hey, my junkyard/ SUPER low budget turbo project

[PeteMoss]

here is what i plan to do i have a 93 s13 dual cam ka, i am in the process of doing a super low budget turbo setup that will hopefully make more power then an aemcai and cost less also ! this may seem ghetto (well it is) but im 16 i have no money and have this turbo laying around, give me some input

turbo- KKK from VW/Audi 1.8 t i already have it, got it for free had a broken wastegate acuator but is now full functional

manifold- cast iron plumbing pipes, flanges will be most likely be cut from scratch

intercooler- VW 1.9L tdi got it free from wrecked tdi end tank has whole, will try to patch it up with some jb weld how much boost could this ghetto rig hold

charge pipes- home depot pvc plumbing pipes

MBC- home depot spec , or bleed off some boost

BOV- do i really need one, this could get pricey and a trip to the junkyard, any possible candidates

Downpipe- custom made from various exhast parts

FPR- hopefully i wont need one

exhaust- I have no idea and no $$

considering this will cost me about a hundred bucks i think it will be worth it , i forgot a boost gauge will have to get that its a must. lets hear some input on this, my other acount optiks got screwed sory for this being my 1st post dont flame

[Mikel]

On the blow off valve, look for a 1G DSM BOV, you can usually find them for about $25 on http://www.dsmtalk.com or http://www.dsmtrader.com. As for the fuel pressure regulator, my opinion is that you will in fact need one. If you can find a stock one from a 86-87 Buick Grand National, they index 1:1, meaning 1psi fuel pressure for every psi of boost. That's a start, but not ideal. Cartech makes a really nice one for about $250. http://www.cartech.net/fmu2020.htm

[PeteMoss]

hey man thanks for the input , i will be running low boost since my turbo is very tiny, so i was thinking a 2g bov im pretty sure they are cheaper

as for the FPR what is the stock one compare to the Buick one ?

also will my mas air flow, flow enough? any ohter possible replacements ? i will most likely run no air filter, the turbo is tiny

[hannibal]

I dont think the K03 will flow enough for you to worry about the MAF. That's usually good up to 250rwhp (about 7-8 psi on a T3/T4). Dont forget the little things (pipe connectors, gaskets, etc) cause they add up too. Fabrication costs some money, but it sounds like youre gonna do most of it yourself.Sorry, no insight on the Buick FPR...

[Mikel]

The stock fuel pressure regulator doesn't do anything under boost. The Buick one increases fuel pressure 1psi for every 1psi of boost. Not ideal, but a start.

The 2G BOV is plastic, I said 1G because it would be easier to attach, I don't know anyone that welds plastic

[Mikel]

And for boost controller, use a ball and spring type, not a bleeder type. About the same price, and it will spool faster. Here's a guy selling them for $35 shipped. http://www.turbobuick.com/foru...77937

[PeteMoss]

again man thanks for the input, as i sated the charge pipes will be plastic so i opted for a plastic BOV

i will try to hunt down a GN fpr

fabrication will all be done by me ill keep ya posted

[AceInhole]

he im 16 i have no money and have this turbo laying around, give me some input

My suggestion would be to wait untill you have some extra money then. The possibility is always there that you'll blow the engine... always better to have enough $$ to at least get a new engine and return everything to a running condition. Of course, if you've got a spare car and don't care about your KA, go for it.

Quote »turbo- KKK from VW/Audi 1.8 t i already have it, got it for free had a broken wastegate acuator but is now full functional[/quote] sure it's large enough?? I'm not very familiar with KKK turbo's or the VW/ Audi setup..... but it would at least be nice to know what to expect from the turbo, and how much boost the stock wg actuator is set to, or what range it's good for.

Quote »manifold- cast iron plumbing pipes, flanges will be most likely be cut from scratch[/quote] Cast iron is a pain to weld. Might be better off getting steel http://www.mcmaster.com sells weld els at decent prices. For the flange, I got mine from HotShot. Had to do it as a group buy to get em for $50 each though.... but they're 1/2" thick, which is really nice.

Quote »intercooler- VW 1.9L tdi got it free from wrecked tdi end tank has whole, will try to patch it up with some jb weld how much boost could this ghetto rig hold[/quote[ it'll hold as well as the JB Weld can.... might want to look into getting a machine shop to patching it up. If they have a person skilled at TIG welding it shouldn't be too hard/ costly.

charge pipes- home depot pvc plumbing pipes

just to let you know.... you'll be dealing with an intake charge of around 170 - 200 degrees. Maybe more, maybe less, depending on how efficient the turbo is. Get some mild steel piping. It'll probably end up being cheaper anyways. http://www.jcwhitney.com carries mild steel mandrel bent pipes. for hose connectors, try to find a commercial truck store and get some nitrile radiator hose. For adapting different sizes: cheapest is to use some exhaust pipe adaptors.

Quote »MBC- home depot spec , or bleed off some boost [/quote] I'd be more worried about your WG actuator activating at a low enough boost range to not blow your car up.

Quote »BOV- do i really need one, this could get pricey and a trip to the junkyard, any possible candidates [/quote] U don't need a BOV... just like you don't need your engine. As others stated... BOV's are cheap.

Quote »Downpipe- custom made from various exhast parts [/quote] getting a flange for the turbin outlet of my project was the hardest part of making the downpipe. I'd just use some mild steel piping rather than hacking up old exhaust parts.

Quote »FPR- hopefully i wont need one [/quote] depends on how you want to control your fuel. stock setup will last to about 4psi. Using a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, you'll NEED a good fuel pump (z32 or Walbro). I'd suggest SOMETHING to imrpove your fuel system.

Quote »exhaust- I have no idea and no $$ [/quote] you don't need an exhaust. it'd help a lot. i had my stock exhaust for quite a while after I had my turbo setup running.

Quote »considering this will cost me about a hundred bucks i think it will be worth it , i forgot a boost gauge will have to get that its a must. lets hear some input on this, my other acount optiks got screwed sory for this being my 1st post dont flame [/quote]

Some random stuff:Stock clutch is going to die at even 4psi.

I'd highly suggest some heat protection in the form of header wrap and heat blankets (http://www.summitracing.com). Melting stuff in your engine bay is not cool.

You'll also have to cap off your EGR or make a fitting for it into your downpipe.

MOST IMPORTANT THINGS:You forgot about oil lines from the block to the turbo, and an oil drain line from the turbo to the oil pan. I'd highly recommend that you drop the oil pan to drill the oil return fitting, and use the proper fittings for everything on your oil send line, or risk popping the line off, losing all your oil, and in the process: chancing an oil fire and destroying your engine's bearings.

I would have to recommend against you doing this. It doesn't sound like you plan on upgrading your fuel system at all.... and it doesn't sound like you're well prepared to build up a turbocharging system for your KA. But.... it's your car, your engine, and your $$$. FWIW: I had similar plans a long time ago.... but I never carried them out after I found out that there's a lot more involved in a turbocharging system than I had initially thought. It took me close to 2 years to plan, peice together, and build the turbo setup I have now (although, most of that time and money was spent autocrossing and building more towards handling.... ). DON'T RUSH to get that turbo on your car (not saying you are... but just giving advice).

[PeteMoss]

thanks for anylyzing everything for me i will answer some stuff for ya

the kkk k03 turbo is really small the inlet for it is about 1.5" and part that the charged air exits is the same, in a stock configuration the WG is set .4 to .9 bar depending on the car and i cant remember what mine came off of

the tdi intercooler has plastic endtanks so tig welding wont be an option

you said its better to get metal charge pipes, i will look into that, but if the charge temps are so hot i might have a problem with melting of endtanks

for now i think i will just ugrade to the buick FPR and get the stainless pipes from mcmaster, also what style manifold do you reccomend ? i was thing just a log styles 2 t's in the middle and 90 degree bends on each end

[Mikel]

For clarification, the GN FPR is not ideal, a cartech one would be the best way to go, but the GN one will add some fuel, most NA cars just basically tweak out above atmospheric pressure. A cheap alternative is looking for a used vortech FMU, check the mustang forums at http://www.corral.net

[nlzmo400r]

wow man, i thought i was ghetto, good luck and be safe, i have a feeling this will be funny (no offense) i mean funny in the sense that it mite actually work, keep us posted, how long before u think you'll have her up and running??

[PeteMoss]

the cartech would be ideal, yes but would be the most expensive part in my project, so its out of the question i dont have that kind of money

any ohter input will be great keep in mind i have a beginners liscence and im not made of money here, i blew it all on buying the car

[Mikel]

http://www.corral.net/forums/s...t=FMU

http://www.corral.net/forums/s...t=FMU

This one is sold, but a good indication of what they go for used:http://www.corral.net/forums/s...t=FMU

They come with different discs for different ratios. 4:1 would add 4 # of fuel pressure for every 1psi boost, 8:1 would add 8psi fuel for every one psi boost, etc, etc.

[tylerwal]

if i were you i would hold you on these plans, you may have enough money to ghetto rig this together but what about the added maintenance needed for a turbo car...you can't afford for anything to go wrong, and most likely something will

[4cefed]

I have to agree with AceInHole. The turbo is very small. Check out the june issue of SCC. They just did a write up on turbo matching. They even have a compressor map of your turbo in the article. It is a pretty narrow map meaning you'll probably get about 4psi in the KA before your efficiency goes to hell. The good new is your stock clutch may keep up. I have the same dillema. I'm looking at a pile of turbo dodge parts in the basement trying to figure out a way to cheeze-ball an exhaust manifold form a 2.2 turbo on my 240. Good luck at any rate.

P.S. If you know someone with a blown turbo that may suit your needs better, send it to majestic turbo, they can rebuild it for about $300. There was even some one on e-bay selling the turbine-bearing-compressor casette for a T03 for $99.

[PeteMoss]

can someone throw in some advice on ecu and how it will handle this ?

[PeteMoss]

4ceFed- thanks for the reply, im really not expacting much from this setup its either this or a 3hp intake they will both cost me roughly the same, why not do something where i will fel the gain and not just pretend that its there

[tylerwal]

but it will not cost the same, you will need a fmu, you will need a bov, you will need to have a manifold and downpipe made, you will need oil lines, etc....

a turbo can be put together on a low budget, but it sounds like you have no budget at all

[Mikel]

Yeah, it is going to cost SOME money to do this. Maybe you should put it off for a couple of months, and start collecting parts. Get the turbo, the manifold, the BOV, etc, and when you have all the parts, start putting it together.

As far as the ECU, it's MAF, so it shouldn't care at all, it doesn't matter to it whether the air is boosted or not, it just sees xxxcfm and fuels for that. Of course, there is a limit to what it can provide fuel for, and it's probably pretty low.

[oi138]

the cartech would be ideal, yes but would be the most expensive part in my project, so its out of the question i dont have that kind of money

any ohter input will be great keep in mind i have a beginners liscence and im not made of money here, i blew it all on buying the car

If you dont have 240 bucks to spend on a part. You should not turbo your car. If this is your only car or you don't have money to fix it WHEN it breaks, you should not turbo it. It's just common sense that turbo's wear your motor faster (even Corky Bell says that).

[TomsMR2]

you havent addressed fuel or timing. your car WILL blow up.

[PeteMoss]

guys comon, this isint whether i should or shouldent do this.is there any other way to get around the fmu?

[oi138]

Bigger injectors is the only other way. Which then you have to have something to control them. ie. jwt ecu, apex-i safc, etc. That is definatly the more expensive route but still the best.

[hannibal]

The FMU is the cheapest way to accomplish your goal.You can save money by buying used parts and doing some fabrication yourself, but you still need to have all of the components (cant do without the some kinda fuel mods). If you cant afford all the pieces, save up and buy a few at a time. If you can afford the pieces (even used/cheap/homemade parts), then I say go for it.

Basically, spec out a complete system and then see where you can save money. I think its unrealistic to think this can be done for under $100. But you should be able to pull it off with just a couple hundred bucks. If you do, you get the Budget Build award!!

Best of luck,Jay

[PeteMoss]

thanks for the reply, i will slowy start peicing this together i have about 350-400 canadian to spend. i will try to get a used fmu as i see it is a must .

the ecu. nothing has to be changed ? it wont go into safemode or anything

also what type of ex. manifolds you guys using log style or tube style

[TomsMR2]

i think logs are good for ~300hp.. its soo much easier/cheaper to make too.

larger injectors will be really rich at off-boost/idle.. it'll probably run like ***. just get a FMU man. half assing to save money will end up costing you MORE money later. if you're too broke to do it.. then dont. save till you can do it safely.

getting the turbo on is the easy part. tuning is whats difficult.

[CireNow]

PeteMoss,

A turbo out of car that is only 1.8L will never ever work. It will not flow enough air. At best it won't blow up your engine. At worse it will ....... It will not create any boost. You are wasting time and money. Do better research. If you want a junk yard turbo find one that matches your car. I think Dodge had a 2.4L turbo'd engine. Look into that.

CireNow

[Mikel]

i think logs are good for ~300hp.. its soo much easier/cheaper to make too.

I would imagine a log style manifold would support higher than that. Not to say it doesn't matter at all, but manifolding design has little influence on power output on a turbo car, at least from what I have seen.

A lot of the "XXX manifold only supports XXX horsepower" translates directly to "Buy our YYY manifold for only $500 more, it will support YYY horsepower".

[Mikel]

PeteMoss,

A turbo out of car that is only 1.8L will never ever work. It will not flow enough air. At best it won't blow up your engine. At worse it will ....... It will not create any boost. You are wasting time and money. Do better research. If you want a junk yard turbo find one that matches your car. I think Dodge had a 2.4L turbo'd engine. Look into that.

CireNow

It will make boost, it will also just heat the air to the point of instanity and probably not last very long at the shaft speeds you would be asking of it.

Pete:

Assuming a 6000rpm redline and 90% efficiency (about right for a relatively modern DOHC motor, probably just a little optimistic), the KA needs ~225cfm of airflow naturally aspirated.

To find out the airflow needs including boost pressure, use this equation.

14.7 + (boost pressure in psi) / 14.7 then multiply the result times 225.

For instance, for 1 bar (14.7psi) it would be 14.7 + 14.7 / 14.7 = 2. 225 x 2 = 450cfm at a pressure ratio of 2.0. Now go read compressor maps and see what you need

Also, to convert from CFM to lb/hr, multiply by .069.

[PeteMoss]

hey guys thanks for the help, good news i think im getting a deal on a vortech 12:1 fmu

here i s a ko3 map someone wanna help me out ?