High Compression ?'s

[ProdOfFL]

I originally put this in another part of NICO and got nothing...so.

I'm in the process of building an all motor monster. To give a quick run down, here's what we have so far:Crower stage 3 race cams 288 dur/112 overlapCustom Ferrea oversized valvesFerrea bucketsCrower race springs & retainersFull race port by the guys who do the Titan motorsport headsJWT adjustable cam gearsCometic head gasketARP 11 mm head studs.020 bored blockCustom Carillo rodsCustom 12.1:1 JE pistonsKing bearingsWilson Manifolds intake manifold w/ bored and matched G35 throttle body (~75mm I think)Some type of header (pacesetter long tube?)ARP main studsStill not to sure on the crank but shaved for sureAll balancedVacuum pumpNo EGRSome other MAF (which? Cobra, 300z?)2 staged 200 shot of juice (about)Big injectors (still not sure which)That's where I'm at so far. I'm looking for some info on the factory ECU being able to take that w/ a JWT re-program, a piggy back like the E-manage, or if I would have to go Stand-alone. I'm not afraid to do that, but then it comes down to which one? I've been told you can do a Mega Squirt for a quarter the cost of the AEM which is the route I was going, but I don't wanna sacrifice quality for all this dough I'm sinking in. The motor is gonna be in the works for a bit, but I wanna do it right the first time obviously. I've never seen anyone put this much effort into a KA, so....Any opinions about anything would help, cause I'm kinda at a stopping point w/ it all and I'm not too sure where to go. Any ideas or things to make sure I do when building this thing? Thanks for any insight and ideas.

This is gonna be a daily driver too.

[neverlift]

wow that is a nice build you hav egoing

I got a friend down there works at a bike shop. Anyways I think with the right stuff a stock ecu would be perfect. Just go the emulation route,it will give you realtime tuning with a laptop computer. ALOT of info at hybridka.com you should come by and check it out. What kind of gas do you plan to run?As for people putting this much into a ka its done alot for scca gt3 class.back to the ecualot has been done on stock, ecu tons of turbo builds and a few N/A like yourself.You could send off to jwt but you would have to wait for turn around when its not spot on(or an afc to fine tune the fuel. I would suggest some sort of knock detection on that comp as its close to the edge. I love it tho do it whatever you do.

[pregmantis]

sounds like a great build! Are those crower cams or brian crowers cams? I didnt know they had off the shelf cams that big in duration for our ka's? What kind of valve lift does the cams give?

I wouldnt run the 200shot but go for it!

[pregmantis]

I think you should go custom on the header or run a modified header. I have seen some stepped(altered) s&s headers, or you could run the s&s headers. I wasrunning an s&s header with a modified collector and can tell you they felt good but have nothing to compare it wit.

[ProdOfFL]

Wouldn't life be good if I could use a stock ECU? I've never heard of that. I've always been told to go big ECU when you do big motor. I guess cause you can control more parameters. I could handle knock w/ a BTM, and fine tune the fuel curve w/ an AFC (which I already have). I'd like to get more info on that kind of tuning, but I don't really know where to start. I went to the website, but there's so much there!! Where do I start? It's an awsome idea and I'd like to look into it seriously if it's a possible route.

The cams are just Crower...here's the profile I pulled from the page.

[TheOne]

wow i though all they had was 264's(stg 2) and 272's(stg 3)

eitherway i'd also look into a bikirom for tuning.

[ProdOfFL]

I guess they're new. Either way, I'm stoked and can't wait to get the thing running. It's gonna be a bit cause everytime I start making progress, I learn about something else and do that. Like the Wilson Manifold. I was gonna use an Xcessive, but then found out about this one. It's 4 times as much, but damn if it isn't the best one for what I'm doing.

[neverlift]

well just tune it with the afc and wideband, you should be able to adjust most of it out. Alot of people only use the afc. I'd preffer the afc and a custom tune but no afc atm. I bet if you call jwt and ask if they can tune your ecu they will say yes. So more then likely unless your obdII you can tune it yourself. I dont have much info on the de stuff but its all realative to one another. The de's need a duaghter board and two chips which most of the time has a switcher so you can change .bins on the go.(great thing to have)I think stock ecu tune right will be great (especialy dd) once you have the k value setup correct. The other maf might be tricky but I'm sure the vq map for whichever you choose can be found.

I do think stand alones have a benefit of map sensor input along with some having knock sensing.But hey so does a stock de ecu.

For where to start hybridka thats the place I picked all I know up(and the links on it are great too) Sorry I cant help much I only run a ka24e and would like to crack open a de ecu(maybe even run that ***** on my e for its 16bit over 8bit ecu plus it have a few more features IMO)

good luck

[ProdOfFL]

Good info bro, thanks.

[Bigvinnie]

Crower stage 3 race cams won't work with those high compression pistons...... The valve lift with the raised dish wil bend a valve.If I were you I would have GUDE weld the head for the same price, and they can get compression into the high 13:1's.

[redtop91]

Wow. That is an amazing N/A KA setup. What kind of numbers are you looking at if I may ask.

[Bigvinnie]

Why havent' you decided on Biki. For the price it seems right for all the basic applications you would want,accept for individual coils?It has endless possibilities even with minor bolt on aps....

[wankelTII]

Use the stock ecu, but i think an E-manage ultimate might be a big help. I am pretty sure you can use the Aux ports on the E-manage to run MAP sensor, hot wire AFM, and a wide band. You can even set up a pit speed limiter if you need it

[pregmantis]

welcome to the 12's all motor.

[Bigvinnie]

Any updates????We are interested............

[ProdOfFL]

This is awsome, I can't believe I'm getting so much help. I haven't really looked at the Biki. This weekend was pretty rough. Had to buy a new Radiator, so I wasn't really looking at much other than cooling. I've looked into some of the stock ECU options and there's a ton out there. The E-manage piggyback may be the best way to go cause of the Aux channels. I'll need to run a wideband, so that'll be usefull for sure. There's a guy around here that's running one on his all motor Supra w/ no problems I'm pretty sure. I'm waiting to catch up w/ him again cause I missed out this weekend. I'm looking at the JWT ecu I already have, but reprogrammed w/ the E-manage ultimate. Should work out pretty good.The cams are aggressive for sure, but my machine shop is going to flycut the pistons once he gets the head. He's going to do the assy so it has a warranty. The only problem is that Wilson wants the head for 14-16 weeks to make the one-off manifold. Then I'm sure they'll want it another month for the Nitrous plumbing. So it's gonna be a while longer than I thought. Should be running by summer. The motor should break into the 10's on the kit w/ just +500 to the crank. That's what the program says at the machine shop. Still looking at a few progressive controllers to do the trick, but Pro-Flow is looking pretty good. They're owned by Wilson and the domestic guys swear by them. They run alot bigger shots and temps than I'm gonna run, so I think I'm safe.

Once again, thanks for all the help and keep the info coming. Wanna do it right the first time, and other people's experiences are the best ways. Thanks!!

There's alot still ahead

[neverlift]

are you serious about the manifold? They should be able to do you better then that with the amount of cash your dropping. If I was you I'd find out the dimensions (or your volume) for your manifold and have your local machine shop fab one out of aluminum,you may even come out with more money for other needs. I just dont like when shops want a part for so long even the jwt ecu's take too long IMHO.

ecu that is good and affordable is megasquirt,IF you can solder its real cheap if you cant its still cheap enough. I was going that route but stumbled upon eccs tuning and think its great.(real great when you have 50 bucks and not 500 for the ms)

On the nos I dont have much help for yah. I'm scared of that girl lol

[ProdOfFL]

Nitrous is where it's at. Maybe I kick it w/ a few too many domestics, but there's to many pro's. Either way, I can do something different if I don't like it. Think what that motor would do on 10lbs of boost? I was looking at the MS too, but there's too many variables it seems w/ the forums and codes. If I could find someone that was reliable, and had the experience needed for it, I'd look into it more.As far as the mani goes....everyone I talk to says Wilson is the best. Some say the best in world. Pro race teams use them and both the machine shops I'm using swear by them. I trust the pros. Good input though. I'm still waiting on the guy from Xcessive to hit me back about how his is better in any way other than cost.

[Bigvinnie]

If you are using the stock KA24de manifold don't expect big numbers at the wheels. The stock manifold's only purpose was for a marginal power band and to keep the engine smogable. Those long runners alone are about a drop of about 20~30 peak HP (at the crank of coarse).It causes the engine to go anemic early at about 5500RPM.

[ProdOfFL]

True, and the long runner just makes it more a truck motor w/ more torque than horsepower.