Just wanted to say Merry Christmas, and Happy Chanukah, and Happy anything else you may celebrate this time of year.
I wanted to spring up a discussion that could be fun this time of year, its not completely political, but fits the Etc. part of the forum?
So how do you guys who have small children, or who have had small children, or who plan to have small children, feel about the whole Santa thing? Do you foster the childrens imagination in the completely implausible? Here are my thoughts on it below, but I want to hear what other folks have to say on it. I dont intend to go religious with it, or pander to any particular set of views other than how do you handle Santa.
So my take is, I have taught all of my children from day one, that Santa is NOT real, that he is a fun tradition, a fun story, but we leave it there. We have lots of fun, we decorate, we watch Santa movies, I'm definitely not one of these "Santa free zones" you get from some "fundies" but I dont see how encouraging belief A) in something completely implausible, and B) Something you already know to be false, to be constructive for the minds of your children. Now I know some may say other religious beliefs are completely implausible, but I can understand teaching them if you yourself believe them to be true, but teaching something that you already KNOW is NOT true as an adult, that just doesnt seem right to me. Yes I have the douchebag kids who ruin the whole thing for other parents by starting the "Santa's not real" discussions in class every year, but I dont fault them for that.
I understand where some people who encourage belief are coming from, they want to, or at least I imagine, that they want to keep their kids imagination healthy, and feel that Santa helps do this, BUT, my take is, if you want to keep an imagination strong, lets first understand what its there for. An imagination is meant to help mankind further its spoils of the natural world. To imagine something, and one day make it reality. But to bolster an imagination with false notions seems poisonous to the imagination if you ask me. I foster my children to imagine the wonders of the real world, to ponder the unknown. Maybe non of this makes sense, maybe it does, maybe I'm the one lunatic dad on the corner who ruins Christmas for everyone else, but I guess I just follow my own convictions.
I dont want to fall into the trap of saying "well the true meaning of christmas is ...." I mean if you're a christian you know it, and I dont think people who embrace Santa are doing so to replace Christ, as some "fundies" do. And Santa can be fun for any religion, its a way to enjoy the season if you dont subscribe to the original intent of the season, and thats cool. But you can also be a christian and enjoy Santa, I just wanted to clarify that. I dont want anyone to think that I think Santa is "EVIL" or anything like that, its just a choice I've made with regard to the minds of my children.
So, anyone else have anyother thoughts, anyone who's already been there, how'd it turn out?
HO HO HO!
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themadscientist
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Re: HO HO HO!
Wait, what do you mean Santa isn't real!?
I would let my kids believe it if they wanted to. There will be plenty of time to have their childhood innocence stripped from them by our, uh "culture." I'm not going to assist in the destruction of all the magic for them, the world is full of negative selfish ***holes who can't wait to.
I'm not aiming that the OP, I mean those pricks that enjoy it and I think we have all met at least one.
I would let my kids believe it if they wanted to. There will be plenty of time to have their childhood innocence stripped from them by our, uh "culture." I'm not going to assist in the destruction of all the magic for them, the world is full of negative selfish ***holes who can't wait to.
I'm not aiming that the OP, I mean those pricks that enjoy it and I think we have all met at least one.
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Bubba1
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Re: HO HO HO!
My thoughts? you're a scrooge. 
j/k There is no right or wrong answer but IMHO I think you're missing a fun opportunity with your children and the lessons that can be taught that comes with believing in Santa Claus at a tender age. You're also risking spoiling the fun for your kid's friends that believe in Santa if your kid decides to blab,which at a young age is probable.
Trust me it does them no harm to believe in Santa when they're young. Once they're old enough to truly comprehend the principles behind it, they will appreciate that it was you and mom behind it.
My view is not be in such a rush to cram reality down a young child's thoat. there's nothing wrong with using fantasy as a tool to teach youngsters good values. Perhaps you should reread the article "Yes, Virginia there is a Santa."
<parent of a grown child
j/k There is no right or wrong answer but IMHO I think you're missing a fun opportunity with your children and the lessons that can be taught that comes with believing in Santa Claus at a tender age. You're also risking spoiling the fun for your kid's friends that believe in Santa if your kid decides to blab,which at a young age is probable.Trust me it does them no harm to believe in Santa when they're young. Once they're old enough to truly comprehend the principles behind it, they will appreciate that it was you and mom behind it.
My view is not be in such a rush to cram reality down a young child's thoat. there's nothing wrong with using fantasy as a tool to teach youngsters good values. Perhaps you should reread the article "Yes, Virginia there is a Santa."
<parent of a grown child
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Cold_Zero
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Re: HO HO HO!
As an orthodox Christian and as a parent, I really have no problem with ‘Santa Claus’ (as you gringos call him) or ‘ChristKindl. To be honest, I get more of a hard time from my inlaws about participating in Halloween because of their Anabaptist background. Santa is just a thing that we quietly and politely disagree on and they do a pretty good job trying to keep their (older kids) from ruining it for the younger kids. Though I do find a pleasant irony that they have a problem with Santa but have no object to the Christmas tree (that we Central Europeans gave to them) or gift giving. I really find nothing in it that smacks in the face of our faith. We try to incorporate the story of Saint Nikolaos as he is a model for the true motivations of good works, which an underlying message of Christmas gift giving.
For my wife and I, our biggest struggle is with the utter materialism and greed that is an pervasive in this holiday. We have been trying to retool our activities to move away from some of the secular and societal practices of Christmas that exemplify this message and strike a balance between the religious meaning of Christmas and the family traditions that we grew up with. What I do find helpful ist that our church celebrates all of the church seasons so that during Advent and Epiphany we are forced to think about the up and coming holiday seasons. Christmas and Easter.
Your wrote, “An imagination is meant to help mankind further its spoils of the natural world. To imagine something, and one day make it reality. But to bolster an imagination with false notions seems poisonous to the imagination if you ask me.” I am going to go out on the limb and say that you are of the branch of Christianity that is a product of the Age of the Enlightenment. (please forgive me if this is incorrect). So I don’t find it shocking that you would hold to this view. What I find interesting is that your words make Col 3:2 hard to reconcile.
bud
For my wife and I, our biggest struggle is with the utter materialism and greed that is an pervasive in this holiday. We have been trying to retool our activities to move away from some of the secular and societal practices of Christmas that exemplify this message and strike a balance between the religious meaning of Christmas and the family traditions that we grew up with. What I do find helpful ist that our church celebrates all of the church seasons so that during Advent and Epiphany we are forced to think about the up and coming holiday seasons. Christmas and Easter.
Your wrote, “An imagination is meant to help mankind further its spoils of the natural world. To imagine something, and one day make it reality. But to bolster an imagination with false notions seems poisonous to the imagination if you ask me.” I am going to go out on the limb and say that you are of the branch of Christianity that is a product of the Age of the Enlightenment. (please forgive me if this is incorrect). So I don’t find it shocking that you would hold to this view. What I find interesting is that your words make Col 3:2 hard to reconcile.
bud
Re: HO HO HO!
Well again I wasnt intending to go the religious angle with this topic. You can certainly make a good set of arguments there, with Santa and how it seems he's been used to commercialize Christmas. Id argue it wasnt an effort to "remove Christ" but just businessmen being businessmen.
Here's where I have a big problem. I had good friends growing up in church that all lived in the same foster home. They always struggled, and never really had a Christmas. My parents or other church families would often help get them some Christmas gifts, but this really struck my heart, and as an adult now I participate in Clark's Kids here in Atlanta, where you chose a foster child, and buy some things from their Christmas list. Since having kids I make them involved, we chose kids their age, and really have a heartwarming time enjoying buying gifts for them. Its amazing you hear the normal snotty kids talk about all they want, and mine are that way quite often, but when we are doing this, they really focus in on what they want this other kid to have, and yes sometimes its stuff they want too, but I think it really does well in keeping with the real reason of the season. But I say this because I really struggled imaging a belief system in a figure who brings toys to all the good girls and boys, and reconciling that with thousands of kids around the country, and millions around the globe who get NOTHING. I imagine my kids asking "so are these kids bad, is that why Santa doesnt visit them?" Of course not, so while my kids may ruin Santa for their peers occasionally, they know what the real deal is, and are grounded in it.
Again there is not right or wrong answer to the Santa thing, and I dont begrudge anyone who embraces it with their kids, I just dont get it myself, and dont feel that I've shorted my kids in anyway by not fostering this false belief in them.
Bud, I also walked that Halloween thin line, both as a child and now as a parent, so I feel your pain. As for my faith springing from The Enlightenment, I dont know if I quite agree, but I see where you're going. You're probably not too far off in saying that, but basically I am whats known as an Apologist. I belive that the God of the Bible, the God of Christianity, is the same as "mother nature". The seemingly chaotic, random acts that we see in the universe are actually systematic architectural achievements, we just dont know all the rules to the system, and we cant see the architect. What I mean is, I guess what my central tenant is, is that if mankind was given an "ultimate understanding" of the universe, in it we would see God and all of his wisdom. I dont pretend to believe we will ever have that, at least not this side of eternity, but my goal is to get as close as possible, not to become God, and not to remove faith, but just to have a better personal understanding.
As for Col. 3:2, I dont take that to mean it quite as literally as KJV may say it. When it says "think of" I take that in more of a "worry about" or "long for" sort of way. Maybe that doesnt help to make it reconcile for you, but it does me. And what I meant by those words, is that, we know for a fact, as adults, that the Santa myth is just that, its hogwash, yet we encourage our children to believe it. Its really no different than teaching our kids in elementary school, that the world is flat, then Geography 101 suddenly says its round. We know the world isnt flat, but do we want our kids to believe it is? Just because its fun? I dont have any problem at all teaching faith and belief in the unseen or the unknown, but the difference is, with normal faith we are teaching things that we ourselves believe. But with Santa we are teaching a belief in something we know to be bogus, that doesnt compute for me. Again not knocking those who do it, just explaining why it doesnt compute for me.
Here's where I have a big problem. I had good friends growing up in church that all lived in the same foster home. They always struggled, and never really had a Christmas. My parents or other church families would often help get them some Christmas gifts, but this really struck my heart, and as an adult now I participate in Clark's Kids here in Atlanta, where you chose a foster child, and buy some things from their Christmas list. Since having kids I make them involved, we chose kids their age, and really have a heartwarming time enjoying buying gifts for them. Its amazing you hear the normal snotty kids talk about all they want, and mine are that way quite often, but when we are doing this, they really focus in on what they want this other kid to have, and yes sometimes its stuff they want too, but I think it really does well in keeping with the real reason of the season. But I say this because I really struggled imaging a belief system in a figure who brings toys to all the good girls and boys, and reconciling that with thousands of kids around the country, and millions around the globe who get NOTHING. I imagine my kids asking "so are these kids bad, is that why Santa doesnt visit them?" Of course not, so while my kids may ruin Santa for their peers occasionally, they know what the real deal is, and are grounded in it.
Again there is not right or wrong answer to the Santa thing, and I dont begrudge anyone who embraces it with their kids, I just dont get it myself, and dont feel that I've shorted my kids in anyway by not fostering this false belief in them.
Bud, I also walked that Halloween thin line, both as a child and now as a parent, so I feel your pain. As for my faith springing from The Enlightenment, I dont know if I quite agree, but I see where you're going. You're probably not too far off in saying that, but basically I am whats known as an Apologist. I belive that the God of the Bible, the God of Christianity, is the same as "mother nature". The seemingly chaotic, random acts that we see in the universe are actually systematic architectural achievements, we just dont know all the rules to the system, and we cant see the architect. What I mean is, I guess what my central tenant is, is that if mankind was given an "ultimate understanding" of the universe, in it we would see God and all of his wisdom. I dont pretend to believe we will ever have that, at least not this side of eternity, but my goal is to get as close as possible, not to become God, and not to remove faith, but just to have a better personal understanding.
As for Col. 3:2, I dont take that to mean it quite as literally as KJV may say it. When it says "think of" I take that in more of a "worry about" or "long for" sort of way. Maybe that doesnt help to make it reconcile for you, but it does me. And what I meant by those words, is that, we know for a fact, as adults, that the Santa myth is just that, its hogwash, yet we encourage our children to believe it. Its really no different than teaching our kids in elementary school, that the world is flat, then Geography 101 suddenly says its round. We know the world isnt flat, but do we want our kids to believe it is? Just because its fun? I dont have any problem at all teaching faith and belief in the unseen or the unknown, but the difference is, with normal faith we are teaching things that we ourselves believe. But with Santa we are teaching a belief in something we know to be bogus, that doesnt compute for me. Again not knocking those who do it, just explaining why it doesnt compute for me.