Here to save you lots of time and money ... please read

[Zebrahead]

I'd say the majority of people on this board own stock, or very close to stock vehicles, whether they be 240sx's, infinitis, or whatever ya'll own that post here. And I'd like to share a little epiphany I've had in the past week about modifying cars.

All or nothing.

If you don't have the money, don't modify your car. Period. I've seen countless posts of people asking "What exhaust will give me the most power?", "which intake is best?", "will I run a 15 on a budget of $1000?". I've now realized how trivial all the questions are to the big picture. Your car will NOT be fast unless you go the whole nine yards. Buying and intake/exhaust/header setup will cost you at least $1000, and how much horsepower will you gain? Five to the wheels, maybe. I realized this when I sold my HKS Hiper exhuast yesterday. When I put on their stock exhaust onto my s13, and drove it, I saw NO performance drop. The car still is just as fast as it used to be. How much was the exhaust? $500. I spent $500 for such a marginal gain (if any), it makes me crazy that I just lost $250 by selling something I should have NEVER bought in the first place.

If you want your car to be fast, save up your paychecks. Save your tips. Put that change in your piggy back. Save it all, and look to the future. Save for an sr20, save for a turbo kit, etc. When you spend that $4k, and you can tell people you have an sr20 in your car, you will feel so happy, proud and accomplished, you'll laugh at yourself for asking "how much horsepower does this exhaust add comparing to this one" on a stock motor. You'll see hondas and acuras with thousands put into them with nothing more to show that a .3 second decrease in their quarter mile time and you'll just laugh.

You will be the one new car owners will look up to and admire. You'll set an example of the person that didn't give in to the stupid, usless sh** like body kits and headers. If you're building a car for all show, all the power to you. But don't claim your car is fast, or you'll get flamed.

All or nothing, people. If one person reads this post and decides to save up and later buys an sr, or a turbo, than my work here is done. Resist the urge to blow that $1000 you've saved; look ahead and tell yourself what you'll have if you just wait a little longer. You won't regret it.

Nick.

[Cyberkreig]

I would like to agree totaly with what you are saying here, but I would like to go one further. Dont simply save up for a budget motor swap, or a budget turbo kit. (i did a budget SR swap)

I kick my self in the azz every single day for not saving money and doing things right to begin with. I've spent an extra 1k easily replacing things (transmission, clutch, flywheel, coilpacks, MAF) if I had simply saved up the money to buy the motor and all the goodies to begin with, i would have actualy saved money.

nothing wrong with wanting your car to be faster/look better. But there is something wrong with half-assin a project. I had to learn the hard, and expensive way.

[Zebrahead]

Well put. I assumed a $4k dollar swap budget would accomodate for a good quality setup (at least one that wouldn't break), but I guess I was wrong. But my point remains the same and agrees with what you say; all or nothing.

Nick.

[UncleBen]

I still have mautring to do, big deal. I live with my parents, I'm in high school, have a job, have no bills because I paid cash for my car and don't pay insurance because I paid for my car, so what do I have to spend my money on? Junk?? Yes. Food, movies, crap like that. Who cares about that stuff? Because I still live with my parents (i'm only 17) I dont have to worry about food or bills (except cell phone, hehe). I might as well spend my money on my car. Either that or I could save it all. That is a good thing to do, but I do save. I save for months and months at a time to for stuff to buy for my car Yes, I am that guy that says "Ha ha, My car looks better than theirs" or "My car will eventually be faster then that car" because thats just how i am. I have grown up loving cars, and nothing but them. Call it an infatuation, an obsession, whatever. You will be correct in whatever you call it. Cars are in my blood, I can't help it. So, while I still can, I am going to spend my money on my car, making it faster and meaner. Until I just have to stop, I'm not going to.

[UncleBen]

By the way, I'm the guy that is learning the hard way also. I have the Injen Intake (waste of money). My exhaust will help later on when i boost, but the intake was useless. I haven't bought much of anything else that was a waste (suspension and brakes aren't a waste). So, I'm glad i caught myself early.

[Zebrahead]

"My car will eventually be faster then that car"

If its a civic, its probably faster already. Haha. Seriously, though. I don't have any problem with spending money on your car. But how do you plan to have a fast car if you keep spending your money on clear corners, and exhausts that will be too small for turbo application, intakes that don't fit turbo's and other stuff like that? My opinion is that its all just a waste of money if you want to have a fast car. Why not just save your money and quit planning to have fast car because you'll already HAVE one? The older you get, the more bills and responsibilities your resposible for. At your age, its REALLY easy to save money. I say save while you still can.

Nick.

[MaineExport]

Or you could just drop down $500 on an N2O kit and actually BE faster than any of those who dropped $1000 on I/H/E.... a LOT faster!!! Of course.... 5 bills for N2O will only get you a half-assed kit that might grenade your engine... but hey... it's gonna be just as fast as a $2000 nitro job... at least for as long as your engine is alive.

[TrueSlide]

Not everyone is looking for a super fast car, some ppl are only looking for something alittle better then stock.

[UncleBen]

Yea I see what you are saying Nick i really do. I realize the stuff like clear sidemarkers and stuff are a waste, but everyonce and a while you just get in the mood to spend money. not alot, but, just to buy something. the sidemarkers were 35 bucks. no biggie. exhaust, yes the piping might be too small, but it will do the job for a while. 2.5" piping isnt' the best piping for turbo app. cars, but it will definately be better than the stock size. I have a while to think about it anyway.

[UncleBen]

My intake i didnt' pay for anyway. it was a bday present. I got the intake when i first got on NICO (240sx.org back then) so i wasn't thinking about turbo and stuff then. I just wanted it to have a lil more power, better sound, better look.

[Cyberkreig]

95silvia. I do see your side of it, anyone that just wants a little nicer than stock, a touch hear, a touch there, i'd have to say that My point, and probably Z's dont really apply to someone that is doing what your doing.

But for anyone on here that has 'big' plans.. listen to what we have to say. the bit-by-bit unplanned project is a quick way to loose money.

For reference, I am 20, life at home, and Have $150 a month in bills. So i know where your comming from.

[574-240sx]

i have to agree totally thats one of the reasons i sold my civic. Right now on my 240 i have been through problem after problem. My car is currently stock other than a lightened flywheel. I converted from auto to manual on a budget of less than $250, which was a must. Now, i am ready to buy some much needed tires and store the car for the up coming fall/winter and start saving for a turbo kit. Nick

[UncleBen]

I have big plans, no doubt. But, they aren't in the very near future. I want to get my 5spd in first!!!! After it is done, and I have some new tires and maybe a little more suspension work done, I'll start to save for the BIG stuff.

[240marcuSX]

I think it all comes down to why you came into this hobby in the first place. I came into this because I really had never gone all out on anything, Ive never really put down all my effort into one project until i was satisfied. But thats the thing about modifying cars. Its never supposed to end, unless your filthy, filthy rich. theres always going to be something new to buy, some new techinique, new style, new techniques.

Seriously, sit down and price out anything that you can think of to buy for your car. if youre serious, it should be well over 20k maybe 30k. then, plus if something breaks, you have to replace it. thats why it P(#@$ me off when i see underbody glow kits, and APC stickers. because the people who buy these items seriously think that there is some kind of recognition for owning things like that.

Also, i dont believe that it is neccesarily "all or nothing." I think that you should do everything that you possibly can for what youre going to use the car for, Drifting, Drag Racing, Road Racing, Auto Crossing. etc... for all the ricers out there, believe it or not, there are more things to purchase than muffler tips, shift knobs and other shiny perephanalia. all i can say is thank god that nissan guys are rad(at least the ones ive talked to here), and not @#!($ like honda guys(that i know). Im glad that they stopped making the beloved 240sx 5 years ago, can you imagine if they had a 2003 model 240sx that had a factory performance package of exterior badges and spoilers??

I cant imagine buying a car that had already been modified. because its not your work, I dont care haw fast it is. theres very little pride in that. you have to put your own work into it for it to be truly yours. And i think that an upgraded exhaust is a fine thing to purchase and have, but only if you plan on doing other mods. its be pretty silly to see an sr20det flowing through a stock exhaust wouldn't it??

as long as you do things right the first time, no half-***, no cheap parts. then youre ok in my book (if that counts for something).

and please, !@#$)@)(!@$ dont rice out nissans, its pains us all.(sorry its so long):D

[Just another 240]

all i bought was a filter and hoooked onto the plastic pipe..and i bet ya it works the same way!

[JESTER]

As always, I have to add my 2 cents. I agree with Zebra 100%. The only car I know where you do the header, full exhaust, and intake and see any real gains is the rotarys. (Of course that is a whole lot different than the 4 cylinders we are talking about.)

IMO all that is good for on a stock car is the sound. And 500 plus is a lot for a sound. That money could be spent on suspension upgrads. Which should be the first thing we upgrade, anyway.

But Maine had a good point. You can get a decent kit for a little better than 500 and bust mustangs all day long. Could blow it up, thou.

[UncleBen]

Probably. I wish I had done that now. But when I got the intake, as I said, I was young into the 240 scene

[Nathan]

One thing I should add...don't save up your money and then get hooked into a deal that sounds too good to be true...no matter how believable the guy is that is selling it to you. nomore_mr2 goes and sells me his engine which is totally built then tells me he can get me the rest of the parts I need "at cost" and I'll be able to have 500hp, well I say I'm only shooting for 300 and he offers to hook me up with an Apexi Power FC, HKS GT2540, HKS FMIC, the works...everything I'd need to lay down some serious power. Do you know how much that turbo sells for new? 2300 in the US, I should have told him he was full of bull**** considering he said he could get me ALL of that for 2400 dollars (the engine was 1700) Now I'm stuck in a big situation and it's going to take like a month at least to get all my money back from the Credit Card company. If a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is...cover your ***, buy it from a real brick and mortar company, and make sure you some serious recourse against any problems. I know I will never buy another engine that I cant look at IN person and pick up IN person, it's just not worth the potential hassle. If you think for one innstant you might have gotten yourself into a shady deal, get out before it's too late, dont get suckered because it really ruins a summer.

[SmithSR]

buy it from a real brick and mortar company. I know I will never buy another engine that I cant look at IN person and pick up IN person.

Very well said. Too many people take this for granted. For instance, if a website says a part will fit/add hp/attract females, kids with credit cards jump on it like flies on stink... I find this most noticeable with wheels bought/sold online. You can't test fit wheels, can't see a bent or out of round wheel, you just really don't know what you're gettin into until the stuff is on your doorstep. You can apply this to just about any sight-unseen buying scenario, but people tend to ignore warnings until they too have been fooled. Not talkin about you Nathan, just a generalization.

There is no substitute for doing business the old fashioned way... in person.

[AZhitman]

Nick: Best post I've read on 240 Gen in a LONG time. You've amassed a lot of wisdom, my friend.

I'd add this: Instead of taking a $2K car and dumping $5K or more into it in mods and improvements (and then having a car that's STILL worth $2K), consider saving all that $$$ and buying a car that was fast from the factory and still new enough to be warranteed. You'd be surprised how fast cars depreciate, then you can get 'em for a song.

My 95Q45t runs mid-to-high 15's out of the box with nearly 300hp, has Bose audio, leather, moonroof, power seats/steering adjustments, remote everything, amenities galore, and is attractive, quiet, comfortable and reliable...

Sticker price was $54,300. I paid $13K, AND have a 40K mile warranty.

[chrispy]

i dunno i see working on the car as the goodtime. If i weanted to go insanely fast I wouldn't spend tons of money of car parts but rather drive a motorcycle.

[Meantime]

Sticker price was $54,300. I paid $13K, AND have a 40K mile warranty.

Were you negotiating at gunpoint or something, to swing a killer deal like that?

And I was so proud I finegaled my Z28 for $500 over invoice.

[maxpower]

a lot of this is common knowledge, but we simply choose not to accept and just follow the bling

[Radian]

i dunno i see working on the car as the goodtime. If i weanted to go insanely fast I wouldn't spend tons of money of car parts but rather drive a motorcycle.

EXACTLY.That is what I do. When I bought my 240 guys w/ hondas were all 'so you gonna turbo/exhausts/suspention/blahblah to it'I was like 'why, so I can dump 5k into a car worth 3k and then sell it for 4k (maybe) two years down the road-and still have a car that is 1/4 the rush of my bike? No dude, I got a bike if I wanna go fast"

That's just me though. I do like AZhitman's philosphy. Investigate how much it would cost to hop up the 240 to a level you want, and see what stock car you could getfor the same $$$.

[lessthanjakejohn]

ie a 97 Corvette, Yum Yum

but I think that working on a beat up car is half the fun if you have the money

[Onizuka]

i work on my car because i want something that is difforent from everything else on the road and is fun to work on. I need my car to have my own personal twist to its styling and performance.

[chrispy]

but I think that working on a beat up car is half the fun if you have the money

not so much the money, but time.

[lessthanjakejohn]

you have to have the tools, and you have to have the supplies to make it any fun.

[Onizuka]

you have to have the tools, and you have to have the supplies to make it any fun.

all i have is a K-mart tool set and i have tons-o-fun

[corn322]

tools are for loosers. if I can't get a nut or bolt out with my fingers, I use my teeth.