HLA (lifter) noise -need help diagnosing

[3rd Q]

My '90 Q with 74K just started to make what I think is a "clacking" lifter noise. Really frustrating, since this engine has been whisper quiet since I got the car at 58K. Started on just one cylinder (#1), I've been using a stethescope to pinpoint it- went away after a few days and now it's coming from the #2 cylinder. I am trying to figure out why it started and why it affects only one cylinder and what the best fix is.

It started just after I pulled the front cover for the 2nd time- had to put in some pieces left out the first time. After I started car, it ran perfectly quiet for the first 5 minutes(only the normal injector noise)- then the" tick-tick-tick "started- cadence is perfectly in time with injectors opening and closing. It's not a failing injector though since I'ved de-activated the injectors for those cylinders and still hear it.

Byron at T3 (he and Dennis and Doug are very cool,very helpful guys) said HLA's may have bled down while I had the oil drained overnight- seems to think they will pump back up with engine running. FSM says they won't. Just finished 1000 mile road trip and noise is still there. Only hear it at idle, sometimes comes and goes.

What I can't figure out is why just one cylinder affected? Why did the #1 cylinder get quiet and why did #2 start up after #1 quieted down?Does this sound like air or like a chunk of varnish got loose and is plugging a passage?

Have researched some threads but am looking for help diagnosing and fixing it.

Thanks, all!

[Jesda]

Need more info. What kind of motor oil are you currently running?

[DAEDALUS]

And what work have you done, what pieces did you leave out?

[Q45tech]

"BG Quick Clean: for engines with MOA/111 oil additive to raise zinc levels as a concurrent treatment.

[3rd Q]

Need more info. What kind of motor oil are you currently running?

Running M1 5w30. Same oil I have always used.

[3rd Q]

And what work have you done, what pieces did you leave out?

Just did chain guide replacement in December. The 2 beefy nylon guide pieces that go on the tension side bolts were left out so I opened the front cover to put them in. Also have recently done new plugs. (In addition, have done 8 new injectors, knock sensors, all plenum hoses, fuel filter, trans cooler, cleaned TB/plenum/intake, water pump and tstat, new tokicos, upper links since I've owned the car)

My guess is either they bled down and the #2 cylinders HLAs have air in them or some gunk was dislodged and is clogging a port. Did not see evidence of sludge problem when cover was off and know the history on this car- regular oil changes. If it's air, any way to bled them while they are still in the engine? Byron says you have to pull the cams to get them out of the heads.

Still can't figure out why the noise has moved from one cylinder to another.
Modified by 3rd Q at 10:07 AM 1/21/2005

[3rd Q]

What is the best way to test oil pressure. Can I buy a gauge to plug in somewhere to get an more accurate reading than the idiot light? Just want to make sure this is not a larger issue with low pressure.
Modified by 3rd Q at 10:12 AM 1/21/2005

[Q451990]

From what I understand you need to buy a threaded gauge and screw it in to the oil gauge port.

Gotta tell you, I've gotten the "tapping" a couple of time on "Q2" even down at 50-60K and it was clean enough to eat off of inside when we replaced the guides at T3.



I added a few ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil, drove it for the day and changed the oil that night... haven't heard it since. Had the same thing on "Q1" a few times and a few ounces of MMO cleared it up then too.

Heath

[3rd Q]

"BG Quick Clean: for engines with MOA/111 oil additive to raise zinc levels as a concurrent treatment.

Q45tech-What is MOA/111? Thanks

[3rd Q]

Heath and Dennis,Thanks for the advice. I'll do what you suggested and do a few quick oil change cycles with the additves and see if that takes care of it.Thanks

[elwesso]

Paul

Id recommend you go to a thicker oil. for winter use, mobil 1 0w40 is a GREAT oil... I run that in my Q, and i dont get any ticking, and it sits out when its 0 degrees outside...

You can get BG quick clean from Joe, for like $8/can or get it on ebay like I did...

Run it for 15 mins at idle or VERY gentle driving... Heath said it correctly, you need to get a threaded thing to plug into the sender hole... Actually what id like to do is get an electronic sender and a digital gauge.. One day Ill do that, and have a ultra cool gauge thing.....

[Jesda]

I had ticking and clatter with Mobil 1 10w30. No ticking with Mobil 1 5w40 and Supertech Full Synth 10w30.

[DougQ45]

Heath: How many ounces is a "few"?? I would like to try this on my 94 with 60,000 miles. Time for an oil change in a few days, but fortunately I do not have any valve clatter.

[elwesso]

you can use 1 can of BG quick clean... Quick clean would work better than MMO IMHO, but MMO is better for repeated use (less cleaning action).. If you have a fairly clean engine, youd be best off usiing quick clean, and then maintaining with MMO...

Also, isnt it true that MMO and seafoam are pretty much the same stuff.....

[Q451990]

I wouldn't use more than 1/2 can of Quick Clean the first time. Better to change the oil a few times in one day than sludge up the pick-up in the oil pan! Always use Quick Clean with fresh oil... let idle in car per directions, then immediately drain. Repeat again... I'd use something cheap for this process... Supertech oil and filter from Wal-Mart or something of that nature.

Heath

[Q451990]

Heath: How many ounces is a "few"?? I would like to try this on my 94 with 60,000 miles. Time for an oil change in a few days, but fortunately I do not have any valve clatter.

Honestly I just poured a litte in there, but I really think it's about two or three ounces at the most.

[Q45tech]

10 years of abuse [> 90 day oil changes] cannot be magically solved in one treatment! Or even a dozen.

You can often make things some better at least by cleaning the oil passages.

[texasoil]

Lots of engines have a substantial build-up of clear to light amber laquer in them from gasoline crud dropping out of the oil. When pwners look inside--'it looks clean' except it is all yellowish. CLEAN aluminum is whitish, not yellow. The laquer(varnish) will start to flake off it left in, and flakes will cause ballchecks and flat checks in HLA's and oil filters to leak back. This is why MMO is so good at nursing these engines back to better healty--it gently redissolves the laquer/varnish without causing it to craze and crack .

[Q45tech]

From not changing the oil HOT every 90 days.........as the engines get older the blowby gets worse so even more frequent oil changes are required to get the extra contaminents out.........too many let engine cool down before opening drain plug.

Varnish is tough, I once experimented on every chemical [easily available] nothing works quickly or well that is safe enough to circulate. Lots of treatments, lots of time, or total dissassembly and hot tank/baking.

Yellow/amber varnish is so much better than sludge.