Hole in oil pan....what FUN!

[ardvarkus]

Hey Guys... how's it going? Been too busy for the last few months...

Anyway, noticed my oil was a bit low when I went to change it. Found a 'gash' in the oil pan- not much, but evidently *just* enough to allow some seepage. Really doesn't even drip.

How should (or can) I fix this?

Sure, drop the pan and change it. f-me...

Can I weld it in place? (Hey, gotta ask) I've got a wire feed welder with shield gas... drain all the oil, clean the 'wound', weld, buff, paint... then flush the pan to get any carbonized oil out?

Any particular concerns with using current around the engine on the other electronics?

Any thoughts? Is this really stupid?



Thanks

Adam

[DAEDALUS]

If it's not too wide, why not try filling it with RTV? Clean clean clean clean clean clean and then goop. Is the oil pan steel or aluminum?

[ardvarkus]

Whoops, forgot to mention the details: 90 Q45... l

Looks like steel-

[911/Q45]

JB Weld might work too.

[AZhitman]

I'd second the JBWeld idea - Worked great for my 2 seeping freeze plugs. (Not a bad alternative to a $600 transmission drop)

How big a job is dropping/swapping the pan?

[Q451990]

The pan swap is a major operation... it wraps back under the main cross-member that holds up the engine and ties the lower suspension arms together. When they replaced mine (due to a road hazard) it was a good 1-2 day job... had to take the A/C compressor out too.

The pan in steel - I'd try to fix it if it's not damaged too badly and the capicity hasn't changed much.

Heath

[Q45tech]

Even for the fastest expert [someone who has done at least 20] with every tool, jack, etc available it takes 2.5 hours to remove and 2.5 hours to replace with a clean brand new one.......We charge $500 [7 hours] because it takes an hour or two to clean the old one [say when removing broken guide pieces].

It is highly likely that the toe will change in the reassembly of cradle and suspension so addin an alignment!

COMMENTARY:One of the tech recently bought a 96Q [$1500] with sludged up motor, he has dropped the pan 8 times so far [the oil light comes on every 150 miles]...........we just built a oil pan with a square removeable bottom to enable the pickup cleaning for the next 50 times it would have taken........the worst sludged engine I have ever seen......those annual oil changes do it every time ......only 130k. We finally are trying to convince him his personal labor time away from family is worth $20/hour and the 35 hours he has spent trying to save the engine has already cost him $700..............in the end he will change the engine after wasting massive time and oil and oil filters. Even with the access hole 40 cleans will be $1600 and over the next 6,000 miles the bearings will be shot from starvation when the light comes on and driving it back to shop!...........Duh!

An oil pressure gauge hopefully will warn him.

By the way we are doing the 3rd Lexus ES300 engine replacement this month [already]......you would think people would learn to change their oil at $4500 per engine.

Hope springs eternal in the mind of man!

[ardvarkus]

Hey Guys-

Any input on actually WELDING IT?

(If you recall I had cross member /rack out l12 months ago doing motor mounts and don't relish a re-do...)

Looking at it, all you see is a scratch/gouge- when you examine the gouge you see an area that looks oils stained- that's the leak. Probably 1/2 qt every 2000 miles!

at 194k i use almost no oil, so when I checked and saw 1/2 qt low I was alarmed...

So may say, 'hey no big deal', but it's bugging me.

Let me know an thoughts on welding using a wirefeed arc welder.... (Dennis?)

Adam

[911/Q45]

Any welding with petroleum products in an enclosed space, ie oil pan, is asking for an explosion close to your face. You can't drain the pan thoroughly enough to have no residue. Get a plastic surgeon on retainer before you try this at home!

[maxnix]

In a discussion with the service manager at the dealer, he commented that the pick-up is very close to the bottom of the oil pan, and even a 1/4" (or maybe less) reduction in clearance can starve the engine. Q45tech can comment on this with more authority than I, and hopefully he will.

As an aside, the service manager mentioned because the pump pick-up was so close to the bottom of the pan, one could run 5½ Qts. to reduce crankcase churning of the oil. Not a proposition I intend to test.

He mentioned that on the 1990, they had the factory engineers out because there is a hill on which when the Q was idling, the oil wouldrun to the back of the pan and the crank slapping the oil would set-up a vibration. He claims over filling of oil can create these conditions on a level idling engine. Evidently, Nissan redesigned the baffles at some time, and reduced the recommended amount of oil on drain and filter changes be reduced from 6.5 Qts. to 6.0 Qts. For what it's worth.

[ardvarkus]

Any welding with petroleum products in an enclosed space, ie oil pan, is asking for an explosion close to your face. You can't drain the pan thoroughly enough to have no residue. Get a plastic surgeon on retainer before you try this at home!

So wear two welding masks?

Seriously, that is my one concern- but it will be done so quick there will likely be no time for significant vaporization of the oil to occur. (It is the vapor that explodes.) Plus, their is virtually no opening to cover, hence the ignition source is confined to the exterior of the pan.

Second concern is running the arc welder current through the vehcile. Certainly disconnect battery.. perhaps ground straps? ... clamp the welder return directly to the engine and/or pan itself?

Adam

[maxnix]

Adam,

You are going to heat one side of the oil pan enought to weld it, but the other side will stay cool enough not to vaporize any oil?

I am no expert (or novice, for that matter) in welding, but this just doesn't seem possible and may be rife with potential hazards to you and the car.

[juiceman]

You need an epoxy or something like it that is heat and hydrocarbon(oil) resistant. I would highly recommend using an external patch with the bonding agent between them

The external patch could be made of any metal but I would recommend a steel of some sort. Abrade and Clean the area well before bonding This method keeps everything out of the oil area but gives it strength.

I know this because my dad used to tow an old trailer with his 76 dodge royal monaco. Cracked his diff and put a hole in his oil pan once. Some racing redneck from the back woods of SC welded the diff and patched the oil pan. The car was last seen hauling a load of kids in NYC around 1992, so it seems that it held.

Good luck.

Agree that welding in the engine area is risky due to sparks etc and if you accidentally blow thru metal you risk sending molten metal inside the engine.

That reminds me that brazing is a possibility also, lower temp flame and pretty impervious to oil

[ardvarkus]

Well, I write down the password for NICO so next of kin can post the results....

Jus' kidding- not sure what I'll do, if anything...

A

[911/Q45]

If you do decide to arc weld, disconnect the trans and engine computers. They are in the kick panels on the driver and passenger sides.

[landtodd]

Hi Adam,

I second (third?) the JBWeld recommendation. There are plenty of two-part epoxies that are thicker/pastier -- gas-tank patch. I guess you can be pretty sure that's petroleum resistant.

BTW, the Q passed 169,000 today. Just 31K more and I join the 200K klub. That may take me 5 years as little as I drive . . .

Best regards,-Todd