a ASE mechanic and certifieed engine builder from my work.

he said he would pu money on it that the bottom end is fine, specially after seeing the head gasket and leaks between cylinders.

he believe that the numbers came out that way because of the leaking between cylinders, we took a glimps over the block today, the top compression ring is full intact on all cylinders and there was NO oil between the piston and wall, he believes the coloration on the piston is still from the rings seating, and said they could still not be set.

he said that i should mill the head, get a new HG and torque it down, THEN comp/leak down test it, to save the time/money of pulling the bottom end apart to find nothing is wrong, he said the scoring, is nothing major, and it mostlikey from the rings not being seated, he said the amount of scoring is well with in any standard he has placed on a motor. light enough for him to think it will practically hone its self once rings are set and completly broke in.

the head gasket was trashed, the lips on journals and cylinders for sealing on the gasket were completely smashed from previous use and was leaking in mulitple spots, with a 1inch leak between each cylinder.

the piston play he felt he said feels completly normal to him and should be something i should not even consider.

the fact is, yes the boost was too high for the amount of fuel, and he thinks it blew the gasket and broke it, before the motor ever got hurt, he literally said, good thing i stopped driving it, or those rings would be f***ed.

i have recently bought siemens 870cc injectors, which i need tuned for if anyone can help out on that end, that would be sweet, and the boost will be down until i get the fuel in and tuned.

i plan on 1bar of boost until the 870's are in.

i have learned my lesson, and am thankful(so far) that the bottom end is fine.

he also said for each cylinder to read the same leak and same compression, that 9 times out of ten, its the head gasket showing the "leak down" since the HG was toast. he also said, with 80psi of compression, and upwards of 100psi of oil in the case, that the oil will almost always win vs the compression, so he said its possible i had some blow by.

the HG looked as if it was getting combusted upon, so i will order my 85mm bore cometic tomorrow and put her in next weekend.

Enough said! Good luck with the rebuild..............

Dee